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MPs vote to reject no-deal Brexit

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ASPartOfMe
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13 Mar 2019, 3:38 pm

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Theresa May said there was a "clear majority" against a no-deal Brexit but the "legal default" was that the UK would leave without a deal on 29 March if no deal is reached.
MPs will now get a vote on delaying Brexit, said the prime minister.
That vote will take place on Thursday, and if it is passed - and the EU agrees to it - the UK will not leave the EU as planned on 29 March.
Mrs May said there could be a short delay to implement a deal agreed in the next few days, or a longer delay if no agreement is reached.

The government tabled a motion to prevent the UK from exiting the EU on 29 March without a withdrawal agreement.
But before MPs voted on that, they backed an amendment tabled by Labour's Yvette Cooper rejecting a no-deal Brexit under any circumstances - by just four votes.

This dramatic development led to the government ordering Conservative MPs to vote against its own motion.
But the government motion, as amended, was passed by 321 votes to 278, reinforcing the message that MPs do not want to leave without a deal.

Some ministers, who are against a no-deal Brexit, abstained on the vote, which would normally mean they would have to quit the government.

MPs also voted by 374 to 164 to reject a plan to delay the UK's departure from the EU until 22 May 2019, so that there can be what its supporters call a "managed no-deal" Brexit.


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Prometheus18
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13 Mar 2019, 3:42 pm

This was the intention all along: delay, delay, delay, until the elites find a way to keep us in the sordid Union by stealth. This is a complete betrayal of the electorate and I'll never vote Conservative again.



JohnPowell
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13 Mar 2019, 3:58 pm

Prometheus18 wrote:
This was the intention all along: delay, delay, delay, until the elites find a way to keep us in the sordid Union by stealth. This is a complete betrayal of the electorate and I'll never vote Conservative again.


I've been saying we aren't allowed to leave for years. May is a crook.


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Prometheus18
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13 Mar 2019, 4:56 pm

May is just a figurehead; I actually quite like her on a personal level. The issue here is the serious big business interests involved; the likes of Goldman Sachs, Deutsche Bank, Barclays, JP Morgan Chase, Airbus etc. absolutely love the EU, which is understandable given that they control it. It's these types of guys that will be the prime movers here.



cyberdad
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14 Mar 2019, 2:57 am

What happened to Nigel Farage?

He caused this Brexit mayhem and then crawled back under the rock he originally came from...



Biscuitman
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14 Mar 2019, 3:35 am

As I said on the UK Politics thread, last night was real high drama like we have rarely seen before in the Commons, and as someone who loves parliamentary procedure it was just spectacular.

Spelman trying to pul her own amendment but Cooper not allowing it, May voting for no deal against her own motion, members of the Cabinet abstaining from the vote completely. It was absolute chaos last night, delicious chaos.

Last night makes a no deal brexit now extremely difficult to reach, though not impossible, and with May strongly suggesting she will just bring back the Meaningful Vote again in identical fashion next week I think you will find a number of ERG members showing their lack of backbone and falling in line with her.

If she is allowed to run MV3 (procedure is for the Speaker to reject the re running of a heavily defeated motion, but these are not not normal times) then she will get closer to winning. How close though we will have to wait and see.

Pressure will be on the AG from within his own party to make another statement and try and alleviate the ERG & DUP fears



Wolfram87
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14 Mar 2019, 8:14 am

cyberdad wrote:
What happened to Nigel Farage?

He caused this Brexit mayhem and then crawled back under the rock he originally came from...


Didn't he start a new party or something?


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Biscuitman
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14 Mar 2019, 8:17 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
What happened to Nigel Farage?

He caused this Brexit mayhem and then crawled back under the rock he originally came from...


Didn't he start a new party or something?


yesterday he was publicly begging foreign governments to reject the will of British parliament



BeaArthur
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14 Mar 2019, 8:55 am

I don't understand the parliamentary system at all. To me, as an ill-informed American, it looks like a bunch of hoity toity MPs shouting at each other, and banging desks. I love those sessions where "members" shoot "questions" at the PM - those questions are phrased as questions, but delivered as comments. "Will the Prime Minister explain why ____ and ___ while ____?"

I said to my husband "Europe should just kick them out."

Obviously, there's a lot of geopolitics that I just don't get.


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Prometheus18
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14 Mar 2019, 9:01 am

Biscuitman wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
What happened to Nigel Farage?

He caused this Brexit mayhem and then crawled back under the rock he originally came from...


Didn't he start a new party or something?


yesterday he was publicly begging foreign governments to reject the will of British parliament


Which is a whole lot better than Big Business begging parliament to reject the will of the British people in a decision parliament put to them.

To be honest, I'd actually agree that Nigel Farage has betrayed himself as a deeply ignoble man over the past few years in his pusillanimous retreat from his duties as figurehead of the Brexit movement, though I can sort of understand why - he's been repeatedly threatened, and probably also bought, by Remain. I'd much rather see Mr Rees-Mogg coordinating the Brexit campaign at this point, though, given his elite background, I don't entirely trust him not to have secret Remain sympathies, either.

I think this is the deeper psychological motive driving a lot of Remainers, though presumably not all of them - a need to side with the cause of the rich and powerful over the just cause, the logic being that this might gain them brownie points as it were. I think this is a mistake; Big Business doesn't give a damn about the "Little Guy", whether he voted to give them control of his country or not.



Biscuitman
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14 Mar 2019, 9:21 am

Prometheus18 wrote:
[Which is a whole lot better than Big Business begging parliament to reject the will of the British people in a decision parliament put to them


Not sure what you mean about Big Buisness begging parliament. If you mean companies making statements about their own future well-being then that is what I would expect companies to do tbh, they will lok out for themselves. I don't see that as even on the same scale as one person going to powerful people in foreign governments and pleading with them to reject the will of British parliament.

Prometheus18 wrote:
I'd much rather see Mr Rees-Mogg coordinating the Brexit campaign at this point


He is one of the major reasons why Brexit has failed so far. If Brexit is to work then it needs to be balanced and needs to take everyone into account. Mogg is idealogical about it and wants his extreme version and nothing else will do. that will fail, it was quite clearly always destined to once you look at the numbers. If one of todays amendments passes then we are into the territory of balanced brexit with indicative voting



Biscuitman
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14 Mar 2019, 9:33 am

BeaArthur wrote:
I don't understand the parliamentary system at all. To me, as an ill-informed American, it looks like a bunch of hoity toity MPs shouting at each other, and banging desks. I love those sessions where "members" shoot "questions" at the PM - those questions are phrased as questions, but delivered as comments. "Will the Prime Minister explain why ____ and ___ while ____?"

I said to my husband "Europe should just kick them out."

Obviously, there's a lot of geopolitics that I just don't get.


I must admit I love parliamentary procedures, the history of it all, the mechanics. I find it fascinating.

When they are debating in the House of Commons they are doing so through the speaker, so they are addressing him

Last night was one of the most dramatic political Commons moments for a long time. Watching them voting, while amendments are made to change the motion, whipping of MP's is being changed during the process, the TV will have commentary over it while their people are also down near the Commons getting updates from MP's. It's better than any tv drama series! :D

Cleeeear the lobby!! !



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14 Mar 2019, 11:40 am

Biscuitman wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
What happened to Nigel Farage?

He caused this Brexit mayhem and then crawled back under the rock he originally came from...


Didn't he start a new party or something?


yesterday he was publicly begging foreign governments to reject the will of British parliament


To implement the decision of the British people.


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JohnPowell
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14 Mar 2019, 11:41 am

Biscuitman wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
[Which is a whole lot better than Big Business begging parliament to reject the will of the British people in a decision parliament put to them


Not sure what you mean about Big Buisness begging parliament. If you mean companies making statements about their own future well-being then that is what I would expect companies to do tbh, they will lok out for themselves. I don't see that as even on the same scale as one person going to powerful people in foreign governments and pleading with them to reject the will of British parliament.

Prometheus18 wrote:
I'd much rather see Mr Rees-Mogg coordinating the Brexit campaign at this point


He is one of the major reasons why Brexit has failed so far. If Brexit is to work then it needs to be balanced and needs to take everyone into account. Mogg is idealogical about it and wants his extreme version and nothing else will do. that will fail, it was quite clearly always destined to once you look at the numbers. If one of todays amendments passes then we are into the territory of balanced brexit with indicative voting


Complete tripe. The reason it has failed is because a bunch of remainers have created a 'deal' that keeps us tied to the EU forever.


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BeaArthur
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14 Mar 2019, 12:04 pm

Biscuitman wrote:
I must admit I love parliamentary procedures, the history of it all, the mechanics. I find it fascinating.

When they are debating in the House of Commons they are doing so through the speaker, so they are addressing him

Last night was one of the most dramatic political Commons moments for a long time. Watching them voting, while amendments are made to change the motion, whipping of MP's is being changed during the process, the TV will have commentary over it while their people are also down near the Commons getting updates from MP's. It's better than any tv drama series! :D

Cleeeear the lobby!! !

Thank you for attempting to educate me, but I fear I might not be educable. It's as foreign to me as cricket or soccer (footie, to you).

On the other hand, spouse and I follow American politics with relish, and do find it surpasses any sporting event for sheer excitement. We are participant observers, laughing loudly at any downfall of someone we dislike, and yelling back at the tv when we have found someone's speeches (or tweets!) particularly butt-headed.


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Biscuitman
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14 Mar 2019, 12:14 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Biscuitman wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
[Which is a whole lot better than Big Business begging parliament to reject the will of the British people in a decision parliament put to them


Not sure what you mean about Big Buisness begging parliament. If you mean companies making statements about their own future well-being then that is what I would expect companies to do tbh, they will lok out for themselves. I don't see that as even on the same scale as one person going to powerful people in foreign governments and pleading with them to reject the will of British parliament.

Prometheus18 wrote:
I'd much rather see Mr Rees-Mogg coordinating the Brexit campaign at this point


He is one of the major reasons why Brexit has failed so far. If Brexit is to work then it needs to be balanced and needs to take everyone into account. Mogg is idealogical about it and wants his extreme version and nothing else will do. that will fail, it was quite clearly always destined to once you look at the numbers. If one of todays amendments passes then we are into the territory of balanced brexit with indicative voting


Complete tripe. The reason it has failed is because a bunch of remainers have created a 'deal' that keeps us tied to the EU forever.


Utter garbage. There are many reasons why it hasn't gone well but you have shown time and time again that all you can do is angrily throw insults at people that hold a different political view to you.