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Transgender Powerlifter Shatters World Records

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VegetableMan
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02 May 2019, 12:01 pm

Utter insanity! Letting males who have transitioned into females compete in woman's sports should be viewed in the same way as taking performance enhancing substances.


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02 May 2019, 12:07 pm

What about giantism?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantism

You suggest banning people who have odd conditions because the condition gives them an advantage?

Image


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VegetableMan
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02 May 2019, 12:23 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
What about giantism?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantism

You suggest banning people who have odd conditions because the condition gives them an advantage?

Image


Ah, come on, that's not a fair comparison at all. But I don't think you were being serious.


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02 May 2019, 12:36 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Ah, come on, that's not a fair comparison at all. But I don't think you were being serious.

It's very similar, in both giantism and transgenderism, a person is exposed to hormones that cause the person to gain supposed said advantage.


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naturalplastic
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02 May 2019, 12:40 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Utter insanity! Letting males who have transitioned into females compete in woman's sports should be viewed in the same way as taking performance enhancing substances.



Yes. In fact that very thing was common in the Olympics for Soviet Bloc countries in the cold war era. Russia packing its team with "women" who were XXY (genetically inter gender).



VegetableMan
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02 May 2019, 12:47 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Ah, come on, that's not a fair comparison at all. But I don't think you were being serious.

It's very similar, in both giantism and transgenderism, a person is exposed to hormones that cause the person to gain supposed said advantage.


I spoke before considering that. You're right. It's an unfair advantage in either case.


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02 May 2019, 1:27 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
It's an unfair advantage in either case.

Surely some kind of phenotypic advantage, whether physical or cognitive, is likely to be present in any high-performing athlete (or in any other vocation.) I'm not denying that dedication and training have a huge part to play too, but the idea that there can be a level playing-field in innate characteristics is surely a fallacy whatever the event. Should players over a certain height be barred from playing basketball because they have an "unfair advantage"? Swimmers with particularly large hands and feet? Chess players who have especially good memories for abstract patterns? At what point does an innate advantage become "unfair"?

If edge-of-your-seat, close-run competition is the kind of excitement people are looking for, wouldn't some kind of seeding be a more objective way to categorise participants?

(And, yes, I'm playing devil's advocate a bit there! But in my defence, I find other people's interest in competitive sport very perplexing - yet fascinating.)


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BaronHarkonnen85
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02 May 2019, 1:30 pm

It's clearly unfair to women competing in these events.

It is scientific fact that, in general, biological males are stronger than females.

It is clearly unfair to allow biological men to compete against biological women in a women's event.


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02 May 2019, 1:36 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
What about giantism?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantism

You suggest banning people who have odd conditions because the condition gives them an advantage?

Image


In what sense did Andre the Giant have an advantage because of his size? Pro Wrestling isn't a competition.


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02 May 2019, 1:50 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:
In what sense did Andre the Giant have an advantage because of his size? Pro Wrestling isn't a competition.

So it's just a strange coincidence that big guys become wrestlers?

How many guys can lift 6'5 350 pound men over their heads?

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02 May 2019, 2:00 pm

If the show concept is big burly dudes pretending to fight eachother for show, then the question is only really "are you a big burly dude?", not "how much bigger and burlier than the other big burly dudes are you?". His size gave him advantage compared to average people when it came to getting picked up to pretend to fight other burly dudes, but since it's not actuallty a competition it gave him no advantage in terms of competing.


As for the gif, yes, they're very good at their stuff. It looks quite convincing. Though notice Andre's right hand; he's helping out with the lifting.


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02 May 2019, 2:20 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
What about giantism?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantism

You suggest banning people who have odd conditions because the condition gives them an advantage?

Image


First off...that article is about 'giGANTism', which is not the same thing as 'giantism' ( I suppose that it could be considered a subset of giantism).

Second- In most sports they don't allow "performance enhancing drugs" like steroids. If its naturally occurring in a person from birth they may allow it. But they don't allow a normal athlete to just start artificially using steroids.

Third: the athlete in question did NOT get extra strength "from hormones". The person got extra strength by having the more robust skeleton and more more robust musculature of the more robust gender they were born as (male) but was competing against the less robust gender (females)in a female only competition. So ofcourse the person would have an unfair advantage. If the person wants to be recognized socially as a "female" that would be fine with me. But when they do their competitive weightlifting they should not be against female only competition. I don't mind calling her "she", but she should try going for a male record if she wants wants my applause.



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02 May 2019, 4:07 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
First off...that article is about 'giGANTism', which is not the same thing as 'giantism' ( I suppose that it could be considered a subset of giantism).

Wiki suggests it is …

"Gigantism, also known as giantism …."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantism

naturalplastic wrote:
Second- In most sports they don't allow "performance enhancing drugs" like steroids. If its naturally occurring in a person from birth they may allow it. But they don't allow a normal athlete to just start artificially using steroids.

It is naturally occurring for transgender people.

This woman athlete had the misfortune of being naturally being exposed to male hormones.

naturalplastic wrote:
Third: the athlete in question did NOT get extra strength "from hormones".

Andre supposedly got big because of "growth hormone".

"Gigantism, also known as giantism (from Greek γίγας, gígas, "giant", plural γίγαντες, gígantes), is a condition characterized by excessive growth and height significantly above average. In humans, this condition is caused by over-production of growth hormone in childhood resulting in people 7 to 9 ft (2.1 to 2.7 m) in height".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantism


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02 May 2019, 4:16 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
First off...that article is about 'giGANTism', which is not the same thing as 'giantism' ( I suppose that it could be considered a subset of giantism).

Wiki suggests it is …

"Gigantism, also known as giantism …."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantism

naturalplastic wrote:
Second- In most sports they don't allow "performance enhancing drugs" like steroids. If its naturally occurring in a person from birth they may allow it. But they don't allow a normal athlete to just start artificially using steroids.

It is naturally occurring for transgender people.

naturalplastic wrote:
Third: the athlete in question did NOT get extra strength "from hormones".

Andre supposedly got big because of "growth hormone".

"Gigantism, also known as giantism (from Greek γίγας, gígas, "giant", plural γίγαντες, gígantes), is a condition characterized by excessive growth and height significantly above average. In humans, this condition is caused by over-production of growth hormone in childhood resulting in people 7 to 9 ft (2.1 to 2.7 m) in height".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantism


The "athlete in question" is not Andre the Giant, but Mary McGregor (the wieghlifter the OP is talking about).

Mary McGregor did not get extra strength from hormones, but from being born with a male build.



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02 May 2019, 4:17 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
The "athlete in question" is not Andre the Giant, but Mary McGregor (the wieghlifter the OP is talking about).

Mary McGregor did not get extra strength from hormones, but from being born with a male build.

Mary McGregor had the misfortune of being naturally exposed to male hormones.

Those male hormones caused the "male build".


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naturalplastic
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02 May 2019, 4:27 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
The "athlete in question" is not Andre the Giant, but Mary McGregor (the wieghlifter the OP is talking about).

Mary McGregor did not get extra strength from hormones, but from being born with a male build.

Mary McGregor had the misfortune of being naturally exposed to male hormones.

Those male hormones caused the "male build".


So..?

Then she should compete with male weight lifters.