Nike pulls sneakers with ‘Betsy Ross’ American flag

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Misslizard
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08 Jul 2019, 9:46 am

EzraS wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
All this stupid squabbling over an old flag distracts from the real issues of racism.Like not getting hired for a job because of your color or getting shot in the back by a gun ho cop.


I agree so why is it necessary to make African Americans also feel uncomfortable by flying reminders of slavery in their faces?

People usually don’t have their faces at shoe level.I have never heard any one of any color complain about that flag.I doubt anyone cared till now.
Some of those shoes sold before they were pulled, so how many people of color bought a pair before they were informed that old Betsy sewed a hate rag?I suppose we ought to burn and ban all Mark Twain next?He used the N in his literature.
Ridiculous that people are even worried about a stupid overpriced sweatshop sneaker.They should be more concerned with sheltering the homeless,helping the underprivileged get a good education or other things that really matter.


Mark Twain has already been banned many places.

That is just sad.


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EzraS
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08 Jul 2019, 12:36 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
it would be hard to ban the star of David as it's also a religious symbol in hinduism

The swastica is also a religious symbol and it is banned in may places. It was hard to ban, it took a World War.



Ironically there is a Hindu religious emblem that has a swastika shape inside a Star of David shape.

Image



Persephone29
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08 Jul 2019, 2:07 pm

EzraS wrote:
I wonder what would have happened if he give the girl and her mother season tickets or something like that. Perhaps an act of generosity towrds those who wrong you shames them better and is an action likely to win applause.



That's something to ponder. Maybe they would've been ashamed of themselves instead. I'm sure they left with a feeling of righteous anger. Which would be unfortunate, since it was a prime opportunity to show them what civility really looks like.


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Persephone29
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08 Jul 2019, 2:14 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
There must be a better way. And I think that is time spent in the company of multiple races.

Well, yes, that's one aspect of what the fight for school integration is all about. That's a battle still far from completely won, alas. See:

- There’s a Generational Shift in the Debate Over Busing by Matthew Delmont, The Atlantic, July 1, 2019.
- The Lasting Legacy of the Busing Crisis by Matthew Delmont, The Atlantic, March 29, 2016.



Maybe in the eyes of those who still want to see an element of segregation. I'm currently raising one of my grandkids, she's got all sorts of friends now. But one year she had a neighbor and they loved to play together. Her father put an end to it because my granddaughter was not black. It was so sad, they both cried. That man should be ashamed of himself, his wife said, 'that's her friend!" She wasn't racist, but he was very racist.
And I have always told her that if she brings home a flop, I don't care what color he is, get rid of him. But if she brings home a guy with goals, good character, I don't care what color he is, hang on to him.
I think we have a ways to go, on both sides. I also think we're doing okay too.

With regard to the articles, the only thing that would make me pull my kids would be if they were getting beaten up. Otherwise, don't care bout color. We can help fill in the gaps with her education needs.


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Mona Pereth
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08 Jul 2019, 3:24 pm

Shrapnel wrote:
What the Betsy Ross Flag really represents is a group of rich, malcontent British subjects who refused to pay their fair share to King George, so they fled the empire.

No, the American Revolution represented the interests of a lot more people than just a few rich men. Many American colonists, of all classes, were being harassed by British authorities for the sake of tariff enforcement and anti-smuggling enforcement -- very similar to police harassment of all too many African-Americans today. See: Policing the Colony: From the American Revolution to Ferguson by Chris Hayes, The Nation, March 29, 2017.

By the way, the analogies drawn in the above article suggest to me a possible way to reclaim the Betsy Ross flag back from the racists:

Give greater publicity to the parallels discussed in the above-linked article between British treatment of the American colonists and recent American police treatment of the black community, thereby tying the positive aspects of the American Revolutionary heritage to contemporary causes like police reform and drug law reform. This could help white Americans better understand and sympathize with the need for criminal justice reform of various kinds. In the process, the Betsy Ross flag could then become a symbol of the defense of all Americans today, including and especially African-Americans, against abuse of police power.


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cyberdad
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09 Jul 2019, 3:40 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
it would be hard to ban the star of David as it's also a religious symbol in hinduism

The swastica is also a religious symbol and it is banned in may places. It was hard to ban, it took a World War.

This is actually not applied when used in religious symbolism like the one Ezra posted.

I have seen motor vehicles with swatikas but there's ways to tell it's not the Nazi version. Ironically the Nazi version is also symbolic of the wheel of samsara which is represents the beginningless cycle of repeated birth, mundane existence and dying again...

The star of David was a symbol of the south Indian god Murugan who is also symbolised by carrying a trident.

Many of monotheistic religions born in the middle east have ancient roots.



cyberdad
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09 Jul 2019, 3:59 am

Persephone29 wrote:
[
That is sad. I know for myself, I don't enjoy hearing stories like that. I very much believe in addressing something immediately, as Goodes did when called an 'ape.' He was able to punish her and her mother, because of her actions. Do you really think that's a solid plan? Or, is it just the next best alternative to changing someone's heart? A measure of justice? It would seem so, but I have my doubts over time.


EzraS wrote:
I wonder what would have happened if he give the girl and her mother season tickets or something like that. Perhaps an act of generosity towrds those who wrong you shames them better and is an action likely to win applause.


The girl was asked to ring Goodes and apologise over the phone (not in person). Goodes said he was in shock that after achieving some of the highest accolades in Australian rules football nationally that a 13 yr old girl could call him an ape.

The public however weren't sensitive to Goode's feelings and all they saw was a young child being evicted in front of thousands of spectators by 3-4 police officers. The newspapers published pictures of an angry mother and the rest is history. The crowd took Goodes reaction to the girl as cowardly and booed him incessantly every match he played.

In retrospect Goodes should probably been more conciliatory since it was a child, I think he was just hurt that despite his years of hard work and being awarded "Australian of the Year" all people thought of him was a monkey.



EzraS
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09 Jul 2019, 4:03 am

I am not sure how one young teenager saying something equals all a people. Perhaps also if she was a fan of the other team she hated him for winning so much.



cyberdad
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09 Jul 2019, 4:18 am

EzraS wrote:
I am not sure how one young teenager saying something equals all a people. Perhaps also if she was a fan of the other team she hated him for winning so much.

Probably...I think it also reflects people hate it when sportsmen drag in politics into sport...



EzraS
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09 Jul 2019, 4:29 am

From what I read the girl had just turned 13 five days before the incident and was a Collingwood Magpies supporter. That does not justify her of course. But I know people can get overly carried away with sports to the point of ugliness and kids that age can be naive. I will say a kid that age calling me a retard would be a lot different to me than if an adult did it.



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09 Jul 2019, 7:34 am

As an aside, I did some investigation a while back on the genetics it would take to produce the specific characteristics of Australian aboriginal people. Is it true that they have some Indian (from India) DNA, Cyberdad? They are the most beautiful color. Also, certain Africans have a couple really dark variants of skin color that are quite striking. I never really understood the problem. I absolutely admire differences. The people with the cocoa and blue undertones are the most beautiful. There are a few of today's female models showing off these attributes.


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naturalplastic
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09 Jul 2019, 8:04 am

Persephone29 wrote:
As an aside, I did some investigation a while back on the genetics it would take to produce the specific characteristics of Australian aboriginal people. Is it true that they have some Indian (from India) DNA, Cyberdad? They are the most beautiful color. Also, certain Africans have a couple really dark variants of skin color that are quite striking. I never really understood the problem. I absolutely admire differences. The people with the cocoa and blue undertones are the most beautiful. There are a few of today's female models showing off these attributes.


This is REALLY "aside".

What does this have to do with Betsy Ross, and Nike shoes?



ASPartOfMe
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09 Jul 2019, 8:19 am

cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
it would be hard to ban the star of David as it's also a religious symbol in hinduism

The swastica is also a religious symbol and it is banned in may places. It was hard to ban, it took a World War.

This is actually not applied when used in religious symbolism like the one Ezra posted.

I have seen motor vehicles with swatikas but there's ways to tell it's not the Nazi version. Ironically the Nazi version is also symbolic of the wheel of samsara which is represents the beginningless cycle of repeated birth, mundane existence and dying again...

The star of David was a symbol of the south Indian god Murugan who is also symbolised by carrying a trident.

Many of monotheistic religions born in the middle east have ancient roots.

How it was applied, or is applied by other cultures does not matter to these modern day censors. All that matters is
1. That it was applied somewhere, someplace in an offensive manner
2. That it originated from an earlier time when racist attitudes and actions were casual and widespread
3. That the person or persons who created it expressed an opinion deemed offensive
4. That it looks like a known offensive symbol
If it meets any of the above it has got to go, it is not a matter for debate, and if you disagree you are racist, check your privilege(shut up).


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09 Jul 2019, 10:43 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
As an aside, I did some investigation a while back on the genetics it would take to produce the specific characteristics of Australian aboriginal people. Is it true that they have some Indian (from India) DNA, Cyberdad? They are the most beautiful color. Also, certain Africans have a couple really dark variants of skin color that are quite striking. I never really understood the problem. I absolutely admire differences. The people with the cocoa and blue undertones are the most beautiful. There are a few of today's female models showing off these attributes.


This is REALLY "aside".

What does this have to do with Betsy Ross, and Nike shoes?


Isn't the topic is really about race and racism?



kraftiekortie
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09 Jul 2019, 10:49 am

It's about people getting offended by the "Betsy Ross" flag. So much so that Nike pulled sneakers which had the Betsy Ross flag symbolism.



naturalplastic
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09 Jul 2019, 11:38 am

EzraS wrote:
Something just occurred to me. Isn't our national anthem, The Star Spangled Banner, about that flag?

Edit: Appearntly not.


Actually no.

The Star Spangled Banner was written during the War of 1812, and not during the earlier Revolutionary War. We had already added two states to the original 13 colonies by that time (Vermont, and Kentucky). So the flag had 15 stars, and they were no longer arranged in that circular pattern, but in an oblong pattern, like today's flag.