Nike pulls sneakers with ‘Betsy Ross’ American flag

Page 14 of 16 [ 231 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16  Next

Persephone29
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Jun 2019
Age: 52
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,731
Location: Everville

08 Jul 2019, 2:14 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
There must be a better way. And I think that is time spent in the company of multiple races.

Well, yes, that's one aspect of what the fight for school integration is all about. That's a battle still far from completely won, alas. See:

- There’s a Generational Shift in the Debate Over Busing by Matthew Delmont, The Atlantic, July 1, 2019.
- The Lasting Legacy of the Busing Crisis by Matthew Delmont, The Atlantic, March 29, 2016.



Maybe in the eyes of those who still want to see an element of segregation. I'm currently raising one of my grandkids, she's got all sorts of friends now. But one year she had a neighbor and they loved to play together. Her father put an end to it because my granddaughter was not black. It was so sad, they both cried. That man should be ashamed of himself, his wife said, 'that's her friend!" She wasn't racist, but he was very racist.
And I have always told her that if she brings home a flop, I don't care what color he is, get rid of him. But if she brings home a guy with goals, good character, I don't care what color he is, hang on to him.
I think we have a ways to go, on both sides. I also think we're doing okay too.

With regard to the articles, the only thing that would make me pull my kids would be if they were getting beaten up. Otherwise, don't care bout color. We can help fill in the gaps with her education needs.


_________________
Disagreeing with you doesn't mean I hate you, it just means we disagree.


Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Age: 61
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,287
Location: New York City (Queens)

08 Jul 2019, 3:24 pm

Shrapnel wrote:
What the Betsy Ross Flag really represents is a group of rich, malcontent British subjects who refused to pay their fair share to King George, so they fled the empire.

No, the American Revolution represented the interests of a lot more people than just a few rich men. Many American colonists, of all classes, were being harassed by British authorities for the sake of tariff enforcement and anti-smuggling enforcement -- very similar to police harassment of all too many African-Americans today. See: Policing the Colony: From the American Revolution to Ferguson by Chris Hayes, The Nation, March 29, 2017.

By the way, the analogies drawn in the above article suggest to me a possible way to reclaim the Betsy Ross flag back from the racists:

Give greater publicity to the parallels discussed in the above-linked article between British treatment of the American colonists and recent American police treatment of the black community, thereby tying the positive aspects of the American Revolutionary heritage to contemporary causes like police reform and drug law reform. This could help white Americans better understand and sympathize with the need for criminal justice reform of various kinds. In the process, the Betsy Ross flag could then become a symbol of the defense of all Americans today, including and especially African-Americans, against abuse of police power.


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- My life as one of the many belatedly-diagnosed autistic older people.
- Queens discussion group on Meetup.com.


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,667

09 Jul 2019, 3:40 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
it would be hard to ban the star of David as it's also a religious symbol in hinduism

The swastica is also a religious symbol and it is banned in may places. It was hard to ban, it took a World War.

This is actually not applied when used in religious symbolism like the one Ezra posted.

I have seen motor vehicles with swatikas but there's ways to tell it's not the Nazi version. Ironically the Nazi version is also symbolic of the wheel of samsara which is represents the beginningless cycle of repeated birth, mundane existence and dying again...

The star of David was a symbol of the south Indian god Murugan who is also symbolised by carrying a trident.

Many of monotheistic religions born in the middle east have ancient roots.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,667

09 Jul 2019, 3:59 am

Persephone29 wrote:
[
That is sad. I know for myself, I don't enjoy hearing stories like that. I very much believe in addressing something immediately, as Goodes did when called an 'ape.' He was able to punish her and her mother, because of her actions. Do you really think that's a solid plan? Or, is it just the next best alternative to changing someone's heart? A measure of justice? It would seem so, but I have my doubts over time.


EzraS wrote:
I wonder what would have happened if he give the girl and her mother season tickets or something like that. Perhaps an act of generosity towrds those who wrong you shames them better and is an action likely to win applause.


The girl was asked to ring Goodes and apologise over the phone (not in person). Goodes said he was in shock that after achieving some of the highest accolades in Australian rules football nationally that a 13 yr old girl could call him an ape.

The public however weren't sensitive to Goode's feelings and all they saw was a young child being evicted in front of thousands of spectators by 3-4 police officers. The newspapers published pictures of an angry mother and the rest is history. The crowd took Goodes reaction to the girl as cowardly and booed him incessantly every match he played.

In retrospect Goodes should probably been more conciliatory since it was a child, I think he was just hurt that despite his years of hard work and being awarded "Australian of the Year" all people thought of him was a monkey.



EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

09 Jul 2019, 4:03 am

I am not sure how one young teenager saying something equals all a people. Perhaps also if she was a fan of the other team she hated him for winning so much.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,667

09 Jul 2019, 4:18 am

EzraS wrote:
I am not sure how one young teenager saying something equals all a people. Perhaps also if she was a fan of the other team she hated him for winning so much.

Probably...I think it also reflects people hate it when sportsmen drag in politics into sport...



EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

09 Jul 2019, 4:29 am

From what I read the girl had just turned 13 five days before the incident and was a Collingwood Magpies supporter. That does not justify her of course. But I know people can get overly carried away with sports to the point of ugliness and kids that age can be naive. I will say a kid that age calling me a retard would be a lot different to me than if an adult did it.



Persephone29
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Jun 2019
Age: 52
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,731
Location: Everville

09 Jul 2019, 7:34 am

As an aside, I did some investigation a while back on the genetics it would take to produce the specific characteristics of Australian aboriginal people. Is it true that they have some Indian (from India) DNA, Cyberdad? They are the most beautiful color. Also, certain Africans have a couple really dark variants of skin color that are quite striking. I never really understood the problem. I absolutely admire differences. The people with the cocoa and blue undertones are the most beautiful. There are a few of today's female models showing off these attributes.


_________________
Disagreeing with you doesn't mean I hate you, it just means we disagree.


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,929
Location: temperate zone

09 Jul 2019, 8:04 am

Persephone29 wrote:
As an aside, I did some investigation a while back on the genetics it would take to produce the specific characteristics of Australian aboriginal people. Is it true that they have some Indian (from India) DNA, Cyberdad? They are the most beautiful color. Also, certain Africans have a couple really dark variants of skin color that are quite striking. I never really understood the problem. I absolutely admire differences. The people with the cocoa and blue undertones are the most beautiful. There are a few of today's female models showing off these attributes.


This is REALLY "aside".

What does this have to do with Betsy Ross, and Nike shoes?



ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 21,465
Location: Long Island, New York

09 Jul 2019, 8:19 am

cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
it would be hard to ban the star of David as it's also a religious symbol in hinduism

The swastica is also a religious symbol and it is banned in may places. It was hard to ban, it took a World War.

This is actually not applied when used in religious symbolism like the one Ezra posted.

I have seen motor vehicles with swatikas but there's ways to tell it's not the Nazi version. Ironically the Nazi version is also symbolic of the wheel of samsara which is represents the beginningless cycle of repeated birth, mundane existence and dying again...

The star of David was a symbol of the south Indian god Murugan who is also symbolised by carrying a trident.

Many of monotheistic religions born in the middle east have ancient roots.

How it was applied, or is applied by other cultures does not matter to these modern day censors. All that matters is
1. That it was applied somewhere, someplace in an offensive manner
2. That it originated from an earlier time when racist attitudes and actions were casual and widespread
3. That the person or persons who created it expressed an opinion deemed offensive
4. That it looks like a known offensive symbol
If it meets any of the above it has got to go, it is not a matter for debate, and if you disagree you are racist, check your privilege(shut up).


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person. - Sara Luterman


EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

09 Jul 2019, 10:43 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
As an aside, I did some investigation a while back on the genetics it would take to produce the specific characteristics of Australian aboriginal people. Is it true that they have some Indian (from India) DNA, Cyberdad? They are the most beautiful color. Also, certain Africans have a couple really dark variants of skin color that are quite striking. I never really understood the problem. I absolutely admire differences. The people with the cocoa and blue undertones are the most beautiful. There are a few of today's female models showing off these attributes.


This is REALLY "aside".

What does this have to do with Betsy Ross, and Nike shoes?


Isn't the topic is really about race and racism?



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 68,513
Location: Queens, NYC

09 Jul 2019, 10:49 am

It's about people getting offended by the "Betsy Ross" flag. So much so that Nike pulled sneakers which had the Betsy Ross flag symbolism.



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,929
Location: temperate zone

09 Jul 2019, 11:38 am

EzraS wrote:
Something just occurred to me. Isn't our national anthem, The Star Spangled Banner, about that flag?

Edit: Appearntly not.


Actually no.

The Star Spangled Banner was written during the War of 1812, and not during the earlier Revolutionary War. We had already added two states to the original 13 colonies by that time (Vermont, and Kentucky). So the flag had 15 stars, and they were no longer arranged in that circular pattern, but in an oblong pattern, like today's flag.



VegetableMan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,270
Location: Illinois

09 Jul 2019, 11:51 am

naturalplastic wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Something just occurred to me. Isn't our national anthem, The Star Spangled Banner, about that flag?

Edit: Appearntly not.


Actually no.

The Star Spangled Banner was written during the War of 1812, and not during the earlier Revolutionary War. We had already added two states to the original 13 colonies by that time (Vermont, and Kentucky). So the flag had 15 stars, and they were no longer arranged in that circular pattern, but in an oblong pattern, like today's flag.


There were 18 states in 1812. Tennessee became the 16 state in 1796. The other two I can't think of off the top of my head.


_________________
If you embrace your inner child any harder, you'll suffocate the little bastard!


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,929
Location: temperate zone

09 Jul 2019, 12:17 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Something just occurred to me. Isn't our national anthem, The Star Spangled Banner, about that flag?

Edit: Appearntly not.


Actually no.

The Star Spangled Banner was written during the War of 1812, and not during the earlier Revolutionary War. We had already added two states to the original 13 colonies by that time (Vermont, and Kentucky). So the flag had 15 stars, and they were no longer arranged in that circular pattern, but in an oblong pattern, like today's flag.


There were 18 states in 1812. Tennessee became the 16 state in 1796. The other two I can't think of off the top of my head.


Ohio, and Louisiana.

Yeah. I knew that.

Duhhh.

I went to an "History of theAmerican flag site" just then when I should have checked the "when the states were admitted to the union" site.

Ever since childhood here in the DC area I have seen THEEEE "Flag of Fort McHenry" (the giant flag on display in the Smithsonian) with the cannon ball hole in it. It is the same flag that flew over the fort when FSK wrote the SSB. And I knew it had a lot more 13, and more than 15 stars.