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JohnPowell
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04 Jul 2019, 2:22 pm

I'm not defending the murderer, I'm explaining the reality of what happened. These dangerous left wing thugs need to be made an example of as well and the police need to be held responsible for just sitting back.


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Persephone29
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04 Jul 2019, 2:59 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
If you're that closed minded where you make your mind before listening to the content, without knowing nothing about the people, then there's no point of your engaging in this thread.


Yes, when someone defends those who are obsessed with hate, and who want America's future to be one of
mass deportations of those with the wrong skin color, or who practice the wrong religion, or who want to physically attack someone for who they love, then I am closed minded. Especially when such persons lie about the senseless murder of a heroic young woman, I am indeed closed minded.


There's never a good time to be close minded. I don't know much about what happened outside of the nuts and bolts of it, but if how things unfolded is being disputed I want to analyze it objectively. Or at least concede that there might possibly be more to it than I've heard about.


Yep, and thanks for the adult response. Please listen to the video and give thoughts. Both have been residents of Charlottesville. We have to remember that the same media lying about this also lied about that MAGA kid with the hat and tried to make out that him smiling was evil Nazism. But the media got caught out with their lies there. Some people just see Nazis everywhere but didn't have a problem when Neo Nazis violently removed an elected leader in Ukraine for the Obama regime.


Nazis hardly represented all, or even most, of the Anti-Russian revolution who removed Putin's puppet. Besides, what does that have to do with what happened in Charlottesville?
You say you have a problem with Nazis in Ukraine, but not in America. Why?


Why do you keep REPEATING the same garbage points that I dealt with only a week or so ago. The ELECTED leader was elected by the people of Ukraine. The irony of you crowing about fake Nazis and supporting US backed neo Nazis in Ukraine removing that leader by violence is just beyond a joke. There are no "Nazis", they died off in 1945.



It is expedient to use the term, "Nazi." That's the extent of the thought behind the use of the term Nazi today.

The Nazis of the Jewish Holocaust:

1. First identified and ostracized the Jews.
2. Made them wear the star of David
3. Shut down or stole their businesses and absorbed their wealth (money, homes, etc)
4. Moved them to ghettos
5. Moved them to concentration camps
6. Killed the ones least fit to work
7. Worked the fit ones to death
8. Experimented on them
9. When the war ended, they had no country, no where to go.
10. In 1948 Israel was resurrected so the Jews would have a land of their own.

There is no Nazi party on this planet, or the UN would be involved. That is huge part of why the UN was created, so that no other human rights violations such as this would ever occur again.

I expected to find more regimented autists on this page. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the ones who throw out terms and catch phrases when they do not match up with the definitions history has outlined for us.

The man in Charlottesville might not be an aberration, I'm sure there are others in this country who are just as full of hate and willing to do harm to someone based on color, nationality, etc... But, they will meet resistance. This behavior will not be adopted by the country and put into action by the government, as it was in Germany. Hence, it doesn't meet the definition or comparison of "Nazi." It is a convenient catch-phrase to stir easy outrage by lazy protesters who really don't know what they stand for either. Because if the opponent doesn't meet the definition of a Nazi, or a fascist (I went over the tenets of fascism in another thread, I'm not going to do it again here), then the protesters cannot be ANTIFA. And if you aren't ANTIFA, what are you?

That's a scary question and a helluva deep subject. I propose that they are mob mentality and nothing more.


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Fnord
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04 Jul 2019, 3:14 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
I'm not defending the murderer, I'm explaining the reality of what happened...
Your "explanation" is a feeble attempt to justify a murder and place the blame on the victim.

Nothing justifies the murderer's actions. Accept it and deal with it.


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Kraichgauer
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04 Jul 2019, 3:16 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
If you're that closed minded where you make your mind before listening to the content, without knowing nothing about the people, then there's no point of your engaging in this thread.


Yes, when someone defends those who are obsessed with hate, and who want America's future to be one of
mass deportations of those with the wrong skin color, or who practice the wrong religion, or who want to physically attack someone for who they love, then I am closed minded. Especially when such persons lie about the senseless murder of a heroic young woman, I am indeed closed minded.


There's never a good time to be close minded. I don't know much about what happened outside of the nuts and bolts of it, but if how things unfolded is being disputed I want to analyze it objectively. Or at least concede that there might possibly be more to it than I've heard about.


Yep, and thanks for the adult response. Please listen to the video and give thoughts. Both have been residents of Charlottesville. We have to remember that the same media lying about this also lied about that MAGA kid with the hat and tried to make out that him smiling was evil Nazism. But the media got caught out with their lies there. Some people just see Nazis everywhere but didn't have a problem when Neo Nazis violently removed an elected leader in Ukraine for the Obama regime.


Nazis hardly represented all, or even most, of the Anti-Russian revolution who removed Putin's puppet. Besides, what does that have to do with what happened in Charlottesville?
You say you have a problem with Nazis in Ukraine, but not in America. Why?


Why do you keep REPEATING the same garbage points that I dealt with only a week or so ago. The ELECTED leader was elected by the people of Ukraine. The irony of you crowing about fake Nazis and supporting US backed neo Nazis in Ukraine removing that leader by violence is just beyond a joke. There are no "Nazis", they died off in 1945.


That so called elected leader of Ukraine was a Putin puppet, installed by Russian intelligence through election tampering.
Those weren't real Nazis at the Unite The Right rally? Funny, they believe the exact same things.
It's convenient for you right wingers to deny that there haven't been Nazis since 1945. There definitely have been, and are.
I keep repeating it because you're wrong.


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Kraichgauer
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04 Jul 2019, 3:20 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
If you're that closed minded where you make your mind before listening to the content, without knowing nothing about the people, then there's no point of your engaging in this thread.


Yes, when someone defends those who are obsessed with hate, and who want America's future to be one of
mass deportations of those with the wrong skin color, or who practice the wrong religion, or who want to physically attack someone for who they love, then I am closed minded. Especially when such persons lie about the senseless murder of a heroic young woman, I am indeed closed minded.


There's never a good time to be close minded. I don't know much about what happened outside of the nuts and bolts of it, but if how things unfolded is being disputed I want to analyze it objectively. Or at least concede that there might possibly be more to it than I've heard about.


What is there to dispute? A s**tbag Nazi decided to run his car into a crowd of counter protesters, murdering a young woman.
How is it wrong to be closed minded against dehumanizing hate and prejudice?


I do not know what there is to dispute because I have not watched the video or performed any other in depth examination of the sequence of events.

A few days ago there was a deliberate vehicular homicide here in Washington in Seattle. I figure this will get very little attention and very few people on the internet will express upset and outrage over it.

I think most people really do not care all that much when someone is purposely run down. They will maybe read the story, say that's awful and then move onto something else.

I think this situation is being politicized I think the extreme level of protracted outrage and sorrow being displayed boils down to anti-trumpism. I think if Heather Heyer had been run down at some other time and place, I would not be hearing any more about it than the recent vehicular homicide in Seattle.


That's right, Heather Heyer's death would have been forgotten in less than a day if she was run down anywhere else. But she's remembered still today because she was murdered by a piece of sh*t white supremacist for fighting against the hate he and his friends espoused.


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04 Jul 2019, 3:24 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
If you're that closed minded where you make your mind before listening to the content, without knowing nothing about the people, then there's no point of your engaging in this thread.


Yes, when someone defends those who are obsessed with hate, and who want America's future to be one of
mass deportations of those with the wrong skin color, or who practice the wrong religion, or who want to physically attack someone for who they love, then I am closed minded. Especially when such persons lie about the senseless murder of a heroic young woman, I am indeed closed minded.


There's never a good time to be close minded. I don't know much about what happened outside of the nuts and bolts of it, but if how things unfolded is being disputed I want to analyze it objectively. Or at least concede that there might possibly be more to it than I've heard about.


Yep, and thanks for the adult response. Please listen to the video and give thoughts. Both have been residents of Charlottesville. We have to remember that the same media lying about this also lied about that MAGA kid with the hat and tried to make out that him smiling was evil Nazism. But the media got caught out with their lies there. Some people just see Nazis everywhere but didn't have a problem when Neo Nazis violently removed an elected leader in Ukraine for the Obama regime.


Nazis hardly represented all, or even most, of the Anti-Russian revolution who removed Putin's puppet. Besides, what does that have to do with what happened in Charlottesville?
You say you have a problem with Nazis in Ukraine, but not in America. Why?


Why do you keep REPEATING the same garbage points that I dealt with only a week or so ago. The ELECTED leader was elected by the people of Ukraine. The irony of you crowing about fake Nazis and supporting US backed neo Nazis in Ukraine removing that leader by violence is just beyond a joke. There are no "Nazis", they died off in 1945.



It is expedient to use the term, "Nazi." That's the extent of the thought behind the use of the term Nazi today.

The Nazis of the Jewish Holocaust:

1. First identified and ostracized the Jews.
2. Made them wear the star of David
3. Shut down or stole their businesses and absorbed their wealth (money, homes, etc)
4. Moved them to ghettos
5. Moved them to concentration camps
6. Killed the ones least fit to work
7. Worked the fit ones to death
8. Experimented on them
9. When the war ended, they had no country, no where to go.
10. In 1948 Israel was resurrected so the Jews would have a land of their own.

There is no Nazi party on this planet, or the UN would be involved. That is huge part of why the UN was created, so that no other human rights violations such as this would ever occur again.

I expected to find more regimented autists on this page. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the ones who throw out terms and catch phrases when they do not match up with the definitions history has outlined for us.

The man in Charlottesville might not be an aberration, I'm sure there are others in this country who are just as full of hate and willing to do harm to someone based on color, nationality, etc... But, they will meet resistance. This behavior will not be adopted by the country and put into action by the government, as it was in Germany. Hence, it doesn't meet the definition or comparison of "Nazi." It is a convenient catch-phrase to stir easy outrage by lazy protesters who really don't know what they stand for either. Because if the opponent doesn't meet the definition of a Nazi, or a fascist (I went over the tenets of fascism in another thread, I'm not going to do it again here), then the protesters cannot be ANTIFA. And if you aren't ANTIFA, what are you?

That's a scary question and a helluva deep subject. I propose that they are mob mentality and nothing more.


Hitler and his party were Nazis even before they took power in Germany. To be a Nazi is to embrace the ugly, dehumanizing ideology of Adolf Hitler, not just to take power and carry out said ideology.


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Persephone29
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04 Jul 2019, 3:54 pm

^ a pitiful, over simplified attempt to link an entire political party with misguided nuts who have zero political backing and never will. Gone are the Southern families without a speck of non-white blood in them... We have become a mixed race of people. White skin does not equal Aryan bloodlines.

*yawn


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04 Jul 2019, 3:59 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
A pitiful, over simplified attempt to link an entire political party with misguided nuts who have zero political backing and never will. Gone are the Southern families without a speck of non-white blood in them... We have become a mixed race of people. White skin does not equal Aryan bloodlines.
Have you forgotten? It is not so much how a person looks that defines his or her identity, but how a person self-defines.

So if a bunch of people with Slavic Jews on one side of their families and Bantu Zulus on the other side decide to identify themselves as White Aryans, no one else can refute their claim.


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Kraichgauer
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04 Jul 2019, 4:20 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
^ a pitiful, over simplified attempt to link an entire political party with misguided nuts who have zero political backing and never will. Gone are the Southern families without a speck of non-white blood in them... We have become a mixed race of people. White skin does not equal Aryan bloodlines.

*yawn


As I recall, the Nazis had also started out as a bunch of misguided nuts without political backing. In fact, until Hitler had managed to feign being used by Germany's right wing political elite (shades of Trump and the American right?) in order to serve as a counter balance to the communists, nobody in Germany outside the Nazi party legitimately believed Hitler could achieve power.
Incidentally, none of the Nazis were Aryans, as the Aryans were only a branch of the larger Indo-European family that had invaded India and Iran.


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04 Jul 2019, 5:52 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Incidentally, none of the Nazis were Aryans, as the Aryans were only a branch of the larger Indo-European family that had invaded India and Iran.

Massive joke was the early German Nazi party culturally appropriated symbols of a culture (sanskrit swastika) and the a sanskrit based name (aryan or noble one) from little brown people who eventually settled in India.

A pure "aryan" is actually as far from the nordic superman Hitler and friends worshipped as you can get...



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04 Jul 2019, 5:55 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
Gone are the Southern families without a speck of non-white blood in them... We have become a mixed race of people. .


The cult of the "white man" relies on self-allocation based on European inheritance, geographic habitat (white majority neighborhoods) and culture (white majority living/workspace)...

People who self-identify as white anywhere in the world do not consider themselves mixed...



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04 Jul 2019, 7:28 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Incidentally, none of the Nazis were Aryans, as the Aryans were only a branch of the larger Indo-European family that had invaded India and Iran.

Massive joke was the early German Nazi party culturally appropriated symbols of a culture (sanskrit swastika) and the a sanskrit based name (aryan or noble one) from little brown people who eventually settled in India.

A pure "aryan" is actually as far from the nordic superman Hitler and friends worshipped as you can get...


It's also true that the Beaker Folk, who were a prehistoric Indo-European people who had colonized much of western and central Europe, were predominately brachicephalic and very possibly dark haired.


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04 Jul 2019, 8:00 pm

Myself and a great many other Southerners who are white skinned also have mixed grandchildren. We don't care what these idiots 'identify' as, we will not stand by and watch white supremacists terrorize our country. One nut may slip through the cracks and run someone over, as evidenced by Charlottesville. But, they won't rise to power of any sort.


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04 Jul 2019, 8:06 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Trump and the American right


This is what it boils down to, this is what it is really all about.

The vast majority of America has always viewed nazis as repugnant. It's not like they need to be persuaded to.

This is really about campaigning against Trump and the American right.

Just admit the obvious.



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04 Jul 2019, 8:40 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Trump and the American right


This is what it boils down to, this is what it is really all about.

The vast majority of America has always viewed nazis as repugnant. It's not like they need to be persuaded to.

This is really about campaigning against Trump and the American right.

Just admit the obvious.


So you're saying that those fanatics who chant their white power slogans aren't real? Or that they aren't committing acts of terrorism?
The American right has been a home for such fanatics. Conservatives in the past have simply ignored them, or rationalized them, or even denied they were even real. Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away.


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04 Jul 2019, 8:44 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
It's also true that the Beaker Folk, who were a prehistoric Indo-European people who had colonized much of western and central Europe, were predominately brachicephalic and very possibly dark haired.

Yep the irony is the primitive (pre-Beaker) indigenous population in Europe who evolved the nordic phenotype were hunter gathers which contradicts the white supremacist narrative.

In addition to the Indo_European language these central Asians also introduced technology, warfare, farming and building into Europe. Writing didn't actually develop in Europe till the Greeks learned phoenician script. Indeed the ancient Greeks (the founders of European civilisation) themselves attest to learning civilisation from the Egyptians.