Trump wants to deport people here for medical reasons.

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kraftiekortie
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23 Sep 2019, 12:03 pm

“The New Colossus” is not “disregarded.”

Just because something is old—-doesn’t mean it isn’t viable.



Antrax
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23 Sep 2019, 1:11 pm

One thing I would like is a coherent vision on immigration from the democrats/left/liberals etc. It seems all I hear is: Immigrants good, Trump bad. I liken it to the republican stance on healthcare. They're anti-Obamacare but have no idea what to actually replace it with.

A few questions I would like straight answers to:

Do you support open borders where anyone who wants to can come to U.S.?

If not, what is the penalty for coming to the U.S. without proper approval?

How many immigrants is a reasonable number to be approved to come to the U.S., and how will you decide who can come to the U.S.?


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kraftiekortie
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23 Sep 2019, 1:20 pm

I understand what you're saying. We can't take in "everybody."

But what would YOU do if you were a Guatemalan who's had years of crop failures, and is beset by drug-dealing gangs? Who has to support a family? And who detests drugs and drug-dealing more than any American can imagine?

I'm not for totally "open" borders----but I am certainly for an Ellis Island type of situation as was constituted circa 1900. I'm sure most of the "illegal" immigrants would go that route, too----rather than spending thousands of dollars on "coyotes" who sneak them into the US.



sly279
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23 Sep 2019, 2:34 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I understand what you're saying. We can't take in "everybody."

But what would YOU do if you were a Guatemalan who's had years of crop failures, and is beset by drug-dealing gangs? Who has to support a family? And who detests drugs and drug-dealing more than any American can imagine?

I'm not for totally "open" borders----but I am certainly for an Ellis Island type of situation as was constituted circa 1900. I'm sure most of the "illegal" immigrants would go that route, too----rather than spending thousands of dollars on "coyotes" who sneak them into the US.

Suck it up and work to fix your nation instead of moving and making trouble in another nation.
There’s billions of people with crap lives they can’t all come here.
What’s a homless American stuck on streets with drug dealers and treated like crap suppose to do? How about after every single last American has a home and income then we can consider letting others in.

if the left had half as much compassion for Americans as illgeal immigrants maybe we have no homeless.


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EzraS
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23 Sep 2019, 3:45 pm

Ellis Island pretty much only just asked a few questions, did a quick check for communicable diseases and sent them through.

And US still processes millions of immigrants per year. According to the Center for Immigration Studies, the number stood at 44.5 million in 2017.

Meanwhile there are millions of US citizens who are experiencing a housing crisis.



kraftiekortie
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23 Sep 2019, 4:54 pm

But the "New Ellis Island" wouldn't be like that. They would have the latest in accountability technology. They would keep track of the immigrants once they got the "go-ahead."



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23 Sep 2019, 4:57 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
Point is, since we're going to be a condescending as*hole and spout conservative dribble that is not new, that the majority of the population claim to be Christians. The Bible exhorts Christians to exhort and help the poor. They claim our country is a Christian country with Christian roots. They believe as you do though which is anathema to what the Bible says. How can they claim this nation is a Christian nation when it is not so at all? This is for number 1.

For number 2, if we are not going to live by the words written on it then let's get rid it.

No, I don't hate democracy (I thought we was a constitutional republic and not a democracy) and freedom but what I hate is hypocrisy. And, that is one difference between our nation and others.


1. Jesus and his disciples took care of their own poor. Took care of the children of Abraham. When a foreign woman askd Jesus for aid he said "it is not right to take the childrens (of Abraham) bread and toss it to the dogs".

Now that doesn't mean that Jesus was agaist foreign aid, because he did end up helping her. But it sems pretty clear the children of Abraham took priority.

2. The Statue of Liberty did not come with that inscribed plague. Also the poem inscribed on it is very derogatory, literally referring to immigrants as garbage. Those going on what Emma Lazarus wrote don't seem to acknowledge how un-PC it is.


That's only half the story. Jesus helped her anyhow when she replied, "But even dogs eat crumbs from the master's table." As Jesus had helped a Roman centurion whose slave he loved like a son was sick, he obviously was only testing the woman's faith. Regardless, it's hardly a great argument against foreign aid.
Who cares if the poem wasn't originally on the statue? It's still keeping with the idealism behind the statue.


Bill, I already wrote in the second pragraph of my post that Jesus helped her. Please read my entire posts before committing on them. I'm usually very succinct so that's not asking for much.


I may have worded my response clumsily, as I did see your post. I was mostly illustrating how Christ was willing to help anyone.



And I was illustrating how the children of Israel were the primary recipients of help. Jesus made it clear his job was to help them. His disciples wanted to send her away. iow send her back where she came from. It seems to me that Jesus helping the Canaanite woman and the Roman centurian were the exception to the rule.

Btw there was nothing clumsy about your reply. You just went off on the first part of what I wrote instead of reading the whole thing and taking a minute to digest it.


No, Ezra, I've been up writing and I just got tired. I think I got more than one thought in my head when I responded to you.


So I write in the second half of my statement, "Now that doesn't mean that Jesus was aganist foreign aid, because he did end up helping her." And your response was, "That's only half the story. Jesus helped her anyhow". Deductive reasoning tells me that you only read the first half of what I wrote.


I apologized. Take a chill pill.


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EzraS
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23 Sep 2019, 4:58 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
But the "New Ellis Island" wouldn't be like that. They would have the latest in accountability technology. They would keep track of the immigrants once they got the "go-ahead."


Alright, but the US already processes millions of immigrants per year.

Are millions not enough?



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23 Sep 2019, 5:01 pm

sly279 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I understand what you're saying. We can't take in "everybody."

But what would YOU do if you were a Guatemalan who's had years of crop failures, and is beset by drug-dealing gangs? Who has to support a family? And who detests drugs and drug-dealing more than any American can imagine?

I'm not for totally "open" borders----but I am certainly for an Ellis Island type of situation as was constituted circa 1900. I'm sure most of the "illegal" immigrants would go that route, too----rather than spending thousands of dollars on "coyotes" who sneak them into the US.

Suck it up and work to fix your nation instead of moving and making trouble in another nation.
There’s billions of people with crap lives they can’t all come here.
What’s a homless American stuck on streets with drug dealers and treated like crap suppose to do? How about after every single last American has a home and income then we can consider letting others in.

if the left had half as much compassion for Americans as illgeal immigrants maybe we have no homeless.


Immigrants rarely cause trouble after coming to America. It's the nativists who are the violent trouble makers.
Those who say we should care for down-and-out Americans first before we care about immigration are usually the same ones who couldn't care less about their own needy countrymen and women.


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kraftiekortie
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23 Sep 2019, 5:10 pm

There's no way 44 million immigrants are processed every year.

In 2018, about 1.1 million people were granted a "green card.

In 2016, 1,180,000 legal immigrants were admitted into the United States.



cubedemon6073
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23 Sep 2019, 7:00 pm

sly279 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I understand what you're saying. We can't take in "everybody."

But what would YOU do if you were a Guatemalan who's had years of crop failures, and is beset by drug-dealing gangs? Who has to support a family? And who detests drugs and drug-dealing more than any American can imagine?

I'm not for totally "open" borders----but I am certainly for an Ellis Island type of situation as was constituted circa 1900. I'm sure most of the "illegal" immigrants would go that route, too----rather than spending thousands of dollars on "coyotes" who sneak them into the US.

Suck it up and work to fix your nation instead of moving and making trouble in another nation.
There’s billions of people with crap lives they can’t all come here.
What’s a homless American stuck on streets with drug dealers and treated like crap suppose to do? How about after every single last American has a home and income then we can consider letting others in.

if the left had half as much compassion for Americans as illgeal immigrants maybe we have no homeless.


Yet, If I complain about the problems of our country I'm told to love it or leave and the other nations of the world have immigration policies similar to ours some even more strict. I'm sorry but if I can't leave the nation that easily because I can't reside anywhere that easily then telling someone to love it or leave it is a bunch of bull. If we're stuck in our places and can't leave then we all reserve our right to b***h.

And, this does sort of refute what I was talking about with the social contract. One really can't leave if one has no right to go anywhere.

As for the inscription on the New Collossus the point to what I'm making is let's cut out the hypocrisy and the cock and bull. I'm not disputing whether you're right or wrong, Ezra or the other guy is right or wrong but if we're not going to live up to our values then let's change them to reflect this reality. Start by removing the inscription. Let's quit calling ourselves a Christian when it is impractical to actually follow Christ's words towards others. Let's quit claiming we're a freedom loving nation when one is not allowed to complain about one's employers in front street. Let's quit saying that honesty is the best policy when in a job interview when one is told that lying is the worst one can do yet if one quits a job due to the previous employer sucking one is not allowed to tell this truth. Let's cut the whole one can do anything one sets his mind to when that is most certainly not true at all. Let's cut the cock and bull that claims one has choices when really one's choices are limited.

And, let's not forget about telling someone to be themselves when it is most certainly not true and we have to conform to all kinds of cock and bull standards like eye contact, etc, etc.

Cut the s**t is what I say.



cubedemon6073
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23 Sep 2019, 7:02 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
There's no way 44 million immigrants are processed every year.

In 2018, about 1.1 million people were granted a "green card.

In 2016, 1,180,000 legal immigrants were admitted into the United States.


Maybe they were processed and rejected.



kraftiekortie
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24 Sep 2019, 5:38 pm

Nope......not that many people were rejected. Absolutely no way.



Antrax
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24 Sep 2019, 5:50 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
There's no way 44 million immigrants are processed every year.

In 2018, about 1.1 million people were granted a "green card.

In 2016, 1,180,000 legal immigrants were admitted into the United States.


44-47 million is the figure given to how many immigrants live in the U.S. they did not all come here in a single year. It comes out to 14% of the population which is higher than in the year 1900 (13%).


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kraftiekortie
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24 Sep 2019, 5:53 pm

I agree with that figure.



sly279
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24 Sep 2019, 5:56 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I understand what you're saying. We can't take in "everybody."

But what would YOU do if you were a Guatemalan who's had years of crop failures, and is beset by drug-dealing gangs? Who has to support a family? And who detests drugs and drug-dealing more than any American can imagine?

I'm not for totally "open" borders----but I am certainly for an Ellis Island type of situation as was constituted circa 1900. I'm sure most of the "illegal" immigrants would go that route, too----rather than spending thousands of dollars on "coyotes" who sneak them into the US.

Suck it up and work to fix your nation instead of moving and making trouble in another nation.
There’s billions of people with crap lives they can’t all come here.
What’s a homless American stuck on streets with drug dealers and treated like crap suppose to do? How about after every single last American has a home and income then we can consider letting others in.

if the left had half as much compassion for Americans as illgeal immigrants maybe we have no homeless.


Immigrants rarely cause trouble after coming to America. It's the nativists who are the violent trouble makers.
Those who say we should care for down-and-out Americans first before we care about immigration are usually the same ones who couldn't care less about their own needy countrymen and women.


I’m saying it and I’m on welfare and support helping Americans first.
How many illegals are you taking in? How many are you giving money to? Id wager none.

We have millions of poor unemployed homeless people we don’t need to take in millions more poor unemployed homeless people then give them aid why we let our own die in the streets.
I’d rather we double social security payments then help illegal immigrants.
Sorry Americans come first. Any nation that can’t care for its own shouldn’t be caring for people from other nations. Just as you wouldn’t starve and risk losing your home to care for illegals.


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