Trump wants to deport people here for medical reasons.

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cubedemon6073
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26 Sep 2019, 2:23 am

EzraS wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
That's a right wing myth your side started telling, then fell for.
So the remaining evil Koch brother who now has a plan to end food stamps and medicaid isn't the wealthy elite?
Are you serious the right isn't going to hold you in contempt for needing help? And without those rich Democrats you attack, just who's going to fight for those in need? I can tell you right now, certainly not the right.
Now I'm going to bed. I have to donate plasma in the morning.


Nope, unlike you I have not been indoctrinated and I have not been sucked in by any side. The wealthy elite are the wealthy elite, including the ones conning you to trust and be entirely dependent upon them. Yeah I don't think the right holds those who are significantly disabled in contempt. Just those who are mooching off the system. The only difference is the democrats want everyone suckling off the government tit.


The thing is, plenty on the right believe the disabled can still work, thus are moochers, and/or think said disabled should either be cared for their families, or just die.
I have never seen any evidence that the right is caring about anyone save for the wealthy elite and big business.


Many disabled can and do work. Despite my severe disabilities, if I can work I will. It really has to do with attitude. There are those who seek handouts and those who are stuck with handouts they don't want but have to take. Those who can only dream of being as able bodied as many who seek handouts. What you see is in accordance with your indoctrination.


Yet, you're being put into care home. So, in your case how does attitude apply? And, how do we decide who can and cannot?

You may not be a conservative yet you have similar to many conservatives who have similar patterns of hypocrisy.


No I am cutting the apron strings and moving out of my parents house because I am an adult now. I am applying personal responsibility and self reliance to the fullest extent I am capable of so far.

Deciding who can and cannot works in favor of those who actually cannot.

You see hypocrisy because you make up contradictions to knock down.


Good luck with you moving out. I do you hope you succeed in your endeavors.

I made nothing up.

I simply look at the maxims given together side by side and I simply ask questions.

Example: Conservatives state we live in a competitive society and our society values competition.

They also believe personal responsibility which means that it was my own actions and choices that led to my current circumstances.

Competition must logically entail that there will be winners and losers.

If there must be winners and losers then what I ask is if some must lose then how does my choices and my own actions always determine my own circumstances?

This is an inherent contradiction of competition and personal responsibility.

So, personal responsibility can't hold up in a world of competition.


So what is the alternative?


Well, what is my alternative? Good question!

My alternative is to be truthful and be consistent.

If it is not possible to help everyone and some must lose and may starve and be impoverished and we must accept this as truth and facts of life then let's drop the idea that we have all of this control over our lives when control over our lives is very limited. Let's all accept that we all do the best we can with what we have and we may lose in the end. Let's accept fate as well as choice. As human beings, let's not lie to ourselves nor lie to each other.


And how is that to be practically applied?


What do you mean exactly?

Accept that some will win and lose. That's it. That's all there is to it. But, basing negative circumstances upon choices one has made w/o considering other factors is delusion. Sometimes, it just is what it is. If we really want to simplify it further.

Doesn't mean we as individuals shouldn't make the best choices possible or we shouldn't help others. Sometimes, some things are simply fated and simply are. Like I said, I believe in both determinism and free will and both co-exist with each other. I believe in compatibilism.



cubedemon6073
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26 Sep 2019, 3:09 am

I've always asked myself why do bad things happen to good people and vice versa. I think the answer (I'm speaking metaphysically) is a certain balance has to be maintained. A balance we as human beings do not really understand. Sometimes we cause our circumstances but sometimes circumstances simply happen that is beyond our comprehension. Think about the law of conservation of energy and mass. One can't create energy and matter nor destroy it. One can only transform it.

Yes, this is a bit of a stretch, into spiritualism and may seem woo woo to you all. Just some crazy ideas.

And, in quantum mechanics by observing a particle one influences it. What if our happenings and circumstances influence our thoughts and our influenced by our thoughts. Where are our thoughts? In our brain? What is the brain made of. Neurons and Dendrites I believe. What are these things made of. Sub atomic particles. It is said that if one influences one sub atomic particle one can influence another across the universe. What if (I know it is completely crazy. I have no proof. Just stupid and crazy ideas.) all of these particles interacting in certain ways keep the very existence in balance and in tact. So, maybe our suffering, good fortune, good, evil, etc, etc, is simply a way for the existence to be balanced and to exist.

Hell, I think this would be a good sci-fi novel.



EzraS
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26 Sep 2019, 3:45 am

cubedemon6073 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
That's a right wing myth your side started telling, then fell for.
So the remaining evil Koch brother who now has a plan to end food stamps and medicaid isn't the wealthy elite?
Are you serious the right isn't going to hold you in contempt for needing help? And without those rich Democrats you attack, just who's going to fight for those in need? I can tell you right now, certainly not the right.
Now I'm going to bed. I have to donate plasma in the morning.


Nope, unlike you I have not been indoctrinated and I have not been sucked in by any side. The wealthy elite are the wealthy elite, including the ones conning you to trust and be entirely dependent upon them. Yeah I don't think the right holds those who are significantly disabled in contempt. Just those who are mooching off the system. The only difference is the democrats want everyone suckling off the government tit.


The thing is, plenty on the right believe the disabled can still work, thus are moochers, and/or think said disabled should either be cared for their families, or just die.
I have never seen any evidence that the right is caring about anyone save for the wealthy elite and big business.


Many disabled can and do work. Despite my severe disabilities, if I can work I will. It really has to do with attitude. There are those who seek handouts and those who are stuck with handouts they don't want but have to take. Those who can only dream of being as able bodied as many who seek handouts. What you see is in accordance with your indoctrination.


Yet, you're being put into care home. So, in your case how does attitude apply? And, how do we decide who can and cannot?

You may not be a conservative yet you have similar to many conservatives who have similar patterns of hypocrisy.


No I am cutting the apron strings and moving out of my parents house because I am an adult now. I am applying personal responsibility and self reliance to the fullest extent I am capable of so far.

Deciding who can and cannot works in favor of those who actually cannot.

You see hypocrisy because you make up contradictions to knock down.


Good luck with you moving out. I do you hope you succeed in your endeavors.

I made nothing up.

I simply look at the maxims given together side by side and I simply ask questions.

Example: Conservatives state we live in a competitive society and our society values competition.

They also believe personal responsibility which means that it was my own actions and choices that led to my current circumstances.

Competition must logically entail that there will be winners and losers.

If there must be winners and losers then what I ask is if some must lose then how does my choices and my own actions always determine my own circumstances?

This is an inherent contradiction of competition and personal responsibility.

So, personal responsibility can't hold up in a world of competition.



You're asserting that losing is always necessarily bad. I've lost in things I put my best foot forward in, because I thought it was in my best interest. Turns out I was wrong.


The addage of "If at first you don't succeed. Try, try again" comes to mind. There are many factual accounts of success that was proceeded by a string of failures.


This is true. But, there are those who did try, try again and eventually died. This is the part that is not really discussed b/c it makes some people in our society who believe we have all of this control over our lives uncomfortable. If our society was presented truthfully this would be discussed as well and force people to confront their idea of the American Dream and the idea that anyone and everyone can achieve it if they work hard and do all the right things presented.


Quite the opposite of what you're claiming, I've heard inspirational stories of those who died trying. Fought on until their dying breath. Not giving up until the very end even though it was hopeless. Against all odds. Along with try try again, I've also heard that life holds no guarantees. Your mileage may vary. But the emphasis is always on trying.



EzraS
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26 Sep 2019, 4:05 am

cubedemon6073 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
That's a right wing myth your side started telling, then fell for.
So the remaining evil Koch brother who now has a plan to end food stamps and medicaid isn't the wealthy elite?
Are you serious the right isn't going to hold you in contempt for needing help? And without those rich Democrats you attack, just who's going to fight for those in need? I can tell you right now, certainly not the right.
Now I'm going to bed. I have to donate plasma in the morning.


Nope, unlike you I have not been indoctrinated and I have not been sucked in by any side. The wealthy elite are the wealthy elite, including the ones conning you to trust and be entirely dependent upon them. Yeah I don't think the right holds those who are significantly disabled in contempt. Just those who are mooching off the system. The only difference is the democrats want everyone suckling off the government tit.


The thing is, plenty on the right believe the disabled can still work, thus are moochers, and/or think said disabled should either be cared for their families, or just die.
I have never seen any evidence that the right is caring about anyone save for the wealthy elite and big business.


Many disabled can and do work. Despite my severe disabilities, if I can work I will. It really has to do with attitude. There are those who seek handouts and those who are stuck with handouts they don't want but have to take. Those who can only dream of being as able bodied as many who seek handouts. What you see is in accordance with your indoctrination.


Yet, you're being put into care home. So, in your case how does attitude apply? And, how do we decide who can and cannot?

You may not be a conservative yet you have similar to many conservatives who have similar patterns of hypocrisy.


No I am cutting the apron strings and moving out of my parents house because I am an adult now. I am applying personal responsibility and self reliance to the fullest extent I am capable of so far.

Deciding who can and cannot works in favor of those who actually cannot.

You see hypocrisy because you make up contradictions to knock down.


Good luck with you moving out. I do you hope you succeed in your endeavors.

I made nothing up.

I simply look at the maxims given together side by side and I simply ask questions.

Example: Conservatives state we live in a competitive society and our society values competition.

They also believe personal responsibility which means that it was my own actions and choices that led to my current circumstances.

Competition must logically entail that there will be winners and losers.

If there must be winners and losers then what I ask is if some must lose then how does my choices and my own actions always determine my own circumstances?

This is an inherent contradiction of competition and personal responsibility.

So, personal responsibility can't hold up in a world of competition.


So what is the alternative?


Well, what is my alternative? Good question!

My alternative is to be truthful and be consistent.

If it is not possible to help everyone and some must lose and may starve and be impoverished and we must accept this as truth and facts of life then let's drop the idea that we have all of this control over our lives when control over our lives is very limited. Let's all accept that we all do the best we can with what we have and we may lose in the end. Let's accept fate as well as choice. As human beings, let's not lie to ourselves nor lie to each other.


And how is that to be practically applied?


What do you mean exactly?

Accept that some will win and lose. That's it. That's all there is to it. But, basing negative circumstances upon choices one has made w/o considering other factors is delusion. Sometimes, it just is what it is. If we really want to simplify it further.

Doesn't mean we as individuals shouldn't make the best choices possible or we shouldn't help others. Sometimes, some things are simply fated and simply are. Like I said, I believe in both determinism and free will and both co-exist with each other. I believe in compatibilism.


And how does any of that go against what you call my hypocritical conservative viewpoint?



cubedemon6073
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26 Sep 2019, 4:06 am

EzraS wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
That's a right wing myth your side started telling, then fell for.
So the remaining evil Koch brother who now has a plan to end food stamps and medicaid isn't the wealthy elite?
Are you serious the right isn't going to hold you in contempt for needing help? And without those rich Democrats you attack, just who's going to fight for those in need? I can tell you right now, certainly not the right.
Now I'm going to bed. I have to donate plasma in the morning.


Nope, unlike you I have not been indoctrinated and I have not been sucked in by any side. The wealthy elite are the wealthy elite, including the ones conning you to trust and be entirely dependent upon them. Yeah I don't think the right holds those who are significantly disabled in contempt. Just those who are mooching off the system. The only difference is the democrats want everyone suckling off the government tit.


The thing is, plenty on the right believe the disabled can still work, thus are moochers, and/or think said disabled should either be cared for their families, or just die.
I have never seen any evidence that the right is caring about anyone save for the wealthy elite and big business.


Many disabled can and do work. Despite my severe disabilities, if I can work I will. It really has to do with attitude. There are those who seek handouts and those who are stuck with handouts they don't want but have to take. Those who can only dream of being as able bodied as many who seek handouts. What you see is in accordance with your indoctrination.


Yet, you're being put into care home. So, in your case how does attitude apply? And, how do we decide who can and cannot?

You may not be a conservative yet you have similar to many conservatives who have similar patterns of hypocrisy.


No I am cutting the apron strings and moving out of my parents house because I am an adult now. I am applying personal responsibility and self reliance to the fullest extent I am capable of so far.

Deciding who can and cannot works in favor of those who actually cannot.

You see hypocrisy because you make up contradictions to knock down.


Good luck with you moving out. I do you hope you succeed in your endeavors.

I made nothing up.

I simply look at the maxims given together side by side and I simply ask questions.

Example: Conservatives state we live in a competitive society and our society values competition.

They also believe personal responsibility which means that it was my own actions and choices that led to my current circumstances.

Competition must logically entail that there will be winners and losers.

If there must be winners and losers then what I ask is if some must lose then how does my choices and my own actions always determine my own circumstances?

This is an inherent contradiction of competition and personal responsibility.

So, personal responsibility can't hold up in a world of competition.



You're asserting that losing is always necessarily bad. I've lost in things I put my best foot forward in, because I thought it was in my best interest. Turns out I was wrong.


The addage of "If at first you don't succeed. Try, try again" comes to mind. There are many factual accounts of success that was proceeded by a string of failures.


This is true. But, there are those who did try, try again and eventually died. This is the part that is not really discussed b/c it makes some people in our society who believe we have all of this control over our lives uncomfortable. If our society was presented truthfully this would be discussed as well and force people to confront their idea of the American Dream and the idea that anyone and everyone can achieve it if they work hard and do all the right things presented.


Quite the opposite of what you're claiming, I've heard inspirational stories of those who died trying. Fought on until their dying breath. Not giving up until the very end even though it was hopeless. Against all odds. Along with try try again, I've also heard that life holds no guarantees. Your mileage may vary. But the emphasis is always on trying.


Yet, they still lost. You've not disproven anything I have said.

Switching gears for a moment, how was this supposed to be motivational and inspiring?

I think Pinhead has it right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhvrnfprSTM

:D :D :D



EzraS
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26 Sep 2019, 4:17 am

cubedemon6073 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
That's a right wing myth your side started telling, then fell for.
So the remaining evil Koch brother who now has a plan to end food stamps and medicaid isn't the wealthy elite?
Are you serious the right isn't going to hold you in contempt for needing help? And without those rich Democrats you attack, just who's going to fight for those in need? I can tell you right now, certainly not the right.
Now I'm going to bed. I have to donate plasma in the morning.


Nope, unlike you I have not been indoctrinated and I have not been sucked in by any side. The wealthy elite are the wealthy elite, including the ones conning you to trust and be entirely dependent upon them. Yeah I don't think the right holds those who are significantly disabled in contempt. Just those who are mooching off the system. The only difference is the democrats want everyone suckling off the government tit.


The thing is, plenty on the right believe the disabled can still work, thus are moochers, and/or think said disabled should either be cared for their families, or just die.
I have never seen any evidence that the right is caring about anyone save for the wealthy elite and big business.


Many disabled can and do work. Despite my severe disabilities, if I can work I will. It really has to do with attitude. There are those who seek handouts and those who are stuck with handouts they don't want but have to take. Those who can only dream of being as able bodied as many who seek handouts. What you see is in accordance with your indoctrination.


Yet, you're being put into care home. So, in your case how does attitude apply? And, how do we decide who can and cannot?

You may not be a conservative yet you have similar to many conservatives who have similar patterns of hypocrisy.


No I am cutting the apron strings and moving out of my parents house because I am an adult now. I am applying personal responsibility and self reliance to the fullest extent I am capable of so far.

Deciding who can and cannot works in favor of those who actually cannot.

You see hypocrisy because you make up contradictions to knock down.


Good luck with you moving out. I do you hope you succeed in your endeavors.

I made nothing up.

I simply look at the maxims given together side by side and I simply ask questions.

Example: Conservatives state we live in a competitive society and our society values competition.

They also believe personal responsibility which means that it was my own actions and choices that led to my current circumstances.

Competition must logically entail that there will be winners and losers.

If there must be winners and losers then what I ask is if some must lose then how does my choices and my own actions always determine my own circumstances?

This is an inherent contradiction of competition and personal responsibility.

So, personal responsibility can't hold up in a world of competition.



You're asserting that losing is always necessarily bad. I've lost in things I put my best foot forward in, because I thought it was in my best interest. Turns out I was wrong.


The addage of "If at first you don't succeed. Try, try again" comes to mind. There are many factual accounts of success that was proceeded by a string of failures.


This is true. But, there are those who did try, try again and eventually died. This is the part that is not really discussed b/c it makes some people in our society who believe we have all of this control over our lives uncomfortable. If our society was presented truthfully this would be discussed as well and force people to confront their idea of the American Dream and the idea that anyone and everyone can achieve it if they work hard and do all the right things presented.


Quite the opposite of what you're claiming, I've heard inspirational stories of those who died trying. Fought on until their dying breath. Not giving up until the very end even though it was hopeless. Against all odds. Along with try try again, I've also heard that life holds no guarantees. Your mileage may vary. But the emphasis is always on trying.


Yet, they still lost. You've not disproven anything I have said.


Quite the contrary, you said it's not brought up because it makes people who believe we have control of our lives uncomfortable. And I provided examples of how it is brought up to inspire people to take control of their lives no matter what. To laugh death in the face.

cubedemon6073 wrote:
Switching gears for a moment, how was this supposed to be motivational and inspiring?

I think Pinhead has it right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhvrnfprSTM

:D :D :D


I don't know much about those movies but I bet they are ultimately about perseverance triumphing over adversity.



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26 Sep 2019, 6:50 am

It’s usually better to try than not to try. To the best of your ability.

Making an effort provides education which would be of assistance in succeeding later after repeated failures.

If one doesn’t try, one fails, and doesn’t learn for the next time.

When one doesn’t learn, one continues to fail and fail, and never succeed.

I know this—because sometimes I don’t try. I always lose when this happens.

Not trying and learning has put me into many binds, some of which continue to be binds today.



EzraS
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26 Sep 2019, 7:15 am

When I was little this inspired me to no end



https://youtu.be/BQ4yd2W50No



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26 Sep 2019, 7:57 am

Sometimes, all one can do is “try.” Knowing that success might not be possible—but striving for the best, nevertheless.

I don’t take an absolute stance on many things.

Saying this, if this absolute approach inspired you to your success, then it was good for you.

It’s been good for winning sports teams for years.



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26 Sep 2019, 10:00 am

It was the whole speech. To me the there is no try meant not taking a half hearted approach.



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26 Sep 2019, 4:12 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
That's a right wing myth your side started telling, then fell for.
So the remaining evil Koch brother who now has a plan to end food stamps and medicaid isn't the wealthy elite?
Are you serious the right isn't going to hold you in contempt for needing help? And without those rich Democrats you attack, just who's going to fight for those in need? I can tell you right now, certainly not the right.
Now I'm going to bed. I have to donate plasma in the morning.


Nope, unlike you I have not been indoctrinated and I have not been sucked in by any side. The wealthy elite are the wealthy elite, including the ones conning you to trust and be entirely dependent upon them. Yeah I don't think the right holds those who are significantly disabled in contempt. Just those who are mooching off the system. The only difference is the democrats want everyone suckling off the government tit.


The thing is, plenty on the right believe the disabled can still work, thus are moochers, and/or think said disabled should either be cared for their families, or just die.
I have never seen any evidence that the right is caring about anyone save for the wealthy elite and big business.


Many disabled can and do work. Despite my severe disabilities, if I can work I will. It really has to do with attitude. There are those who seek handouts and those who are stuck with handouts they don't want but have to take. Those who can only dream of being as able bodied as many who seek handouts. What you see is in accordance with your indoctrination.


I can’t work more then I currently am and it’s a lot for me, stressful every day.
Many can’t work or can’t work many hours, able body has nothing to do with it.



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26 Sep 2019, 4:23 pm

EzraS wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
That's a right wing myth your side started telling, then fell for.
So the remaining evil Koch brother who now has a plan to end food stamps and medicaid isn't the wealthy elite?
Are you serious the right isn't going to hold you in contempt for needing help? And without those rich Democrats you attack, just who's going to fight for those in need? I can tell you right now, certainly not the right.
Now I'm going to bed. I have to donate plasma in the morning.


Nope, unlike you I have not been indoctrinated and I have not been sucked in by any side. The wealthy elite are the wealthy elite, including the ones conning you to trust and be entirely dependent upon them. Yeah I don't think the right holds those who are significantly disabled in contempt. Just those who are mooching off the system. The only difference is the democrats want everyone suckling off the government tit.


The thing is, plenty on the right believe the disabled can still work, thus are moochers, and/or think said disabled should either be cared for their families, or just die.
I have never seen any evidence that the right is caring about anyone save for the wealthy elite and big business.


Many disabled can and do work. Despite my severe disabilities, if I can work I will. It really has to do with attitude. There are those who seek handouts and those who are stuck with handouts they don't want but have to take. Those who can only dream of being as able bodied as many who seek handouts. What you see is in accordance with your indoctrination.


Yet, you're being put into care home. So, in your case how does attitude apply? And, how do we decide who can and cannot?

You may not be a conservative yet you have similar to many conservatives who have similar patterns of hypocrisy.


No I am cutting the apron strings and moving out of my parents house because I am an adult now. I am applying personal responsibility and self reliance to the fullest extent I am capable of so far.

Deciding who can and cannot works in favor of those who actually cannot.

You see hypocrisy because you make up contradictions to knock down.


O.o
Can conservatives would say all disabled can work if up to them.



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26 Sep 2019, 5:18 pm

How this thread has changed and morphed...ha ha initial topic long gone.

Anyways, I'd say due to my taking of 'handouts' I guess some people may call it. I have gotten to a point that I have actually been able to hold a job for a few months now. It it wasn't for the alleged handouts, not sure what I'd be doing, I needed the SSI for income as I couldn't rely on my parents/family for financial help and medicaid to cover some treatment/therapy costs. And since then I have gotten better with the PTSD, Depression and Anxiety as well as getting vocational help to help with my social barriers so now I work at a big thrift store and lots of people there have disabilities or are a bit different or whatever so its not causing a problem there. I would like to be better at social interaction with co-workers but at least its not a dealbreaker there that I'm not.

But anyways some people need assistance, and it does seem overwhelmingly as though the republican party is much less friendly to the idea of providing any government assistance, than the democratic party generally speaking. I do wish there was a third option, but I don't really see it.


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26 Sep 2019, 6:12 pm

Instead of welfare, I became a failure most of my life.

Job firings, bosses made fun of me, co-workers insulted me, people laughed at me in job interviews because of my speech.

However, I gained experience, and knowledge, and eventually, I got a work at home STEM job.

Conservatives believe welfare "traps" people and "robs" them of such ambition. Especially, as they age, and have no work history.


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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 40,576
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

26 Sep 2019, 7:07 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Instead of welfare, I became a failure most of my life.

Job firings, bosses made fun of me, co-workers insulted me, people laughed at me in job interviews because of my speech.

However, I gained experience, and knowledge, and eventually, I got a work at home STEM job.

Conservatives believe welfare "traps" people and "robs" them of such ambition. Especially, as they age, and have no work history.


Temp agencies, that once were a means for people to get back into the job market, now won't hire you not only if you have no job history, but also if you haven't been recently employed. Again, business isn't doing their part to employ people in need of jobs.


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-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer