Wired Differently- Why not "diagnose" via MRI?

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kraftiekortie
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14 Nov 2019, 1:14 pm

Some cases of autism might be caused by some sort of thyroid dysfunction but, in reality, there are many causes which are not thyroid-related.

We have not found the Elixir of Life....the all-encompassing cure.

One size does NOT fit all.



kraftiekortie
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14 Nov 2019, 1:17 pm

I had. and have, autistic symptoms----but I don't believe I've ever had an abnormal EEG.



eikonabridge
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14 Nov 2019, 4:24 pm

Fnord wrote:
Googling "Thyroid Causes Autism" turned up a large number of non-scientific "studies" that "may indicate a connection", but none that irrefutably claim a cause for autism.

Congenital hypothyroidism certainly causes severe mental retardation if not treated in time. And it causes autism-like symptoms. All this is rare nowadays due to neonatal screening. But, it does happen, and I have personally met with such a child. The old name of this disorder is called "cretinism," now called "congenital iodine deficiency syndrome." You have only a few precious days after the birth to start hormone therapy. If you miss the time window, the brain damage becomes permanent. Still, I wouldn't call this condition autism, I have interacted with the child, and it is extremely difficult to teach them any minor skills. The symptoms are autism-like but not exactly autism. I can't describe it well enough, but their brain circuit is just "too short." The source of the problem seems to be defective myelination in brain neurons. This condition happens in 1 in 4,000 newborns.

I have also met another child with MSUD (maple syrup urine disease). The prevalence there is 1 in 180,000 newborns. Extremely rare. And it also causes autism-like symptoms, though not nearly as bad as cretinism in intellectual issues.

Where do we cut off? What's normal and what's a disease/disorder? The square-root law in math actually helps here. If a specific genetic condition falls below 1 in 1,000, generally it'll qualify as a disease/disorder. If it is above 1 in 1,000, then it's likely to be part of what's normal. (Square of 1,000 is one million, which is the size of a small country.)


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eikonabridge
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14 Nov 2019, 4:29 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I had. and have, autistic symptoms----but I don't believe I've ever had an abnormal EEG.

EEG or EKG? How often do you do EEG? Notice the paper I posted came out only in 2018. I don't think you can say anything regarding your EEG since this research finding is brand new.


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Fnord
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14 Nov 2019, 4:32 pm

A disorder is either autism or it isn't.  Something either causes autism or it doesn't.

Claiming that "Autism-Like Symptoms" indicate full-blown autism is like saying that a queasy stomach and a missed period are the same as being pregnant.

NEVER confuse the symptoms for the disorder.


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LoveNotHate
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14 Nov 2019, 4:41 pm

Fnord wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Fnord wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
... hormone imbalance is a known cause of autism...
Evidence, please?

Just search google "Thyroid causes autism".

"Scientists are still trying to discover various factors that contribute to the onset of Autism and conditions that could be connected to it"

"Is thyroid dysfunction one of them? While studies on this subject are limited, current evidence says yes".
https://thyroidadvisor.com/is-there-a-c ... nd-autism/
The article you cited specifically says, "The exact cause of the condition is unknown, but various factors are associated with its development."  Don't misrepresent what others have stated.

Googling "Thyroid Causes Autism" turned up a large number of non-scientific "studies" that "may indicate a connection", but none that irrefutably claim a cause for autism.

Nothing (nearly nothing) in medicine is irrefutable (conclusive); it's too complicated.

Medicine is about probabilities.

When a probability is suggested, then a *cause* is found.

The article clearly states that scientific evidence suggests that thyroid dysfunction is one of the causes of autism.

"Scientists are still trying to discover various factors that contribute to the onset of Autism and conditions that could be connected to it. Is thyroid dysfunction one of them? While studies on this subject are limited, current evidence says yes"


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eikonabridge
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14 Nov 2019, 4:51 pm

Fnord wrote:
A disorder is either autism or it isn't.  Something either causes autism or it doesn't.

Claiming that "Autism-Like Symptoms" indicate full-blown autism is like saying that a queasy stomach and a missed period are the same as being pregnant.

NEVER confuse the symptoms for the disorder.

It's not as simple as you think.

Typical autism is generated by overconnection of neurons: there are too many dendrites towards the ends. So, we even see a large subset of autistic people with large brains. It could also be caused by more intense firing of the neurons.

Myelination issues are a totally different mechanism. We still don't understand much there. But a possible route is leaky neural signals, it's like local short circuit.

So, yes, there is a degree of measure in each mechanism (overconnection, more intense firing, and leaky myelination, there may be more) beyond which you trigger a phase transition and autism symptoms becomes present. But myelination issues can cause severe mental retardation and the symptoms are definitely different from typical autism triggered by the other two mechanisms.


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14 Nov 2019, 5:00 pm

eikonabridge wrote:
Typical autism is generated by overconnection of neurons: there are too many dendrites towards the ends.  So, we even see a large subset of autistic people with large brains.  It could also be caused by more intense firing of the neurons...
Evidence, please?

Adults have larger brains than children.  Does that men that all adults have autism and children do not?

One symptom of epilepsy is more intense firing of neurons.  Does that mean that only people with epilepsy are autistic?

There is no known cause for autism, only a plethora of substances, symptoms and conditions associated with it.

Correlation Does Not Imply Causation


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eikonabridge
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14 Nov 2019, 5:05 pm

Fnord wrote:
eikonabridge wrote:
Typical autism is generated by overconnection of neurons: there are too many dendrites towards the ends.  So, we even see a large subset of autistic people with large brains.  It could also be caused by more intense firing of the neurons...
Evidence, please?

There is something called Google.


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14 Nov 2019, 5:11 pm

eikonabridge wrote:
Fnord wrote:
eikonabridge wrote:
Typical autism is generated by overconnection of neurons: there are too many dendrites towards the ends.  So, we even see a large subset of autistic people with large brains.  It could also be caused by more intense firing of the neurons...
Evidence, please?
There is something called Google.
Why not instead just admit that you have no supporting evidence for your claims?  The burden of proof for a claim linking an alleged cause with an alleged effect rests solely upon the person making the claim.  The lack of valid empirical evidence for your claims renders those claims invalid, to say the least.


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eikonabridge
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14 Nov 2019, 5:15 pm

https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/brains-people-autism-may-enlarged-throughout-life/

https://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/archive/newsrel/health/07_15_Courchesne.htm

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26456415/

You are a lazy person with no scientific credentials whatsoever.

I owe no burden of proof to anyone here. I hang around with people at a different level.


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eikonabridge
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14 Nov 2019, 5:23 pm

As for epilepsy and why it is "compatible" with autism, read this:

https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=380201&p=8347284

While other people sleep, I have kept moving forward. Ha ha. Catch up if you can.


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14 Nov 2019, 5:29 pm

eikonabridge wrote:
"... The researchers found that brain volume is nearly 3 percent greater, on average, in people with autism compared with controls..."

"Small head circumference at birth, followed by a sudden and excessive increase in head circumference during the first year of life, has been linked to development of autism by researchers at the University of California, San Diego (UCSD) School of Medicine and Children’s Hospital and Health Center, San Diego..."

"Macrocephaly and brain overgrowth have been associated with autism spectrum disorder..."


Where does it literally say that larger brains cause autism? "Is Associated With" is the operative phrase here. This means that either (a) whatever causes autism may also cause brain swelling, (b) autism itself may cause the brain to swell, OR (c) brain swelling causes autism.

As I pointed out, if (c) was true, then all adults would have autism, and children would not. Because autism is present in some (not all) children and in some (not all) adults, this nullifies the claim "Larger Brains Cause Autism".

As for being lazy and lacking scientific credentials, you are only partially correct.  I am in my 60s, and my physical activity has decreased since my 20s.  Also, while my highest degree is "only" an MSEE, I have more scientific training than most other people on this website -- I can discern between a causative claim, a correlative claim, and a crock of bushlit better than most people here, and I can honestly assert that your claims are -- at best -- merely correlative, and not causative.

Your serve.


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Fnord
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14 Nov 2019, 5:31 pm

eikonabridge wrote:
As for epilepsy and why it is "compatible" with autism, read this:

https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=380201&p=8347284

While other people sleep, I have kept moving forward. Ha ha. Catch up if you can.
You cite yourself as an allegedly reliable source to self-validate your claims.  In effect, you are saying "My claims are valid because I say they are".  This is not exactly good science.

Besides, as I've already pointed out, not only is epilepsy not the cause of autism, but many people who have autism don't have epilepsy. Correlation Does Not Imply Causation.


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kraftiekortie
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14 Nov 2019, 5:38 pm

EEG. Electroencephalogram.

EKG. Electrocardiogram.



kraftiekortie
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14 Nov 2019, 5:39 pm

I wasn't disputing your findings, by the way.

I was just saying that I've never had an abnormal EEG.