Wired Differently- Why not "diagnose" via MRI?

Page 3 of 6 [ 88 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

LoveNotHate
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,195
Location: USA

14 Nov 2019, 5:40 pm

Fnord wrote:
There is no known cause for autism, only a plethora of substances, symptoms and conditions associated with it.

Universal negatives are surely wrong.

1. Imagine a child
2. The child does not have autism
3. Car wreck
4. Severe brain injury
5. Child now has autism

Do you not draw the conclusion that the car injury caused the child's autism?


_________________
After a failure, the easiest thing to do is to blame someone else.


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

14 Nov 2019, 5:46 pm

I can see, Eikonabridge, that you're raising your kids well with innovative strategies, and that they are thriving under your regimen.

But I don't really like claims of "superiority." Who do you hang out with who are "different"? Usually, when people boast like you just did, it makes me doubt the veracity of your claims. I find people who claim to be "superior" to do this out of defensiveness. People who are confident don't have to boast. They let their words speak for themselves.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 59,872
Location: Stendec

14 Nov 2019, 5:52 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Fnord wrote:
There is no known cause for autism, only a plethora of substances, symptoms and conditions associated with it.

Universal negatives are surely wrong.

1. Imagine a child
2. The child does not have autism
3. Car wreck
4. Severe brain injury
5. Child now has autism

Do you not draw the conclusion that the car injury caused the child's autism?
MAYBE.

Did the car wreck actually cause the brain injury?  Did treatment of the child's other injuries cause the child's brain to be damaged?  Was the child allergic to any of the medications it received?  Did it receive enough oxygen on the way to the hospital?  Was the blood the child received fully compatible and free of contaminants?

Again, the car wreck may have been a contributory cause, but not a proximal or immediate cause.

There just is not enough detail in the scenario you presented to draw a definite conclusion.


_________________
 
No love for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian Leadership, Islamic Jihad, other Islamic terrorist groups, OR their supporters and sympathizers.


eikonabridge
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Sep 2014
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 929

14 Nov 2019, 7:35 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
But I don't really like claims of "superiority." Who do you hang out with who are "different"? Usually, when people boast like you just did, it makes me doubt the veracity of your claims. I find people who claim to be "superior" to do this out of defensiveness. People who are confident don't have to boast. They let their words speak for themselves.

Believe it or not, I have addressed this type of comment multiple times, in front of your eyes, but you still don't get it. I hope this time you do pay attention. Alright?

Here are two videos of people talking about Richard Feynman. One from Leonard Susskind. Another one from Murray Gell-Mann. Susskind was upbeat and all excited talking about hanging around with Feynman. Murray Gell-Mann was hurt and resentful. The funny thing is: they were both talking about the same person.




Sure, Feynman had a "gargantuan ego." But somehow, that was zero issue with Susskind. It was Gell-Mann the one that was hurt and resentful.

Let me ask you: which one of the three has the devil living inside them? Which person was the one that truly needed to change and be happy?

The answer is not Richard Feynman. He continues to be liked and admired by millions of people, despite of all his flaws as a person. Gell-Mann was the person that truly had problems. He let his inferiority complex bother him. He is a Nobel Prize winner. But he has inferiority complex.

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. (Eleanor Roosevelt.)

Unfortunately, all too many people forget about this sentence.


_________________
Jason Lu
http://www.eikonabridge.com/


shortfatbalduglyman
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Mar 2017
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,748

14 Nov 2019, 9:09 pm

MRI cost a lot of cash

The insurance is only willing to pay for the MRI when an event occurs where the doctor suspects brain damage

And I had to pay for the Asperger's diagnosis

2004 San Diego $500

Private practice psychiatrist



EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

14 Nov 2019, 11:27 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
EEG. Electroencephalogram.

EKG. Electrocardiogram.


I've had EKGs too because of my arrhythmia problem. Which turned out to be benign.

I had MRI to make sure my motor skills disability was due to brain wiring rather than brain damage.



EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

14 Nov 2019, 11:37 pm

eikonabridge wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
But I don't really like claims of "superiority." Who do you hang out with who are "different"? Usually, when people boast like you just did, it makes me doubt the veracity of your claims. I find people who claim to be "superior" to do this out of defensiveness. People who are confident don't have to boast. They let their words speak for themselves.

Believe it or not, I have addressed this type of comment multiple times


I have no trouble believing that whatsoever. What kraftiekortie said is quite accurate in how people perceive you. And I am sure you hear it all the time, because it's true.



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

14 Nov 2019, 11:41 pm

If you weren’t so arrogant, I feel like people would embrace how you raise your kids.

It’s a nice, holistic approach.

But the superiority thing has just got to go. Who died and made you the Almighty Poobah?

It’s just not nice to be rude to people. People respond more to respectful discourse.



Skilpadde
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Dec 2008
Age: 46
Gender: Female
Posts: 27,019

14 Nov 2019, 11:58 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
They cant diagnose autism via MRI scans for the simple reason that it doesn't work. Autistic brains look the same as NT brains on MRI scans.

Temple Grandin proudly shows her MRI scan of very unique "autistic brain".

Image


A guy on this website was disappointed that his cat scan was "no different than normal".

I suppose that with some autistics a difference shows up in MRI or Cat Scans, and with some it does not.

That's rather dramatic with Temple Grandin.
Just my opinion here, but I think that might go into the thought that autism is not one thing, but an umbrella term for many conditions with similar symptoms.



LoveNotHate wrote:
Fnord wrote:
There is no known cause for autism, only a plethora of substances, symptoms and conditions associated with it.

Universal negatives are surely wrong.

1. Imagine a child
2. The child does not have autism
3. Car wreck
4. Severe brain injury
5. Child now has autism

Do you not draw the conclusion that the car injury caused the child's autism?
No, I would draw the conclusion that either the child was always autistic but not diagnosed, or the child ended up with a brain injury that was misdiagnosed as autism.


_________________
BOLTZ 17/3 2012 - 12/11 2020
Beautiful, sweet, gentle, playful, loyal
simply the best and one of a kind
love you and miss you, dear boy

Stop the wolf kills! https://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeact ... 3091429765


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

15 Nov 2019, 12:07 am

Autism just has so many causes.

This reminds me, in a way, of the “gut dysbiosis” theory.....an all-encompassing potential “treatment” for autism.

A possible panacea....that doesn’t take into account the complexity of autism.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,284

15 Nov 2019, 1:16 am

eikonabridge wrote:
Typical autism is generated by overconnection of neurons: there are too many dendrites towards the ends. So, we even see a large subset of autistic people with large brains. It could also be caused by more intense firing of the neurons.


I'm wondering if this explains the overfiring happening in Temple Grandin's cortex when compared to a control brain under MRI?.

The problem I have observed in the literature is the lack of consistency preventing either MRI or EEG being diagnostic (EEG is only used to predict risk of neural discharge in epileptics but even here it's not really that reliable).



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,284

15 Nov 2019, 1:29 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
They cant diagnose autism via MRI scans for the simple reason that it doesn't work. Autistic brains look the same as NT brains on MRI scans.

Temple Grandin proudly shows her MRI scan of very unique "autistic brain".

Image


Just playing devils advocate here...Temple has severe comorbid anxiety which she manages with medication. Is it not possible the act of putting her in an MRI might trigger an episode of neural discharge like somebody with epilepsy due to her heightened hyper vigilance



Roboto
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

Joined: 22 Jul 2019
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 336

15 Nov 2019, 2:48 am

eikonabridge wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
But I don't really like claims of "superiority." Who do you hang out with who are "different"? Usually, when people boast like you just did, it makes me doubt the veracity of your claims. I find people who claim to be "superior" to do this out of defensiveness. People who are confident don't have to boast. They let their words speak for themselves.

Believe it or not, I have addressed this type of comment multiple times, in front of your eyes, but you still don't get it. I hope this time you do pay attention. Alright?

Here are two videos of people talking about Richard Feynman. One from Leonard Susskind. Another one from Murray Gell-Mann. Susskind was upbeat and all excited talking about hanging around with Feynman. Murray Gell-Mann was hurt and resentful. The funny thing is: they were both talking about the same person.




Sure, Feynman had a "gargantuan ego." But somehow, that was zero issue with Susskind. It was Gell-Mann the one that was hurt and resentful.

Let me ask you: which one of the three has the devil living inside them? Which person was the one that truly needed to change and be happy?

The answer is not Richard Feynman. He continues to be liked and admired by millions of people, despite of all his flaws as a person. Gell-Mann was the person that truly had problems. He let his inferiority complex bother him. He is a Nobel Prize winner. But he has inferiority complex.

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. (Eleanor Roosevelt.)

Unfortunately, all too many people forget about this sentence.

I enjoy your posts and like your perspective.
It would be helpful when people stop interrupting expertise with their enthusiasm in life but that's just not going to happen...



LoveNotHate
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,195
Location: USA

15 Nov 2019, 2:58 am

Skilpadde wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Fnord wrote:
There is no known cause for autism, only a plethora of substances, symptoms and conditions associated with it.

Universal negatives are surely wrong.

1. Imagine a child
2. The child does not have autism
3. Car wreck
4. Severe brain injury
5. Child now has autism

Do you not draw the conclusion that the car injury caused the child's autism?
No, I would draw the conclusion that either the child was always autistic but not diagnosed, or the child ended up with a brain injury that was misdiagnosed as autism.

Autism is simply behavioral traits.

An autism diagnosis doesn't require one to to be born with these behavior traits.

Likely, many brain injuries produce autistic behaviors (autism).

Image


_________________
After a failure, the easiest thing to do is to blame someone else.


ezbzbfcg2
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,936
Location: New Jersey, USA

15 Nov 2019, 4:02 am

Skilpadde wrote:
Just my opinion here, but I think that might go into the thought that autism is not one thing, but an umbrella term for many conditions with similar symptoms.


@Skilpadde: Agreed and seconded. I'm of the same opinion.


LoveNotHate wrote:
Autism is simply behavioral traits.

An autism diagnosis doesn't require one to to be born with these behavior traits.

Likely, many brain injuries produce autistic behaviors (autism).

Image


@LoveNotHate: Cool chart, thanks for posting.



LoveNotHate
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,195
Location: USA

15 Nov 2019, 10:29 am

For me, living with autism is no trouble.

Not socializing? Not really a problem.
Not good at communicating? Not really a problem.

However, living with underlying brain damage is hard every day.

It makes me look forward to being dead.


_________________
After a failure, the easiest thing to do is to blame someone else.