Bernie condemns right-wing coup in Bolivia

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beneficii
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21 Nov 2019, 1:41 am

So the military has forced President Evo Morales to resign in Bolivia, and a massive Bible-waving, anti-indigenous right-winger named Jeanine Anez took his place. She has shown no desire to heal the divide in the Congress, as she has vowed to "pacify" the country and the military has so far killed 23 protesters. She issued a decree exempting them from any criminal responsibility for their actions She did not put a single indigenous person in her cabinet, instead putting a bunch of business people on it. Her interior minister has vowed to "hunt down" Evo Morales.

Bernie Sanders is the only presidential candidate with the cajones to condemn this coup:

https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders ... up-1472847


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beneficii
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21 Nov 2019, 1:47 am

And interestingly, I can't really find this in the English-language mainstream media, but Common Dreams reports that the Bolivian newspaper Los Tiempos reports that the interior minister vows to publish a list of leftist lawmakers he plans to accuse of subversion:

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/ ... st-leftist

Here's the Spanish-language source the author mentioned:

https://www.lostiempos.com/actualidad/p ... -que-hagan

So this is looking more and more like what happened with Pinochet, the brutal Chilean dictator who overthrew the popularly elected President Allende back in the 70s.

EDIT: Here's the article on Google Translate:

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... -que-hagan

EDIT 2: Reading the article, it looks like he also plans to go after leftist journalists as well.


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Antrax
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21 Nov 2019, 2:03 am

Seems like Morales was well on his way to becoming a dictator himself: https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/11/opinions ... index.html

It appears he rigged the election in his favor after blatantly ignoring term limits.


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beneficii
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22 Nov 2019, 4:02 am

Antrax wrote:
Seems like Morales was well on his way to becoming a dictator himself: https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/11/opinions ... index.html

It appears he rigged the election in his favor after blatantly ignoring term limits.


Maybe. I think the term limits issue was decided by their supreme court; granted, those judges were probably Morales's creatures. The thing about the election, I don't know. I'm not sure if this matter will ever be tried or formally reviewed. Rather, the right-wing's accusations will be taken at face value.

A lot of that is really questionable to me, and I get the feeling the Bolivian right-wing is doing this less to "protect democracy" and more to come to power and destroy their left-wing opponents. The police and military using the implicit threat of violence to force the President to resign does not strike me as a constitutional procedure. In addition, Morales had lifted many Bolivians out of poverty, and empowered the indigenous peoples, which the right-wing there seems to hate.


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Antrax
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22 Nov 2019, 12:18 pm

beneficii wrote:

A lot of that is really questionable to me, and I get the feeling the Bolivian right-wing is doing this less to "protect democracy" and more to come to power and destroy their left-wing opponents. The police and military using the implicit threat of violence to force the President to resign does not strike me as a constitutional procedure.


This seems probable, but I think the reason the coup hasn't been condemned is that Morales's government was considered illegitimate at the time. If a leader refuses to step down after rigging an election and ignoring term limits, what is the proper way to remove them?

Like imagine it's 2020, Donald Trump was losing the projected vote totals when suddenly all vote counts stop. 3 days later its announced Trump won the election. Mass protests in the country, but Trump won't leave the White House. At that point would it be acceptable for the military to remove Trump from the presidency?

Honestly, it seems to me if you've gotten to that point all your options are bad. I hope it doesn't happen in the US.


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JohnPowell
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22 Nov 2019, 12:24 pm

The U.S. has no right to remove other leaders. Netanyahu is a corrupt leader who has been in charge longer than Morales but no one would advocate the US removing him. So let's cut the c**p.

If a leader in South America doesn't fit in with US business interests they are removed. Nothing to do with corruption or anything.


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22 Nov 2019, 12:52 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
The U.S. has no right to remove other leaders. Netanyahu is a corrupt leader who has been in charge longer than Morales but no one would advocate the US removing him. So let's cut the c**p.

.


Glad you brought up Netanyahu.

The guy you worship, Donald Trump, is now kissing ass. Kissing the ass the guy you most hate (Netanyahu), and sucking up to the country you most hate (Israel), by declaring that the US considers Israeli settlements on the occupied territories to be legal, which is a near death warrant for (the place you list as your location in your profile) "Palestine".

How do you feel about the fact that your favorite American President is sucking up to the very folks you most hate? And is doing his best to crush your favorite cause?



Antrax
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22 Nov 2019, 1:05 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
The U.S. has no right to remove other leaders. Netanyahu is a corrupt leader who has been in charge longer than Morales but no one would advocate the US removing him. So let's cut the c**p.

If a leader in South America doesn't fit in with US business interests they are removed. Nothing to do with corruption or anything.


There's no evidence the U.S. was involved with this at all... So your response is way off topic.


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beneficii
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22 Nov 2019, 1:10 pm

Antrax wrote:
beneficii wrote:

A lot of that is really questionable to me, and I get the feeling the Bolivian right-wing is doing this less to "protect democracy" and more to come to power and destroy their left-wing opponents. The police and military using the implicit threat of violence to force the President to resign does not strike me as a constitutional procedure.


This seems probable, but I think the reason the coup hasn't been condemned is that Morales's government was considered illegitimate at the time. If a leader refuses to step down after rigging an election and ignoring term limits, what is the proper way to remove them?

Like imagine it's 2020, Donald Trump was losing the projected vote totals when suddenly all vote counts stop. 3 days later its announced Trump won the election. Mass protests in the country, but Trump won't leave the White House. At that point would it be acceptable for the military to remove Trump from the presidency?

Honestly, it seems to me if you've gotten to that point all your options are bad. I hope it doesn't happen in the US.


I believe here in the US, it's Congress that certifies who the winner is, and I know the law provides for objections to the electoral vote count. In addition, faithless electors can also intervene and change their vote. Because of that, to describe an election as rigged and needing to be reversed is meaningless in the US, because legally speaking the national popular vote is irrelevant. The military would have no right to reverse any of this.

If Trump is certified to have lost, and he refuses to leave the White House past the end of his term, heck, they may just leave him in the White House and cut off all funding to it; and the winner of the election would still simply take office and the departments, agencies, military, courts, and Congress would just treat the winner as President. The White House is the symbolic seat of the Presidency, but the President does not have to actually be physically inside it to run the country. The moment Trump leaves the White House, they would arrest him for impersonating an officer of the United States and other crimes.

The issue of term limits I believe was decided by Bolivia's constitutional court. What was in question was the election, and that to me remains unclear.


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Last edited by beneficii on 22 Nov 2019, 1:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

beneficii
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22 Nov 2019, 1:11 pm

Antrax wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
The U.S. has no right to remove other leaders. Netanyahu is a corrupt leader who has been in charge longer than Morales but no one would advocate the US removing him. So let's cut the c**p.

If a leader in South America doesn't fit in with US business interests they are removed. Nothing to do with corruption or anything.


There's no evidence the U.S. was involved with this at all... So your response is way off topic.


I disagree. This has the US written all over it. It fits well with a pattern of behavior going back a century or more.


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Antrax
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22 Nov 2019, 1:27 pm

beneficii wrote:
Antrax wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
The U.S. has no right to remove other leaders. Netanyahu is a corrupt leader who has been in charge longer than Morales but no one would advocate the US removing him. So let's cut the c**p.

If a leader in South America doesn't fit in with US business interests they are removed. Nothing to do with corruption or anything.


There's no evidence the U.S. was involved with this at all... So your response is way off topic.


I disagree. This has the US written all over it. It fits well with a pattern of behavior going back a century or more.


Many coups have happened without the U.S. lifting a finger. There is no evidence the U.S. was involved with this at all. Only conjecture. The evidence at hand suggests that an internal Bolivia coup is entirely plausible.


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EzraS
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22 Nov 2019, 4:50 pm

Nope trump is responsible stop worshiping him and vote democrat.



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23 Nov 2019, 9:39 pm

Has Trump issued an official statement about the Bolivian coup?


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JohnPowell
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24 Nov 2019, 12:19 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
The U.S. has no right to remove other leaders. Netanyahu is a corrupt leader who has been in charge longer than Morales but no one would advocate the US removing him. So let's cut the c**p.

.


Glad you brought up Netanyahu.

The guy you worship, Donald Trump, is now kissing ass. Kissing the ass the guy you most hate (Netanyahu), and sucking up to the country you most hate (Israel), by declaring that the US considers Israeli settlements on the occupied territories to be legal, which is a near death warrant for (the place you list as your location in your profile) "Palestine".

How do you feel about the fact that your favorite American President is sucking up to the very folks you most hate? And is doing his best to crush your favorite cause?


I've answered this point a million times. What the hell is wrong with you? You ignore all the threads I've made against Trump. He's an Israeli puppet and you support apartheid Israel. Remind me, which "folks" do I hate? I'll be glad to get you done for libel.

I actually respect that Zionist Trump is being honest. The US has always supported the illegal settlements because they f**king pay for them.


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28 Nov 2019, 2:42 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Has Trump issued an official statement about the Bolivian coup?


So far, nothing from Trump.

The problem with leaders like Morales and Maduro is their autocratic nature, not necessarily their politics. People like Lula, Michelle Bachelet, the Kirschners and Tabare Vazquez had respect for the rule of law, and if term-limited, stepped down with grace.


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