700,000 Americans Citizens May Lose Food Stamp Benefits

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beneficii
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05 Dec 2019, 4:47 am

EzraS wrote:
beneficii wrote:
You say that like it's a bad thing.


Thats because hard working people like my parents and my aunts and uncles who are parents, will be the ones who end up paying for all that extra free stuff to just about anyone who says 'gimme'.


You make it seem like we're wanting to hand out Bentleys here or something. We're not. It's making sure people have the basic necessities, like food and health care, so they can fulfill their potential. Because how do you have equality of opportunity if you're broke, are barely paying for food or health care to survive, and stuck in a dead-end job?


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05 Dec 2019, 4:55 am

beneficii wrote:
EzraS wrote:
beneficii wrote:
You say that like it's a bad thing.


Thats because hard working people like my parents and my aunts and uncles who are parents, will be the ones who end up paying for all that extra free stuff to just about anyone who says 'gimme'.


You make it seem like we're wanting to hand out Bentleys here or something. We're not. It's making sure people have the basic necessities, like food and health care, so they can fulfill their potential. Because how do you have equality of opportunity if you're broke, are barely paying for food or health care to survive, and stuck in a dead-end job?


"We're"? Are you a Democrat politician? Let's get that part settled before getting into any more possible situations where when I'm talking about them, I'm supposedly talking about you personally.

So what part of "we're" are you, a governor, a senator, a congressperson, a mayor?



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05 Dec 2019, 5:39 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
"The agency said that it found 2.9 million adults on the SNAP rolls were able-bodied and did not have dependents, and it said 2.1 million were not working".

So, 2.1 million people are perfectly fine, no dependents, and FREE LOAD ?

I wonder how many are millionaires living in million dollar homes.

How Millionaires Collect Food Stamps
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-millio ... 1516044026



I think those 2.1 million might belong to the group who want BI, because they feel it's an infringement on their rights to be forced to work if they don't want to. Thinkinginpictures and I argue about that, all the time.

*** Ezra: The old food stamps came mailed in a bundle. Say you were awarded $345/month... You'd get booklets of 20s, 10s, 5s, 1s to equal that amount. They were a little bigger than monopoly money. You'd tear out the amount closest to your purchase in food stamps and they'd give you back in cash $2.22 or something.

I hated it. We were on them for about 18 mos, after my oldest was born. That was like 34 years ago. When I moved back to Florida, I never looked back.


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beneficii
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05 Dec 2019, 6:03 am

EzraS wrote:
beneficii wrote:
EzraS wrote:
beneficii wrote:
You say that like it's a bad thing.


Thats because hard working people like my parents and my aunts and uncles who are parents, will be the ones who end up paying for all that extra free stuff to just about anyone who says 'gimme'.


You make it seem like we're wanting to hand out Bentleys here or something. We're not. It's making sure people have the basic necessities, like food and health care, so they can fulfill their potential. Because how do you have equality of opportunity if you're broke, are barely paying for food or health care to survive, and stuck in a dead-end job?


"We're"? Are you a Democrat politician? Let's get that part settled before getting into any more possible situations where when I'm talking about them, I'm supposedly talking about you personally.

So what part of "we're" are you, a governor, a senator, a congressperson, a mayor?


You really do insist on flattering me. :D

But no, I do not hold political office, nor have I ever. Neither am I nor have I ever run for political office.


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EzraS
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05 Dec 2019, 6:31 am

beneficii wrote:
EzraS wrote:
beneficii wrote:
EzraS wrote:
beneficii wrote:
You say that like it's a bad thing.


Thats because hard working people like my parents and my aunts and uncles who are parents, will be the ones who end up paying for all that extra free stuff to just about anyone who says 'gimme'.


You make it seem like we're wanting to hand out Bentleys here or something. We're not. It's making sure people have the basic necessities, like food and health care, so they can fulfill their potential. Because how do you have equality of opportunity if you're broke, are barely paying for food or health care to survive, and stuck in a dead-end job?


"We're"? Are you a Democrat politician? Let's get that part settled before getting into any more possible situations where when I'm talking about them, I'm supposedly talking about you personally.

So what part of "we're" are you, a governor, a senator, a congressperson, a mayor?


You really do insist on flattering me. :D

But no, I do not hold political office, nor have I ever. Neither am I nor have I ever run for political office.


In that case kindly refrain aligning yourself with them as if you were. Especially when it comes to things like posting in the moderator attention thread that I was attacking you personally when I said they want to control the world.



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05 Dec 2019, 6:37 am

EzraS wrote:
Like the article says, food stamps was never intended to be a way of life. It's supposed to be there for those who have no other alternative as emergency aid. Someone loses their job, they get unemployment pay and food stamps to tide them over. But there are many who make it a way of life rather than go back to work for a living. I am talking about people who are literally being lazy and irresponsible and are taking what belongs to the genuinely needy.



The trouble is the hurdle to prove you are genuinely disabled has been raised by uncivilised right wing governments in the UK and USA.
Such moves have been driven by ideology , and not by any intelligent or rational understanding of what a disability is and how it can affect people .


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EzraS
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05 Dec 2019, 7:54 am

firemonkey wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Like the article says, food stamps was never intended to be a way of life. It's supposed to be there for those who have no other alternative as emergency aid. Someone loses their job, they get unemployment pay and food stamps to tide them over. But there are many who make it a way of life rather than go back to work for a living. I am talking about people who are literally being lazy and irresponsible and are taking what belongs to the genuinely needy.



The trouble is the hurdle to prove you are genuinely disabled has been raised by uncivilised right wing governments in the UK and USA.
Such moves have been driven by ideology , and not by any intelligent or rational understanding of what a disability is and how it can affect people .


It's no hurdle for me. Matter of fact I don't think there's any possibility that I could get declared as anything but disabled. And I'm not even all that disabled compared to many I know of. I mean I can get up out of a chair and go to the bathroom by myself. I can feed myself. Stuff like that which many can't.



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05 Dec 2019, 11:07 am

EzraS wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Then if you know the people who are doing this, turn them in!
... Are you implying if one doesn't actually know such people they are just a myth? ...
No, but that brings up a good point -- if you do not actually know such people, then how do you know they exist?

While I think it is safe to assume such people exist, it would be a mistake to start profiling everyone.


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EzraS
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05 Dec 2019, 11:14 am

Fnord wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Then if you know the people who are doing this, turn them in!
... Are you implying if one doesn't actually know such people they are just a myth? ...
No, but that brings up a good point -- if you do not actually know such people, then how do you know they exist?

While I think it is safe to assume such people exist, it would be a mistake to start profiling everyone.


Do I need to make out a long list of immoral, corrupt and illegal activities that are being committed by people you don't know? Or are being committed by people you do know, but you're unaware of what they are doing in secret?



Last edited by EzraS on 05 Dec 2019, 11:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

Fnord
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05 Dec 2019, 11:21 am

EzraS wrote:
Fnord wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Then if you know the people who are doing this, turn them in!
... Are you implying if one doesn't actually know such people they are just a myth? ...
No, but that brings up a good point -- if you do not actually know such people, then how do you know they exist? While I think it is safe to assume such people exist, it would be a mistake to start profiling everyone.
Do I need to make out a long list of immoral, corrupt and illegal activities that are being committed by people you don't know? Or are being committed by people you do know, but you're unaware of what they are doing in secret?
Oh, no, of course not! I'm only trying to illuminate the division between knowing and assuming!

For instance, while it is safe to assume that everyone lies (the only question is about what), to actually know when someone is lying takes more than just having a low opinion of that person.


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EzraS
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05 Dec 2019, 11:24 am

Perhaps looking up SNAP fraud might shed some light on whether it's a problem or not.

From the US Department of Agriculture:

"How Can I Report SNAP Fraud?

FNS takes aggressive measures to fight all fraud. We appreciate the help of concerned citizens.

Fraud reports of any kind may be filed with the USDA Office of Inspector General.

You can also report fraud to your state. This is especially important if you think someone has lied about their income or assets or is misusing their benefits. Your report is confidential.

Call the USDA Office of Inspector General:

(800) 424-9121

(202) 690-1622

(202) 690-1202 (TDD)

Write:
United States Department of Agriculture Office of Inspector General
PO Box 23399
Washington, DC 20026-3399

Submit a Complaint Online
Help us Fight SNAP Fraud."

https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/integrity/fraud-reporting

That looks like it is based on more than an assumption.



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05 Dec 2019, 11:29 am

I don't deny that SNAP/Welfare fraud is a problem. How to spot it when it happens is the question.


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EzraS
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05 Dec 2019, 11:34 am

The Law Dictionary
Featuring Black's Law Dictionary Free Online Legal Dictionary 2nd Ed.

Penalties For Food Stamp Fraud

Food stamp vouchers are an excellent option for families who are having a difficult time making ends meet. The vouchers are provided by the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) and are used in exchange for food at grocery stores and other participating retailers. Country-wide programs are put in place by the Food and Nutrition Service to ensure that local organizations and State agencies are equipped to help those in their community who are in need.

SNAP benefits are housed on an electronic benefits transer (EBT) card, which functions the same way a debit card would. The amount of food stamps given depends upon the family’s situation. A household with more dependents and less income is generally entitled to a larger food stamp allowance. And as helpful as the SNAP program may be, it is taken advantage of in more ways than one. Below, we’ll take an in-depth look at these transgressions – the different types, how it is handled, and the penalties of food stamp fraud.

Food Stamp Fraud Defined

What is food stamp fraud? When someone intentionally provides misleading information about the size of their household or the amount of their income on an application for food stamps, they may be guilty of food stamp fraud. And while this is the most common form of food stamp fraud, there are other examples that happen more often than you’d think.

SNAP fraud can also take place through:

“SNAP trafficking” (receiving cash in exchange for the SNAP card)
Providing false information about how much money you make
Buying something that is outside the scope of your food stamp benefits
Commiting SNAP retailer fraud

How Is Food Stamp Fraud Tracked?

While food stamp fraud does happen, it is getting harder and harder to get away with it. Tracking fraud and preventing it is a high priority for the government, and they are able to monitor fradulent activity through undercover investigations, regular audits, and retailer/buyer data. With technological advances, it is easier for the USDA to track suspicious behavior and catch those who commit food stamp fraud. But what are the penalties?

Penalties Of Food Stamp Fraud

Agency Investigation

The government agency responsible for dispensation of food stamps may conduct an investigation if they receive information or suspect that someone is committing food stamp fraud. The investigation may include visits to the home of the family who is receiving assistance. It may also involve interviews with family and neighbors who can attest to the size of the household and any income sources.

Legal Action

If the agency believes that food stamp fraud has been committed, then they have several steps available to them. The first of these is a disqualification hearing. During the hearing, the agency must prove that the individual intended to commit fraud. If they are successful at doing so, the person who wrongfully received food stamp assistance may become ineligible for such help for a specified period of time. Moreover, they may be required to repay any amounts received in excess of their rightful entitlement.

It is also possible for the agency to pursue criminal charges at the misdemeanor or felony level. The ability to file criminal charges, and the penalties enforced, vary considerably between counties and states. Nonetheless, individuals who commit food stamp fraud may find themselves facing up to one year in jail and a substantial fine. For subsequent offenses, or for food stamp fraud involving larger dollar amounts, the accused may be facing up to five years in prison, several years of probation or an even bigger fine."


https://thelawdictionary.org/article/pe ... amp-fraud/



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05 Dec 2019, 11:37 am

Again, how do average citizens like us spot SNAP/Welfare fraud? What are the signs? What should we look out for?


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05 Dec 2019, 11:53 am

Fnord wrote:
Again, how do average citizens like us spot SNAP/Welfare fraud? What are the signs? What should we look out for?


I don't see how that is an issue. The issue as I see it is how the government decides who is eligible and who is not. I think the conversation got side tracked over the issue of people who qualified selling their food stamps and whatever.

But the issue of 700,000 people losing food stamp benefits is based on who the government thinks should be cut off. Which sounds to me like deciding who qualifies has been too lax and too broad, so they want to narrow the scope some.

But some want the opposite of that, so they are outraged.



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05 Dec 2019, 12:50 pm

This would be quite similar to "workfare," actually.

It was said that these 700,000 people would have to work 20 hours a week to maintain food stamp eligibility.