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BTDT
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19 Apr 2020, 9:21 am

The 1918 epidemic provided a comparison between cities like St Louis and Philadelphia, showing that lots of lives could be saved by cancelling large group events like parades.



jimmy m
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19 Apr 2020, 9:32 am

New York, New Jersey and Maryland are requiring everyone to wear a mask or a substitute face covering to leave home. The federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has suddenly flipped from urging the public not to wear masks to recommending that they wear something that covers their nose and mouth.

New York’s Mayor Bill de Blasio’s new signature look is a western-style bandana pulled up over his mouth and nose. No doubt he’s well-intentioned. But that kind of face-covering is only a hair better than no covering at all. Science shows it’s a mere 2 percent to 3 percent effective. It’s misleading.

From day one of the coronavirus outbreak, the public has gotten the run around about masks. Government officials need to be honest about what works and what doesn’t. Here’s the scientific evidence:

N95 masks, which are molded and fit tight to the face, filter out 95 percent of viral particles, even the smallest ones. These masks offer the best protection, but they are in short supply, and public officials want them reserved for health care workers on the front lines.

Surgical masks, the kind you see commonly worn in hospitals and dentists’ offices, are flat and held to the face with elastic. They’re made from a nonwoven material, polypropylene, that is a somewhat effective filter. They protect the wearer from about 56 percent of viral droplets emitted by an infected person nearby, according to research in the British Medical Journal.

Not so woven cloth masks. They allow in 97 percent of viral particles. That means almost no protection for the wearer at all.

Wearing a homemade cotton mask is a false assurance, explains epidemiologist May Chu. She says it will block only about 2 percent of airflow. Similarly, a study in Disaster Medical and Public Health Preparedness concludes that a homemade mask should be considered “only as a last resort,” better than no protection at all but not a lot better.

Surgical masks seem available in stores now, and if you can buy a supply, using them is far preferable to making your own. Don’t reuse the mask and avoid touching the outside of the mask, because it’s likely contaminated after use.

If you have to resort to homemade barriers, keep in mind that the more layers of cloth, the better the protection. Four layers likely block out 13 percent of viral droplets, compared with the 2 percent blocked with a single layer, according to a study in Aerosol and Air Quality Research.

Why are public officials suddenly urging mask use, many weeks after the Coronavirus struck? Because of mounting research pointing to the huge role of asymptomatic people spreading the disease before they feel ill. Whenever these asymptomatic carriers talk or simply exhale, they spread very small droplets of virus-laden saliva and respiratory mucous in the air. Scientists call it bioaerosols.

Getting everyone to mask up helps to protect the uninfected, and keeps the unknowingly infected from spreading the virus. As New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said, announcing the mask mandate: “You don’t have a right to infect me.”

Makes sense, but Americans have had to put up with a lot of message confusion from the outset, and now they’re getting misleading advice about homemade masks.

What’s the root problem? Year after year after year, through three presidencies, federal health bureaucrats ignored warnings about inadequate supplies of masks and other equipment in the event of a pandemic. Ten federal reports sounded the alarm, even as the nation witnessed SARS, MERS, avian flu and swine flu that circled the globe. In 2009, during the swine flu outbreak, the federal Strategic National Stockpile dispersed 85 million N95 masks, as well as other protective masks. The masks were never replaced afterward.

Don’t blame any president, Democratic or Republican, for this oversight. The career officials at Health and Human Services knowingly allowed the nation to be undersupplied. They never requested enough money to adequately stock the Strategic National Stockpile. Their agenda was global, tracking down polio in Pakistan, pouring nearly $5 billion in the fight against Ebola overseas, and funding a Global Health Security Agenda serving 49 countries. But no masks for Americans.

When the coronavirus struck here, the CDC offered only mask double talk. The agency said on the one hand masks are vital to protect health care workers, and on the other hand, masks won’t make the public safer. It defies common sense. The agency should have leveled with people, admitting supplies had to be saved for front line caregivers.

The coronavirus could return next winter. Or another viral pandemic could strike from any part of the globe. The bill Congress enacted in late March allocates $16 billion to the Strategic National Stockpile, nearly 30 times its annual budget. Next time the U.S. will have enough masks.

Source: Coronavirus masks – what works, new rules and explaining the shortage

When the current pandemic dies down, I recommend that everyone purchase a box of N95's once these masks become available again and the prices return back to normal. You have a right to protect your lives and N95's or better will help accomplish that. This is especially important for those individuals that regularly use mass transit. This coronavirus may return in the fall so be prepared.


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jimmy m
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19 Apr 2020, 9:46 am

AspiePrincess611 wrote:
Deadly to the weakest 0.5% of the population? Big freaking deal. It's called natural selection people. Survival of the fittest.


That may be a logical approach until such time as the coronavirus threatens YOUR LIFE.

The threat of dying not only targets the elderly but also those with co-morbidities such as high blood pressure, heart disease, diabetes etc. Many of these conditions are linked to being overweight. Overweight young people may also succumb to this disease. Aspies are known to have more medical issues than NTs. Therefore as a group we are more vulnerable.


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BTDT
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19 Apr 2020, 10:14 am

The current thinking is that if we have the technology to save lives, we should do so.
Problem is, we have only a limited number of medical professionals and equipment, so
they can only save so many people at any given time.

Suppose we let everyone get infected at once just to get it over with.
Who should we save? The highest bidder for a ventilator? Celebrities? Doctors and Nurses?
Nobody?
We don't have the leadership to make those kinds of decisions in the USA.
Not by a long shot.

The governor of Connecticut wants to save everyone. Even those who are disabled.



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19 Apr 2020, 10:21 am

AspiePrincess611 wrote:
Deadly to the weakest 0.5% of the population? Big freaking deal. It's called natural selection people. Survival of the fittest. Why did this not happen with H1N1 or SARS? This has been blown way out of proportion. Let nature take its course. If the weakest humans die, so be it. Too bad, so sad. Sorry to be cold but I have autism and lack empathy :twisted: :D It's the way it works in nature and humans need to stop trying to control what is nature's/God's will.

One off topic response, apologies Jimmy.

Your stated lack of empathy is a personality/individual trait, not an autistic trait.


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19 Apr 2020, 10:34 am

Quote:
People with autism and learning difficulties will be allowed to exercise more than once a day during the Covid-19 lockdown, according to updated guidance from the UK Government.



jimmy m
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19 Apr 2020, 1:33 pm

China moved quickly to shut down travel domestically from Wuhan to the rest of China, but did not stop international flights from Wuhan.

[Peter Navarro] added that “more importantly, we know that for a critical six-week period of time, China used its influence at the World Health Organization to hide the virus from the world. This was a time where that virus could have been contained in Wuhan; instead, 5 million Chinese people went out from Wuhan and propagated the virus around the world.”

“During that period of time, that six-week interval when they were hiding this virus from the world, China went from a net exporter of personal protective equipment, they are the largest producer of that in the world, to a large net importer,” Navarro said. “They basically went around and vacuumed up virtually all of the PPE around the world, including a lot from this country, which was for humanitarian reasons sharing our PPE with them, and what that did was leave people in New York, Milan, and everywhere in-between defenseless when it came time to have that PPE.”

“Now what's happening today, which is equally alarming, is China is sitting on that hoard of PPE where it cornered the market and is profiteering,” he continued. “I have cases that are coming across my desk where $0.50 masks made in China are being sold to hospitals here in America for as much as $8.”

Source: China 'cornered' the personal protective equipment market and 'is profiteering' during coronavirus outbreak


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19 Apr 2020, 1:39 pm

^ We had a video link back in this thread (I think) of a Chinese woman going around to multiple American stores and buying up all the masks and loading them into her car. This was obviously coordinated -- some kind of instruction was send from the Chinese government to expats/emigrants to do this in their respective countries. Lots of legal questions involved that I hope will be pursued -- were these people acting as unregistered foreign agents, could their actions be considered terrorism, etc.

(Also, there was a video of a Chinese woman going around a US department store and deliberately rubbing her hands over all the display items. If an action like that was done under instruction, it certainly sounds like coordinated terrorism to me.)


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19 Apr 2020, 1:56 pm

domineekee wrote:
People with autism and learning difficulties will be allowed to exercise more than once a day during the Covid-19 lockdown, according to updated guidance from the UK Government.



Shh. Don't say anything. I got my mom convinced the Queen says I can't go outside to smoke bowls. :lol: :clown:


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19 Apr 2020, 2:09 pm

jimmy m wrote:
AspiePrincess611 wrote:
Deadly to the weakest 0.5% of the population? Big freaking deal. It's called natural selection people. Survival of the fittest.


That may be a logical approach until such time as the coronavirus threatens YOUR LIFE.

The threat of dying not only targets the elderly but also those with co-morbidities such as high blood pressure, heart disease, diabetes etc. Many of these conditions are linked to being overweight. Overweight young people may also succumb to this disease. Aspies are known to have more medical issues than NTs. Therefore as a group we are more vulnerable.

You are wrong. I'm perfectly willing to die for my beliefs. You are entitled to your opinions and I am entitled to mine. I will not debate with you though so don't try to get me to. It is as futile as arguing with a toddler. I do not engage with liberals.


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19 Apr 2020, 2:18 pm

You don't have to take that tone towards someone who is always respectful and additionally an elder who deserves more respect. :ninja:


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kraftiekortie
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19 Apr 2020, 2:35 pm

Jimmy is not a liberal, by the way.



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19 Apr 2020, 5:51 pm

AspiePrincess611 wrote:
jimmy m wrote:
AspiePrincess611 wrote:
Deadly to the weakest 0.5% of the population? Big freaking deal. It's called natural selection people. Survival of the fittest.


That may be a logical approach until such time as the coronavirus threatens YOUR LIFE.

The threat of dying not only targets the elderly but also those with co-morbidities such as high blood pressure, heart disease, diabetes etc. Many of these conditions are linked to being overweight. Overweight young people may also succumb to this disease. Aspies are known to have more medical issues than NTs. Therefore as a group we are more vulnerable.

You are wrong. I'm perfectly willing to die for my beliefs. You are entitled to your opinions and I am entitled to mine. I will not debate with you though so don't try to get me to. It is as futile as arguing with a toddler. I do not engage with liberals.


Mod note: It is perfectly ok for you to choose not to engage in a debate or respond to someone, however please be aware that demeaning other members who don't share your views or political beliefs is against the rules. So please cease those slurs aimed at others as your posting in this thread is causing concern which has been reported by a number of rule-abiding members.



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19 Apr 2020, 5:55 pm

jimmy m wrote:
New York, New Jersey and Maryland are requiring everyone to wear a mask or a substitute face covering to leave home. The federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has suddenly flipped from urging the public not to wear masks to recommending that they wear something that covers their nose and mouth.


<yawn>
As per usual, I was ahead of the curve.
Silly NTs eventually catch up. :mrgreen:

kraftiekortie wrote:
Jimmy is not a liberal, by the way.


That is hilarious: Jimmy being a "liberal". :mrgreen:



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19 Apr 2020, 6:01 pm

blooiejagwa wrote:
You don't have to take that tone towards someone who is always respectful and additionally an elder who deserves more respect. :ninja:


Jimmy is the wisest, most knowledgable, helpful and respectful person on this website, I know.
It is my job to counter that.
Ying and yang, sort of thingie. :mrgreen:



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19 Apr 2020, 6:10 pm

Darmok wrote:
^ We had a video link back in this thread (I think) of a Chinese woman going around to multiple American stores and buying up all the masks and loading them into her car. This was obviously coordinated -- some kind of instruction was send from the Chinese government to expats/emigrants to do this in their respective countries. Lots of legal questions involved that I hope will be pursued -- were these people acting as unregistered foreign agents, could their actions be considered terrorism, etc.


There are laws being implemented, here in Australia, to counter this.

Darmok wrote:
(Also, there was a video of a Chinese woman going around a US department store and deliberately rubbing her hands over all the display items. If an action like that was done under instruction, it certainly sounds like coordinated terrorism to me.)


I lean towards thinking that that Asian woman may have been reacting to racial abuse, because of the "Chinese flu".
I see the possibility of a form of defiance.

Though I am not chinese, the last time I checked, I have been on the receiving end of gang stalking, and have acted in a defiant manner also.

SpiceWolf wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
A man in Australia has tested positive for COVID-19 3 times after recovering from the illness.


No, he wasn't in Australia, the man was a Chinese national in China, but the newspaper sort of buried that way down the end.


So he wasn't Australian...
Huh...