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goldfish21
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02 May 2020, 1:03 pm

Darmok wrote:
This sounds about right. The petty dictators are losing their grip and being humiliated, and so some of them are doubling down, which in a mostly-still-free country causes them to lose their grip even more as free people resist.

Image


If this sounds about right to you then wherever your from should probably consider investing a bit more money into public education so that people have some basic understanding of science.


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TheRobotLives
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02 May 2020, 1:20 pm

In Michigan (lock down state), I am see most open store/restaurant workers DONT wear masks and/or gloves.

They aren't required.

Well, it's hard to breathe and work in them.


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goldfish21
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02 May 2020, 5:12 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
In Michigan (lock down state), I am see most open store/restaurant workers DONT wear masks and/or gloves.

They aren't required.

Well, it's hard to breathe and work in them.


Gloves are stupid unless you’re only touching one potentially contaminated thing and then throwing them out, like a doctor or nurse. Otherwise just don’t touch your face and wash your hands.

Masks are Not hard to work and breathe in, especially loose fitting basic cloth masks or surgical masks. Even sealed-fit respirators are not hard to work and breathe in. I sometimes wear a P100 respirator all day at work.

It’s a lie that it’s hard to work or breathe while wearing a mask. Doctors, nurses, dentists, dental assistants, construction workers like myself, asbestos abatement crews, hazmat workers etc etc all prove on a daily basis that it’s not hard to work or breathe while wearing a mask.

What gives you the idea that it is hard to work or breathe while wearing a mask?? :?


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TheRobotLives
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02 May 2020, 7:37 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
What gives you the idea that it is hard to work or breathe while wearing a mask?? :?

I asked a worker today, and the worker replied, "It's hot back here".

Just try one on and you will see how miserable it would be to work a hectic food job in one of these ....
Image


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02 May 2020, 7:47 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
What gives you the idea that it is hard to work or breathe while wearing a mask?? :?


Speaking only for myself, experience. YMMV



goldfish21
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02 May 2020, 8:01 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
What gives you the idea that it is hard to work or breathe while wearing a mask?? :?

I asked a worker today, and the worker replied, "It's hot back here".

Just try one on and you will see how miserable it would be to work a hectic food job in one of these ....
Image


I’ve worn a cloth mask like the one above to go grocery shopping - doesn’t protect me much, but is respectful of others so they don’t breathe my breath.

I wear one like this at work to protect me:

[img]https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/6591F/half-facepiece-respirator-assembly-6191-automotive-part-07001.jpg[/

Sometimes all day. It’s not something I <3 wearing, but it is manageable. One guy I worked with on one site wore one All The Time even though his trade doesn’t even necessitate it. He just didn’t want to breathe in crap from demolition of decades old hospital rooms.

I can easily wear one for hours at a time. The worst is if it’s not adjusted quite right and slips or digs into my chin a bit. And it does make you perspire a bit more, especially in the Summer, but it’s alright. It’s not hard to breathe & does filter out fine dust (from my sanding) And also other particulates like pollen, bacteria, and viruses - to a better degree than N95 masks.

No one Wants to mask up. But it Is doable.


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02 May 2020, 8:55 pm

The mandatory facemask requirement should only be for those showing symptoms, those at risk and those in the service industry.

Throwing people off buses or arresting them for not wearing a mask is pointless and is just punishing ordinary people because of lax border control back in January/February when swarms of Chinese and tourists were allowed back into the US without any form check/testing.



goldfish21
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02 May 2020, 9:14 pm

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goldfish21
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02 May 2020, 9:18 pm

cyberdad wrote:
The mandatory facemask requirement should only be for those showing symptoms, those at risk and those in the service industry.

Throwing people off buses or arresting them for not wearing a mask is pointless and is just punishing ordinary people because of lax border control back in January/February when swarms of Chinese and tourists were allowed back into the US without any form check/testing.


STRONGLY DISAGREE.

Are you the last guy on Earth to learn that asymptomatic carriers are spreading this virus everywhere? :?

Everyone should have to wear masks in public places like stores and on airplanes or busses etc.

Not so much outdoors where fresh air circulates.

But indoors it’s only respectful to all others to wear a mask and ensure no one else is breathing the droplets from your breath.

That’s how we stop this thing from spreading and having outbreaks. Have you not noticed the examples set by Asian countries where right away almost everyone masked up and the result was very few cases?


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02 May 2020, 9:24 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
The mandatory facemask requirement should only be for those showing symptoms, those at risk and those in the service industry.

Throwing people off buses or arresting them for not wearing a mask is pointless and is just punishing ordinary people because of lax border control back in January/February when swarms of Chinese and tourists were allowed back into the US without any form check/testing.


STRONGLY DISAGREE.

Are you the last guy on Earth to learn that asymptomatic carriers are spreading this virus everywhere? :?

Everyone should have to wear masks in public places like stores and on airplanes or busses etc.

Not so much outdoors where fresh air circulates.

But indoors it’s only respectful to all others to wear a mask and ensure no one else is breathing the droplets from your breath.

That’s how we stop this thing from spreading and having outbreaks. Have you not noticed the examples set by Asian countries where right away almost everyone masked up and the result was very few cases?


Stupid people don't understand science.


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02 May 2020, 9:25 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
In Michigan (lock down state), I am see most open store/restaurant workers DONT wear masks and/or gloves.

They aren't required.

Well, it's hard to breathe and work in them.


Gloves are stupid unless you’re only touching one potentially contaminated thing and then throwing them out, like a doctor or nurse. Otherwise just don’t touch your face and wash your hands.


I have an easy solution to the glove issue. Being rather old, I still subscribe to the local newspaper. It often come wrapped in a plastic bag. I just reuse the plastic bags when I need to go out an handle doors, elevator buttons, etc. The bags get put into another larger bag that I send to recycling at the end of the month. The virus does not live on the plastic very long as it sits for days before I send it out, so there is very little risk to the recycling workers picking it up at the end.



goldfish21
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02 May 2020, 9:49 pm

^ those type of bags can’t be sent out with our curbside recycling but I Think we can take them to a depot along with other materials.

I have several plastic grocery bags in the trunk of my car that I can use as gloves to pump gas and then discard right away before getting back in my car.

And if people don’t have excess plastic bags, rather than buy gloves it’s been recommended to buy a roll of dog poo bags from a dollar store and use them for things like pumping gas.

But overall gloves are pretty useless for tasks like grocery shopping if you’re touching item after item and thing after thing with the same gloves. Just use your hands, don’t touch your face, and wash up afterwards.


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02 May 2020, 9:54 pm

I understand the science behind "shedding the virus" when you are asymptomatic.

If you are at risk then you should be wearing protection and staying locked indoors anyway not wandering the streets.



goldfish21
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02 May 2020, 10:02 pm

cyberdad wrote:
I understand the science behind "shedding the virus" when you are asymptomatic.

If you are at risk then you should be wearing protection and staying locked indoors anyway not wandering the streets.


Most masks available to civilians aren’t seal-to-your-face N95 masks or P100 respirators that protect You. They’re simple surgical mask style masks that filter a bit of the air you breathe in but don’t offer much protection for the wearer. The point of them is to block the breath we exhale from spreading our droplets around so others don’t breathe out breath in. So even saying higher risk people should just mask up won’t protect them Unless they’re proper fitted masks/respirators that seal to their faces.

“My mask protects you, your mask protects me.”

So, yeah, I stand by what I wrote earlier. Everyone should be masking up while in public places to be respectful of others & stop the spread of this thing.

It doesn’t help things if a bunch of covidiots don’t wear masks and end up being asymptomatic spreaders.

At some point even higher risk people will be out of their homes and partially back to life and work. Why shouldn’t everyone wear masks to help protect them? It’s really not that difficult at all to wear a basic face mask and Is quite rude and disrespectful not to.


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02 May 2020, 10:26 pm

Anti-Vaccination Activists Are Growing Force at Virus Protests

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The protest on Friday in Sacramento urging California’s governor to reopen the state resembled the rallies that have appeared elsewhere in the country, with crowds flocking to the State Capitol, pressing leaders to undo restrictions on businesses and daily life.

But the organizers were not militia members, restaurant owners or prominent conservative operatives. They were some of the loudest anti-vaccination activists in the country.

The people behind the rally are founders of a group, the Freedom Angels Foundation, which is best known in California for its opposition to state efforts to mandate vaccinations. And the protest was the latest example of the overlapping interests that have connected a range of groups — including Tea Party activists and armed militia groups — to oppose the measures that governors have taken to stop the spread of the coronavirus.

Activists known for their opposition to vaccines have also been involved in protests in New York, Colorado and Texas, where they have found a welcome audience for their arguments for personal freedom and their suspicion of government. But their growing presence at the protests worries public health experts who fear that their messaging could harm the United States’ ability to turn a corner following the pandemic if Americans do not accept a future vaccine.

“One of the things that we’re finding is that the rhetoric is pretty similar between the anti-vaxxers and those demanding to reopen,” said Dr. Rupali J. Limaye, who studies behavior around vaccines at Johns Hopkins University. “What we hear a lot of is ‘individual self management’ — this idea that they should be in control of making decisions, that they can decide what science is correct and incorrect, and that they know what’s best for their child.”

Heidi Muñoz Gleisner, one of the three women who hosted the rally in Sacramento on Friday and were arrested by the police, said the stay-at-home orders that are now expiring in many states had mobilized people who span a variety of groups focused on individual liberty.

“My hope and prayer is that all Americans stand up and take notice that they have to be actively engaged with their government,” Ms. Muñoz Gleisner said on Saturday, when she returned to the Capitol grounds to let her son play in the grass. “From Day 1, it’s been difficult that we’re always castigated as anti-vaccine, and these protests are castigated as anti-lockdown. We have always been about freedom.”

In recent years, Ms. Muñoz Gleisner and the two other founding members of the Freedom Angels, Denise Aguilar and Tara Thornton, have organized people in California and New Jersey against bills that crack down on residents who are exempt from vaccinations and the doctors who were granting the exemptions.

Many were galvanized by a 2015 fight over a state bill introduced in response to a measles outbreak at Disneyland.

In New York, Rita Palma, who runs a blog and seeks to halt mandatory vaccinations, voiced support for the California protest and joined one herself in Albany, where she interviewed protesters and streamed the rally on her Facebook page. And Jonathan Lockwood, a consultant who has worked with conservatives in several states on matters including opposition to the California vaccination bill last year, founded the ReopenAmerica Project, which urges lawmakers to get the country “back up and running.”

Experts who study the groups tied to the protests say some are united in part by their belief in conspiracy theories, including some that assert dangers in vaccinating children, which the overwhelming majority of American parents do.

In addition to those who are skeptical of or resistant to vaccinations, the coalition of protesters has included resurrected Tea Party activists, armed militia groups and protesters carrying Confederate flags, as well as some merely demanding to open their businesses, according to experts who have been studying the movements.

“There is a tremendous amount of cross-pollinization of ideas as these factions get to know each other,” said Devin Burghart, who runs the Institute for Research and Education on Human Rights, a Seattle-based research center on far right groups.

For example, an adherent of QAnon, a group of conspiracy theorists, was among the first to spread the canard that Bill Gates, the billionaire founder of Microsoft, was behind the creation and spreading of the virus as a means to grab control over the global health system. People opposing mandatory vaccinations quickly picked up on that theme, and Mr. Gates has become a new boogeyman of the far right.

The effect of more people choosing to forego vaccinations for their children could be devastating for public health during and after the coronavirus pandemic, medical experts say.

Richard Pan, a California state senator and a physician who wrote the bills tightening vaccine laws in the state, said the activists had simply rushed toward the latest opportunity to push their views, which, if implemented, would lead to more people falling ill.

“These groups all ultimately have the same message: We want you to get sick,” Mr. Pan said.

Early childhood immunization rates have dropped in recent years, and many parents have already postponed well-child checkups in recent months to avoid doctors’ offices.

Dr. Limaye, the scientist, said she and her colleagues who encourage families to vaccinate children have found the presence of vaccination skeptics at protests “terrifying,” not only because it could encourage families to forgo traditional shots but because it could spell disaster for any future coronavirus vaccine. If the eventual vaccine requires a high level of vaccinations to establish herd immunity, such as with measles, then getting the public to buy in is vital to eliminating the virus.

A coronavirus vaccine’s success “is going to be very dependent on whether the public will accept a vaccine or not, because we need a level of herd immunity to prevent a future outbreak,” Dr. Limaye said. “Otherwise it’s just going to continue circulating in the population.”


Anti-lockdown protesters stage mass hug near Parliament in defiance of distancing rules
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Anti-lockdown protesters stage mass hug near Parliament in defiance of distancing rules

The group of around 20 people gathered to protest including children and elderly people, according to the Mirror.

They huddled together while holding their signs, in defiance of government guidelines urging people to stay two metres apart from each other.

Members of the protest can be seen being spoken to by police officers.

It is currently against lockdown laws to leave home without a “reasonable excuse”.

Reasons include exercise, shopping and caring duties, but not protesting.


More than a thousand gather at Wisconsin State Capitol to protest restrictions as coronavirus cases rise
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More than a thousand people cheering "USA" and "open up" gathered on the steps of the Wisconsin State Capitol on Friday to protest Gov. Tony Evers' restrictions on their daily lives, rallying in close quarters on a day the state saw its highest daily increase in positive cases of coronavirus.

The crowd stood shoulder to shoulder — physically and in solidarity — in defiance of the Democratic governor's order to keep businesses and schools closed, and people apart, in an effort to limit the spread of highly contagious virus for which there is no vaccine.

Circulating among the crowd were petitions to recall Evers and signs that said "All Workers Are Essential" and "Death ... is preferable to communism."

Dozens, perhaps hundreds, of American flags accompanied the protesters and some openly carried assault-style rifles. A guillotine also was on the Capitol steps among protesters.

Nurses place candles in silent counter-protest
The same day as the protest, Wisconsin saw its highest daily increase in confirmed positive cases of the virus — 304. Thursday night, nurses lined the state Capitol steps with 1,300 electronic candles in tribute to those currently hospitalized with COVID-19 in Wisconsin. The candles were meant to be a silent counter-protest



'Freedom' protest against coronavirus orders leads to arrests at California Capitol
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They came with babies strapped to their chests, flags waving and even a speedboat parked at the curb to symbolize California's closed beaches.

Hundreds of people — likely more than 1,000 — crowded around the California State Capitol on Friday to protest Gov. Gavin Newsom's social distancing orders amid a pandemic that has now killed more than 2,000 Californians.

With nary a mask in sight, protesters called Newsom a tyrant and showed their support for President Trump, evidenced by Trump 2020 gear everywhere, including for sale. But despite the president's back-and-forth support of social distancing, most were quick to absolve him of their anger over current conditions in the Golden State.

The demonstration was unauthorized and not permitted by the California Highway Patrol, but CHP officers did not disperse protesters until late in the afternoon when tense moments led to a handful of arrests.

A woman who identified herself only as Michelle expressed outrage as multiple California Highway Patrol officers secured her wrists with plastic ties.

"We were peacefully assembling and I am getting arrested," she fumed as her 14-year-old daughter stood by, separated from other family members. The young girl fled past the line of officers in tactical gear with batons out, into a press of protesters, searching for her sister.

Other protests took place elsewhere in California on Friday, along with actions by grocery clerks, warehouse employees and other frontline workers who say employers are not protecting them from the contagion.

The Capitol rally kicked off just as Newsom was giving his daily briefing a few blocks away. Asked about the protest at the still-closed building, Newsom said he supports the right to civic action and promised announcements about changes to closure orders in coming days.

"I believe in freedom of expression," he said. "And thank them for their expression of free speech.”


Thousands of people storm California beaches to protest closures
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Thousands of protesters have flocked to Huntington Beach to protest coronavirus lockdowns in the days following a mandatory closure of Orange County beaches. Angered by the forced closures, the protesters ignored social distancing guidelines and demanded the beaches be reopened.

Crowds took to the streets Friday — many without face masks — backing up traffic for at least a mile along Pacific Coast Highway, The Associated Press reports. "Freedom is essential," "Surfing is not a crime" and "Newsom is a kook" read some of their signs, which also called for the reopening of all businesses.

On Thursday, Newsom announced the decision to close Orange County beaches. He again stressed that the "vast majority" of Californians have followed the stay-at-home order and social distancing guidelines, but said "specific issues" on some beaches "have raised alarm bells."

Huntington Beach, Newport Beach and Dana Point city councils attempted to challenge the closures but were refused by a judge on Friday.

"Huntington Beach has never been one to just roll over and take these mandates from the governor," said Huntington Beach city attorney Michael Gates. "We're going to be fighting the order on a constitutional basis. We're fighting for the city. We're fighting for our decision-makers locally who have done a good job managing this crisis. We're also fighting for the citizens of Huntington Beach."

On Thursday, Newsom announced the decision to close Orange County beaches. He again stressed that the "vast majority" of Californians have followed the stay-at-home order and social distancing guidelines, but said "specific issues" on some beaches "have raised alarm bells."

Huntington Beach, Newport Beach and Dana Point city councils attempted to challenge the closures but were refused by a judge on Friday.

"Huntington Beach has never been one to just roll over and take these mandates from the governor," said Huntington Beach city attorney Michael Gates. "We're going to be fighting the order on a constitutional basis. We're fighting for the city. We're fighting for our decision-makers locally who have done a good job managing this crisis. We're also fighting for the citizens of Huntington Beach."


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 02 May 2020, 10:51 pm, edited 5 times in total.

cyberdad
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02 May 2020, 10:34 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
The point of them is to block the breath we exhale from spreading our droplets around so others don’t breathe out breath in. So even saying higher risk people should just mask up won’t protect them Unless they’re proper fitted masks/respirators that seal to their faces.

“My mask protects you, your mask protects me.”

So, yeah, I stand by what I wrote earlier. Everyone should be masking up while in public places to be respectful of others & stop the spread of this thing.

It doesn’t help things if a bunch of covidiots don’t wear masks and end up being asymptomatic spreaders.

At some point even higher risk people will be out of their homes and partially back to life and work. Why shouldn’t everyone wear masks to help protect them? It’s really not that difficult at all to wear a basic face mask and Is quite rude and disrespectful not to.


I take your points. However, the biology behind asymptomatic spread is not that well understood. The CDC have mentioned that (as with normal influenza) the risk of infection is much reduced when you are asymptomatic...why? because being asymptomatic means the virus is not multiplying in your body, If it was multiplying then the body reactions - inflammation of mucosal linkings result in coughing and sneezing and epidermal rashes etc.

The only research that seems to be coming out on the topic of asymptomatic spread is from China which is subject to some level of suspicion.

Australia is choosing to go down the no-face mask route and we have one of the lowest death rates in the world. Hardly a nation of covidiots :roll: