Jogger shot in Georgia for being Black

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Persephone29
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17 May 2020, 10:31 am

green0star wrote:
Exactly why I hate this crap hole and really resent the fact that my dad dragged my mom and I down here to retire <,<



Retire? You must be older, then?

Why don't you go back to where it's better? I would. If I hated where I was, I wouldn't spend a minute more there.


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cyberdad
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18 May 2020, 3:26 am

Persephone29 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
Of all the suggestions you could make, I never thought it would be this one. I expected you to say something like steal one half of the white's land and money and give it all to the blacks. But, not kidnapping.
So basically what you are after is everyone being a nice shade of beige? What a boring world that would be. I like color.


I think you misunderstand. Aboriginals have been forcibly assimilated already.

In the US Jim crow laws forbid miscegenation between Africans Americans and whites. Even though those laws were revoked in the 1960s there is still a huge stigma against interracial relationships and the symptoms of can still be seen when a African American trespasses into white spaces in the US. The #while being black has become a popular meme. Another one I saw recently (and there seems to be hundreds) includes cutting white peoples lawn while being black. That one is the most preposterous where a black gardener was harassed by police when he was employed to cut grass in a predominately white neighbourhood.


White Americans think blacks complain too much. The invention of the mobile phone means their daily torment can now be filmed and passed on to radio stations/newspapers.



I know many interracial couples and their children. It's not near as taboo as people claim. It was taboo in the past, but the younger generations are not following in the footsteps of their parents. I know for myself and I've said this here before, I would much rather my kids and grand kids marry a motivated black individual, than a white loser any day.

There will always be people who hold unreasonable hatred in their hearts. I don't know what to do about those people, do you?


I think the appropriate answer is it shouldn't matter whom your children marry so long as they love that person and your future in-law is a good person to them.



Brictoria
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18 May 2020, 8:33 am

Going back to the original premis of this thread, it seems unlikely that this was a case of the jogger having been shot for being black.

From what I have been seen reported, the owner of the house under construction (who lived several hours from the house) had been experiencing issues with items going missing and trespassers from some time, leading to the local police department on Decmeber 20 last year suggesting that the owner call the McMichaels (who lived nearby and was "retired law enforcement"), indicating there had been a number of calls and\or that the police had been unable to reach the property in time to catch the person(s) who were on the property.

Then, on February 11, Mr McMichael actually saw a person running from the house and called "911" to report it. During the call he mentioned that there had been a number of burglaries in the area. He also mentioned the person who ran from the house had been reaching into his pocket as he ran and was concerned that he may have been armed. It also appears that a handgun had been stolen from his truck in the previous 2 weeks (WHY you would leave an unsecured weapon in a vehicle I do not know).

Although there had been no burgalry reports filed for months, it also appears that in the preceeding 6 months, 87 calls from the area had been made to police regarding various activity, including suspicious behavior, trespassing and thefts.

In further background, Mr Arbery had previously been arrested for firearm possesion and later for shoplifting, where Mr McMichael was involved in the related investigation.

On the day of the shooting, it appears that the McMichaels were made aware of someone running from the property and moved to stop them. Not having seen the footage (I'm not really into watching that sort of thing), it seems that they were parked across an intersection, and that Mr Arbery ran around their vehicle, then turned to move towards one of the McMichaels and to wrestle with him for his gun (my understanding is that one of the stots went into Mr Arbery's hand in a way that would have indicated he wa trying to grab the barrel of the gun when it discharged).

Based on this, I fail to see how it can be claimed that this shooting was a case of a couple of "rednecks" going out with the intention to shoot a black person as has been implied in several posts here.

Sources:
https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/sus ... djvXrE6sN/
https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/rec ... FWbKfApmJ/
https://www.sentinelsource.com/mcclatch ... b1dfa.html


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Brictoria
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18 May 2020, 9:06 am

cyberdad wrote:
Aboriginal people in Australia and African Americans in the US were both restricted on where they could move up to the 1960s. But today the aboriginals have largely assimilated and (at least in Victoria) into mainstream Australian populations. No longer white spaces here. How did it happen?

A typical aboriginal family is indistinguishable from an average Aussie family because a of a policy of forced assimilation during the 1900s where children were taken from aboriginal families into christian missions and then fostered in white families. Over 3 generations they totally lost their identity as can be seen by this government poster (it was Australian government policy)

Image


I'd be interested to see a copy of this policy, as although I have heard many reports of it existing, no-one has ever been able to produce a copy when I have asked to see it.

I do know that in the late 1800's - mid 1900's, a number of Aboriginal children were removed from their parents in cases of neglect, and were sent to missions to be cared for, as well as a number of parents sending their children away in order that they have better opportunities for their future. In some cases, it is possible that the child welfare officers may have been too zealous in removing children, but all the reports I have seen indicate the children were removed for their welfare rather than their colour as you imply.

It is also interesting to note that those who were removed are generally in a better educational and financial situation than those who still live in tribal settlements. In fact, we had a former Prime Minister who spent a week or more each year out helping at these settlements (and had been doing this prior to entering politics as far as I am aware) who was attacked for not caring about these people. It is also common for money set aside to help these people in the settlements who are extemely disadvantaged being granted to the assimilated aboriginals, further disadvantaging them.

And for a little background: My Grandfather was the manager of an Aboriginal mission. I remember how a number of the people from the mission attended his funeral many years ago, where I had the opportunity to speak to them. Additionally, my mother-in-law's partner is one of the "stolen generation" and he has said that being taken away from his family was the best thing that happened to him. He regularly goes back to his home country and has seen what happened to others he grew up with who were not "stolen". in fact, the most vocal critics of this removal of children comes not from the families in the settlements where the children were removed from, but from those who received the most advantages, yet elect to live away from the families they were "stolen" from (on a side note, it's amazing how many of these people want "compensation" for their removal, yet how few would appear willing to give up their lifestyle and move back to their tribe's land to live were they to receive it).


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TheRobotLives
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18 May 2020, 11:08 am

Brictoria wrote:
Based on this, I fail to see how it can be claimed that this shooting was a case of a couple of "rednecks" going out with the intention to shoot a black person as has been implied in several posts here.

Considerations:
-the initial confrontation happens in front of the truck so it's difficult to see (as the dash cam is from behind the truck)
-there is shouting that is inaudible
-garage video appears to show Mr. Aubrey did not steal anything

It doesn't seem like the McMichaels son should have the legal right to point a shotgun at someone.

That creates a threat that he's going to kill you.

*****Imagine if some random person gets out their truck and points a shotgun at YOU*****


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18 May 2020, 2:40 pm

Mr. Aubrey's attorney says the dash cam video is much longer, and Mr. Aubrey was chased for at least four minutes.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/ahmaud-arber ... hot-lawyer


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funeralxempire
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18 May 2020, 3:06 pm

Brictoria wrote:

Based on this, I fail to see how it can be claimed that this shooting was a case of a couple of "rednecks" going out with the intention to shoot a black person as has been implied in several posts here.

Sources:
https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/sus ... djvXrE6sN/
https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/rec ... FWbKfApmJ/
https://www.sentinelsource.com/mcclatch ... b1dfa.html


Ever consider the possibility that not everyone takes the murderers story at face value? :|


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funeralxempire
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18 May 2020, 3:12 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
In the US, they would arrest you for kidnapping, IF you made it out of the house alive with the kid. You can'y just steal somebody's kid in my country.


That's nonsense, your government had an official policy of stealing indigenous children from their homes and sending them to boarding schools, just like his country and my country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_ ... ng_schools



They did do this. But, it's frowned upon in modern times.


That was my point, it's frowned upon in all three of them now (unless it's done officially by CPS) but then again back in the day they used variations on the same excuses we still use so if peoples who have been subjected to this within your lifetime are still anxious about it they're not entirely wrong to be.


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vermontsavant
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18 May 2020, 3:43 pm

Check out "Crime talk" with Scott Reisch on youtube,it has a lot of info on this case


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18 May 2020, 4:50 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
Check out "Crime talk" with Scott Reisch on youtube,it has a lot of info on this case

Thanks, I found it, and watched it.


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18 May 2020, 6:31 pm

Brictoria wrote:
On the day of the shooting, it appears that the McMichaels were made aware of someone running from the property and moved to stop them.


How the McHales were made aware is not what's relevant. The fact Aubrey was a identified as a "suspect" was based on his race.

Also the story that the gun "accidentally" discharged sounds like the lawyers fabricating a tale, the video shows Mchale discharging 3 times and the third time he shot Aubrey as he was running away wounded.



Brictoria
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18 May 2020, 8:19 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
On the day of the shooting, it appears that the McMichaels were made aware of someone running from the property and moved to stop them.


How the McHales were made aware is not what's relevant. The fact Aubrey was a identified as a "suspect" was based on his race.

Also the story that the gun "accidentally" discharged sounds like the lawyers fabricating a tale, the video shows Mchale discharging 3 times and the third time he shot Aubrey as he was running away wounded.


It's amazing how you automatically focus on the race of a person, ignoring the fact that the McMichaels lived a few doors away from the house under construction and would have likely SEEN Mr Arbery running from there.

As to the gun accidentally discharging...if you have a person holding a firearm and another tries to take it from them, then it is likely that the trigger may be accidentally pressed by either person.

I'd also question why any person would run towards a person exiting their vehicle and try to take a gun from them instead of stopping to wait on the Police? It wouldn't be race related, as if he was so worried about this, it would seem highly unlikely that he would have gone to a neighbourhood like this in the first place.

Sadly, some people seem unable to look past a person's race and consider other possibilities, preferring to assume the worst in people rather than actually consider that this would have likely had the same result had Mr Arbery been of the same race as the McMichaels.


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18 May 2020, 8:31 pm

Brictoria wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
On the day of the shooting, it appears that the McMichaels were made aware of someone running from the property and moved to stop them.


How the McHales were made aware is not what's relevant. The fact Aubrey was a identified as a "suspect" was based on his race.

Also the story that the gun "accidentally" discharged sounds like the lawyers fabricating a tale, the video shows Mchale discharging 3 times and the third time he shot Aubrey as he was running away wounded.


It's amazing how you automatically focus on the race of a person, ignoring the fact that the McMichaels lived a few doors away from the house under construction and would have likely SEEN Mr Arbery running from there.

As to the gun accidentally discharging...if you have a person holding a firearm and another tries to take it from them, then it is likely that the trigger may be accidentally pressed by either person.

I'd also question why any person would run towards a person exiting their vehicle and try to take a gun from them instead of stopping to wait on the Police? It wouldn't be race related, as if he was so worried about this, it would seem highly unlikely that he would have gone to a neighbourhood like this in the first place.

Sadly, some people seem unable to look past a person's race and consider other possibilities, preferring to assume the worst in people rather than actually consider that this would have likely had the same result had Mr Arbery been of the same race as the McMichaels.


It's amazing how quick you are to dismiss racial motives given the culture of the area it happened and the long history of racially motivated violence. Perhaps investing your creativity into making excuses for racially motivated slayings helps you feel better about the world, but it won't actually help with addressing the legacy of white supremacy and the violence it motivates. It's nice that you've never had to worry about being lynched or taken for a starlight tour, but there's people in the area where this happened who actually do have to worry about that reality and they're not unreasonable to understand this incident in the context of a long history of being targeted and murdered without justice ever being sought.


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Brictoria
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18 May 2020, 9:06 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
On the day of the shooting, it appears that the McMichaels were made aware of someone running from the property and moved to stop them.


How the McHales were made aware is not what's relevant. The fact Aubrey was a identified as a "suspect" was based on his race.

Also the story that the gun "accidentally" discharged sounds like the lawyers fabricating a tale, the video shows Mchale discharging 3 times and the third time he shot Aubrey as he was running away wounded.


It's amazing how you automatically focus on the race of a person, ignoring the fact that the McMichaels lived a few doors away from the house under construction and would have likely SEEN Mr Arbery running from there.

As to the gun accidentally discharging...if you have a person holding a firearm and another tries to take it from them, then it is likely that the trigger may be accidentally pressed by either person.

I'd also question why any person would run towards a person exiting their vehicle and try to take a gun from them instead of stopping to wait on the Police? It wouldn't be race related, as if he was so worried about this, it would seem highly unlikely that he would have gone to a neighbourhood like this in the first place.

Sadly, some people seem unable to look past a person's race and consider other possibilities, preferring to assume the worst in people rather than actually consider that this would have likely had the same result had Mr Arbery been of the same race as the McMichaels.


It's amazing how quick you are to dismiss racial motives given the culture of the area it happened and the long history of racially motivated violence. Perhaps investing your creativity into making excuses for racially motivated slayings helps you feel better about the world, but it won't actually help with addressing the legacy of white supremacy and the violence it motivates. It's nice that you've never had to worry about being lynched or taken for a starlight tour, but there's people in the area where this happened who actually do have to worry about that reality and they're not unreasonable to understand this incident in the context of a long history of being targeted and murdered without justice ever being sought.


So what you're saying, if I understand you correctly, is that there is such a problem with race issues in the area that Mr Arbery would be unlikely to have felt safe in the area he was in, yet chose to go there anyway instead of staying to "safe" areas?

Alternatively, not assuming the worst of people you do not know, it would appear that there were no issues related to race in the area, and this was purely a case of someone found trespassing on a site that had experienced a number of case sof trespassing in the recent past and where a number of thefts had occured in the surrounds, who then ran from the site, and instead of stopping tried to forcibly remove a firearm from another person and was shot as a result.

Personally, I can't imagine many people would voluntarily enter an area in which they would have been at such risk as you imply, so I highly doubt that your suggestion matches this case.


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18 May 2020, 9:08 pm

Brictoria wrote:
As to the gun accidentally discharging...if you have a person holding a firearm and another tries to take it from them, then it is likely that the trigger may be accidentally pressed by either person.

I'd also question why any person would run towards a person exiting their vehicle and try to take a gun from them instead of stopping to wait on the Police? It wouldn't be race related, as if he was so worried about this, it would seem highly unlikely that he would have gone to a neighbourhood like this in the first place.

Sadly, some people seem unable to look past a person's race and consider other possibilities, preferring to assume the worst in people rather than actually consider that this would have likely had the same result had Mr Arbery been of the same race as the McMichaels.


You are also making assumptions - re-read your post



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18 May 2020, 9:11 pm

Brictoria wrote:
Personally, I can't imagine many people would voluntarily enter an area in which they would have been at such risk as you imply, so I highly doubt that your suggestion matches this case.


Closer to home if a Sudanese youth was walking around Toorak how long do you think it would be before one the neighbors calls the police?

The very fact there are spaces that black people feel uncomfortable is the problem!