Police shooting in Wisconsin,protests erupt

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Brictoria
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31 Aug 2020, 3:47 am

TheRobotLives wrote:
Rosenbaum unarmed.
Rosenbaum never physically touches Rittenhouse.
Rosenbaum is shot and falls down.

Then Rittenhouse pumps three more shots into Rosenbaum, even shooting him in his back.

That seems like clear murder.

Any links I can read of someone explaining how that's not murder?


Person running away from Rosenbaum.
Rosenbaum chases him, making Rosenbaum the "agressor".
Rosenbaum throws object at person running from him.
Rosenbaum lunges at him, trying to grab rifle (from witness description included in charging documents, linked in earlier replies).
Rosenbaum was shot at that time.

At no point was the person who shot Rosenbaum acting in an agressive way towards him, and was in fact trying to get away from him. In this case, legally, Rosenbaum would be classed as the "agressor" and so "self defence" becomes a legitimate legal defence that can be invoked.


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TheRobotLives
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31 Aug 2020, 4:06 am

Brictoria wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
Rosenbaum unarmed.
Rosenbaum never physically touches Rittenhouse.
Rosenbaum is shot and falls down.

Then Rittenhouse pumps three more shots into Rosenbaum, even shooting him in his back.

That seems like clear murder.

Any links I can read of someone explaining how that's not murder?


Person running away from Rosenbaum.
Rosenbaum chases him, making Rosenbaum the "agressor".
Rosenbaum throws object at person running from him.
Rosenbaum lunges at him, trying to grab rifle (from witness description included in charging documents, linked in earlier replies).
Rosenbaum was shot at that time.

At no point was the person who shot Rosenbaum acting in an agressive way towards him, and was in fact trying to get away from him. In this case, legally, Rosenbaum would be classed as the "agressor" and so "self defence" becomes a legitimate legal defence that can be invoked.

1. Rosenbaum was the aggressor. Likely he was taunting people like he did earlier on video.
2. The bag fell way short of anyone, so that seems irrelevant.

It appears to be a gray area whether you can shoot someone who is trying to take your gun ...
https://www.quora.com/If-you-have-a-per ... shoot-them

However, the tough question is those extra shots he put into Rosenbaum.


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TheRobotLives
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31 Aug 2020, 4:29 am

cyberdad wrote:
My record so far is
Nick Sandmann - got it wrong
Amy Cooper - Got that one correct
McMichael Brothers - Got that one correct
Derek Chauvin - Got that one correct too

Here are WP topics I participated in with picks:

Cop vs Michael Brown (I took cop, winner)
Cop vs Terence Crutcher (I took cop , winner)
Cop vs Philando Castile (I took cop, winner)
Cop vs Samuel DuBose (I took cop, LOST)
Nick Sandmann - (I took Sandman, winner)
McMichael Brothers - (I took Ahmaud Arbery, ongoing)
Amy Cooper (I took Cooper, ongoing)
Derek Chauvin (I took George Floyd, ongoing)
Rittenhouse (I take GUILTY of murder)


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vermontsavant
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31 Aug 2020, 4:55 am

TheRobotLives wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
My record so far is
Nick Sandmann - got it wrong
Amy Cooper - Got that one correct
McMichael Brothers - Got that one correct
Derek Chauvin - Got that one correct too

Here are WP topics I participated in with picks:

Cop vs Michael Brown (I took cop, winner)
Cop vs Terence Crutcher (I took cop , winner)
Cop vs Philando Castile (I took cop, winner)
Cop vs Samuel DuBose (I took cop, LOST)
Nick Sandmann - (I took Sandman, winner)
McMichael Brothers - (I took Ahmaud Arbery, ongoing)
Amy Cooper (I took Cooper, ongoing)
Derek Chauvin (I took George Floyd, ongoing)
Rittenhouse (I take GUILTY of murder)


How could you participated in a Michael Brown discussion,that was the Darren Wilson shooting in Ferguson MO,that was 2014,you joined in 2019,Terence Crutcher was 2016 I think.How could you have been around for that?


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TheRobotLives
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31 Aug 2020, 4:56 am

vermontsavant wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
My record so far is
Nick Sandmann - got it wrong
Amy Cooper - Got that one correct
McMichael Brothers - Got that one correct
Derek Chauvin - Got that one correct too

Here are WP topics I participated in with picks:

Cop vs Michael Brown (I took cop, winner)
Cop vs Terence Crutcher (I took cop , winner)
Cop vs Philando Castile (I took cop, winner)
Cop vs Samuel DuBose (I took cop, LOST)
Nick Sandmann - (I took Sandman, winner)
McMichael Brothers - (I took Ahmaud Arbery, ongoing)
Amy Cooper (I took Cooper, ongoing)
Derek Chauvin (I took George Floyd, ongoing)
Rittenhouse (I take GUILTY of murder)


How could you participated in a Michael Brown discussion,that was the Darren Wilson shooting in Ferguson MO,that was 2014,you joined in 2019,Terence Crutcher was 2016 I think.How could you have been around for that?

Good catch.

However, this is not my first account.

I had too much person information on my last account, and frequently got nasty PMs.

There are many members here who snoop through your old information, and try and use it to smear you.


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Be the hero of your life.


Brictoria
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31 Aug 2020, 5:10 am

TheRobotLives wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
My record so far is
Nick Sandmann - got it wrong
Amy Cooper - Got that one correct
McMichael Brothers - Got that one correct
Derek Chauvin - Got that one correct too

Here are WP topics I participated in with picks:

Cop vs Michael Brown (I took cop, winner)
Cop vs Terence Crutcher (I took cop , winner)
Cop vs Philando Castile (I took cop, winner)
Cop vs Samuel DuBose (I took cop, LOST)
Nick Sandmann - (I took Sandman, winner)
McMichael Brothers - (I took Ahmaud Arbery, ongoing)
Amy Cooper (I took Cooper, ongoing)
Derek Chauvin (I took George Floyd, ongoing)
Rittenhouse (I take GUILTY of murder)


How could you participated in a Michael Brown discussion,that was the Darren Wilson shooting in Ferguson MO,that was 2014,you joined in 2019,Terence Crutcher was 2016 I think.How could you have been around for that?

Good catch.

However, this is not my first account.

I had too much person information on my last account, and frequently got nasty PMs.

There are many members here who snoop through your old information, and try and use it to smear you.


Makes it a bit hard to confirm your earlier ones, but at least you're not trying to claim being right for things which are yet to be decided, which is to your credit :)


_________________
Quote:
"When people express opinions that differ from yours, take it as a chance to grow. Seek to understand over being understood. Be curious, not defensive. The only way to disarm another human being is by listening." - Glennon Doyle Melton

Quote:
"Never forget that you have every right to question any individual, system, movement, or group that only tolerates you when you think and behave exactly like them" - Africa Brooke

Quote:
“There was a saying that a man's true character was revealed in defeat. I thought it was also revealed in victory.”
― Alison Goodman, Eon: Dragoneye Reborn


vermontsavant
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31 Aug 2020, 5:18 am

TheRobotLives wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
My record so far is
Nick Sandmann - got it wrong
Amy Cooper - Got that one correct
McMichael Brothers - Got that one correct
Derek Chauvin - Got that one correct too

Here are WP topics I participated in with picks:

Cop vs Michael Brown (I took cop, winner)
Cop vs Terence Crutcher (I took cop , winner)
Cop vs Philando Castile (I took cop, winner)
Cop vs Samuel DuBose (I took cop, LOST)
Nick Sandmann - (I took Sandman, winner)
McMichael Brothers - (I took Ahmaud Arbery, ongoing)
Amy Cooper (I took Cooper, ongoing)
Derek Chauvin (I took George Floyd, ongoing)
Rittenhouse (I take GUILTY of murder)


How could you participated in a Michael Brown discussion,that was the Darren Wilson shooting in Ferguson MO,that was 2014,you joined in 2019,Terence Crutcher was 2016 I think.How could you have been around for that?

Good catch.

However, this is not my first account.

I had too much person information on my last account, and frequently got nasty PMs.

There are many members here who snoop through your old information, and try and use it to smear you.
Sorry you got nasty PM's,I guess I shouldn't complain I never get PM's.


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Brictoria
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31 Aug 2020, 6:58 pm

Another review of Kyle's charges:


_________________
Quote:
"When people express opinions that differ from yours, take it as a chance to grow. Seek to understand over being understood. Be curious, not defensive. The only way to disarm another human being is by listening." - Glennon Doyle Melton

Quote:
"Never forget that you have every right to question any individual, system, movement, or group that only tolerates you when you think and behave exactly like them" - Africa Brooke

Quote:
“There was a saying that a man's true character was revealed in defeat. I thought it was also revealed in victory.”
― Alison Goodman, Eon: Dragoneye Reborn


TheRobotLives
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31 Aug 2020, 9:11 pm

Brictoria wrote:
Another review of Kyle's charges:
[youtube]/www.youtube.com/[/youtube]

These lawyers never address the most obvious argument of murder -- that Rittenhouse shot Rosenbaum in his back.

Also, Barnes appears incorrect to say Rosenbaum touched Rittenhouse's gun.


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Brictoria
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31 Aug 2020, 9:32 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Another review of Kyle's charges:
[youtube]/www.youtube.com/[/youtube]

These lawyers never address the most obvious argument of murder -- that Rittenhouse shot Rosenbaum in his back.

An unarmed man has his back to you, and you need to shoot for self-defense. Doesn't make sense.

Also, Barnes appears incorrect to say Rosenbaum touched Rittenhouse's gun.


Based on the charging documents (again, provided in an earlier post) Rosenbaum was lunging for Kyle and his gun when shot. There is no indication of him being intentionally shot in the back (running away from Kyle, for example), and a witness indicated he definitely made a motion as though trying to grab the barrel of the gun, and the shot that hit his back would likely be due to his movement when the shots were fired. The 3 or 4 shots fired were close together, and it is likely that Rosenbaum was turning during this time, causing one of the shots to hit him in the back...Alternatively (I'm not sure of the angle), it may have hit him while diving towards Kyle, when he was below the height of the end of the barrel.

Again, it's not a case that Rosenbaum had deliberately turned his back and was walking away, as you appear to be assuming, which can be confirmed in the videos of the incident and the charging documents with included witness's observations.

To assist you, have a look at the charging documents:
https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/journaltimes.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/4/6f/46ff33b7-0bd7-55e6-8f2f-9ded0582862f/5f4933274cde9.pdf.pdf
The "Probable cause" section, starting at bottom of page 2, contains all the details the prosecution has been able to gather to support the charges.


_________________
Quote:
"When people express opinions that differ from yours, take it as a chance to grow. Seek to understand over being understood. Be curious, not defensive. The only way to disarm another human being is by listening." - Glennon Doyle Melton

Quote:
"Never forget that you have every right to question any individual, system, movement, or group that only tolerates you when you think and behave exactly like them" - Africa Brooke

Quote:
“There was a saying that a man's true character was revealed in defeat. I thought it was also revealed in victory.”
― Alison Goodman, Eon: Dragoneye Reborn


Brictoria
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31 Aug 2020, 10:17 pm

Another interesting look at the videos and what was happening:


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Quote:
"When people express opinions that differ from yours, take it as a chance to grow. Seek to understand over being understood. Be curious, not defensive. The only way to disarm another human being is by listening." - Glennon Doyle Melton

Quote:
"Never forget that you have every right to question any individual, system, movement, or group that only tolerates you when you think and behave exactly like them" - Africa Brooke

Quote:
“There was a saying that a man's true character was revealed in defeat. I thought it was also revealed in victory.”
― Alison Goodman, Eon: Dragoneye Reborn


redrobin62
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01 Sep 2020, 7:25 pm

If Rittenhouse goes to prison for murder, and Trump is still in office, chances are he'll pardon the young man. Of course, the president can only pardon someone if their act was a federal offense and murders are usually state offenses. I'll bet Rittenhouse's attorneys might finagle a way to make his crimes come across as offenses against the US if Trump is still in power because they know the president will pardon the young man if he gets convicted.



cyberdad
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02 Sep 2020, 12:27 am

Trump and supporters are backing the teen despite the charges.

Rittenhouse has been allowed by police to send messages to the media thanking his supporters and bragging he is confident he will be released soon
https://www.news.com.au/world/north-ame ... e964391875

I'm not aware other murderers are given this much publicity by a standing president?? or allowed access to the media? quite bizarre times we live in.



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02 Sep 2020, 8:46 am

redrobin62 wrote:
If Rittenhouse goes to prison for murder, and Trump is still in office, chances are he'll pardon the young man. Of course, the president can only pardon someone if their act was a federal offense and murders are usually state offenses. I'll bet Rittenhouse's attorneys might finagle a way to make his crimes come across as offenses against the US if Trump is still in power because they know the president will pardon the young man if he gets convicted.

Illegally transporting a weapon across state lines (18 U.S. Code § 922) might provide the basis for Federal prosecution of Kyle Rittenhouse…

But as he is under 18, the possible penalty here is much, much lower than the potential sentence for murder at the State level (which is not subject to presidential pardon).



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02 Sep 2020, 8:49 am

Gun never crossed state lines. It belongs to a friend of Rittenhouse who's a local.


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Brictoria
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02 Sep 2020, 9:00 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
Gun never crossed state lines. It belongs to a friend of Rittenhouse who's a local.

It's amazing how many people ignore inconvenient facts like that, isn't it.


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Quote:
"When people express opinions that differ from yours, take it as a chance to grow. Seek to understand over being understood. Be curious, not defensive. The only way to disarm another human being is by listening." - Glennon Doyle Melton

Quote:
"Never forget that you have every right to question any individual, system, movement, or group that only tolerates you when you think and behave exactly like them" - Africa Brooke

Quote:
“There was a saying that a man's true character was revealed in defeat. I thought it was also revealed in victory.”
― Alison Goodman, Eon: Dragoneye Reborn