Salt Lake City police shoot 13 year old autistic

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emotrtkey
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08 Sep 2020, 11:33 am

magz wrote:
emotrtkey wrote:
magz wrote:
emotrtkey wrote:
I think the mother needs to be investigated. Children who are raised properly and consistently disciplined usually don't have mental breakdowns. It's her responsibility to discipline her child and teach him how to control his emotions. I think parents who refuse to teach and discipline their children should be charged with child abuse and have their children placed in foster care.
How much time a day do you spend with children? Any children.
Most of my problems were caused by bad parenting. Whenever I hear about parents raising autistic children, I consistently see the same bad parenting being used (no discipline, catering to their sensitivities, neglecting their feelings, telling them emotions just happen, etc.).
I take it as an implicit answer to my question: 0.

The older half of WP will tell you about their parents trying to beat autistic traits out of them so they "behaved". It's a tragic misconception that parenting is all about either "discipline" or total lack of it, no middle ground, no other dimensions.

Mental breakdowns are not an issue of discipline. They are an issue of mental health.


People's emotions, in most cases, are caused by their own thoughts. People have mental breakdowns because there is something wrong with the way they think (That's why therapy works by helping people change the way they think. Therapy wouldn't work if that wasn't true.) Discipline helps children regulate their emotions by thinking differently. For example, if a child is disciplined because he got angry and broke something and his parents consistently discipline bad behavior, it will motivate him to find a way to control his anger on his own. He'll realize that his thoughts made him angry and start thinking differently on his own to avoid the pain associated with discipline. Learning how to control his emotions on his own will help him feel better about himself and improve his self-esteem. Consistent discipline also builds resilience. They experience pain, realize it's not the end of the world, so they have less anxiety worrying about bad stuff happening to them. When parents let their children do whatever they want, always praise them, and never rebuke them, their children grow up emotionally fragile, never correcting distorted thoughts that contributed to their meltdowns, never understanding their own emotions and what causes them, and often have a low self-esteem since they were never challenged and never learned how to cope with normal aspects of life. They end up thinking everyone else is responsible for their emotions and have mental breakdowns because they can't control other people's actions. Obviously, discipline is only part of loving your children. If a child is struggling, parents should pay attention and listen to what's bothering their child and try to understand and help him. Although there are parents who just beat their kids out of anger and don't really care about them which causes more problems, some children misinterpret discipline as their parents not accepting them. It's not the discipline, but their misinterpretation of it, and their parent's neglecting to correct their misunderstanding that causes problems.



adoylelb90815
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08 Sep 2020, 11:54 am

I was about to post an article from my local news about this case, and I'm in California.



magz
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08 Sep 2020, 12:00 pm

emotrtkey wrote:
People's emotions, in most cases, are caused by their own thoughts. People have mental breakdowns because there is something wrong with the way they think (That's why therapy works by helping people change the way they think. Therapy wouldn't work if that wasn't true.) Discipline helps children regulate their emotions by thinking differently. For example, if a child is disciplined because he got angry and broke something and his parents consistently discipline bad behavior, it will motivate him to find a way to control his anger on his own. He'll realize that his thoughts made him angry and start thinking differently on his own to avoid the pain associated with discipline. Learning how to control his emotions on his own will help him feel better about himself and improve his self-esteem. Consistent discipline also builds resilience. They experience pain, realize it's not the end of the world, so they have less anxiety worrying about bad stuff happening to them. When parents let their children do whatever they want, always praise them, and never rebuke them, their children grow up emotionally fragile, never correcting distorted thoughts that contributed to their meltdowns, never understanding their own emotions and what causes them, and often have a low self-esteem since they were never challenged and never learned how to cope with normal aspects of life. They end up thinking everyone else is responsible for their emotions and have mental breakdowns because they can't control other people's actions.

Nice theory.
Unfortunately, my life experience completely negates it.
I was very consistently punished for my meltdowns and I indeed developed rarely seen amount of self-discipline to control them. The cost: 30 years of arrest in emotional development, mental illness. At 32, I had to conciously make the baby steps of emotional development nomal for toddlers. Why didn't I kill myself before it? Only because I knew I would harm others by doing it. Only.


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08 Sep 2020, 12:01 pm

emotrtkey wrote:
He's white so this will be ignored by the national mainstream media because it doesn't fit their agenda of promoting racism by dividing Americans and convincing people that cops are racist. Local news only.


Sad news here:

People with mental illnesses and disabilities are more likely to be shot by the cops as well.


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Feyokien
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08 Sep 2020, 12:34 pm

emotrtkey wrote:
He's white so this will be ignored by the national mainstream media because it doesn't fit their agenda of promoting racism by dividing Americans and convincing people that cops are racist. Local news only.


That's a fallacious claim. The broad narrative is police brutality.

It made it into several 'mainstream' news sources already. Expect it to end up in most of them.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/09/08/linden-cameron-utah-autistic-shooting/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/police-shoot-13-year-old-boy-autism-salt-lake-city-mother-called-for-help/

https://people.com/crime/utah-police-shot-a-13-year-old-boy-with-autism-after-his-mother-called-911-for-help/



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08 Sep 2020, 1:01 pm

emotrtkey wrote:
magz wrote:
emotrtkey wrote:
magz wrote:
emotrtkey wrote:
I think the mother needs to be investigated. Children who are raised properly and consistently disciplined usually don't have mental breakdowns. It's her responsibility to discipline her child and teach him how to control his emotions. I think parents who refuse to teach and discipline their children should be charged with child abuse and have their children placed in foster care.
How much time a day do you spend with children? Any children.
Most of my problems were caused by bad parenting. Whenever I hear about parents raising autistic children, I consistently see the same bad parenting being used (no discipline, catering to their sensitivities, neglecting their feelings, telling them emotions just happen, etc.).
I take it as an implicit answer to my question: 0.

The older half of WP will tell you about their parents trying to beat autistic traits out of them so they "behaved". It's a tragic misconception that parenting is all about either "discipline" or total lack of it, no middle ground, no other dimensions.

Mental breakdowns are not an issue of discipline. They are an issue of mental health.


People's emotions, in most cases, are caused by their own thoughts. People have mental breakdowns because there is something wrong with the way they think (That's why therapy works by helping people change the way they think. Therapy wouldn't work if that wasn't true.) Discipline helps children regulate their emotions by thinking differently. For example, if a child is disciplined because he got angry and broke something and his parents consistently discipline bad behavior, it will motivate him to find a way to control his anger on his own. He'll realize that his thoughts made him angry and start thinking differently on his own to avoid the pain associated with discipline. Learning how to control his emotions on his own will help him feel better about himself and improve his self-esteem. Consistent discipline also builds resilience. They experience pain, realize it's not the end of the world, so they have less anxiety worrying about bad stuff happening to them. When parents let their children do whatever they want, always praise them, and never rebuke them, their children grow up emotionally fragile, never correcting distorted thoughts that contributed to their meltdowns, never understanding their own emotions and what causes them, and often have a low self-esteem since they were never challenged and never learned how to cope with normal aspects of life. They end up thinking everyone else is responsible for their emotions and have mental breakdowns because they can't control other people's actions. Obviously, discipline is only part of loving your children. If a child is struggling, parents should pay attention and listen to what's bothering their child and try to understand and help him. Although there are parents who just beat their kids out of anger and don't really care about them which causes more problems, some children misinterpret discipline as their parents not accepting them. It's not the discipline, but their misinterpretation of it, and their parent's neglecting to correct their misunderstanding that causes problems.


My mom had to work hard to see things my way and see from my perspective.

As a child, it is the grown up's fault if the kid isn't learning and if discipline is not effective. It is their duty to see things from the kid's point of view. But when you become an adult, all of a sudden it isn't their job anymore, eg. like your boss isn't going to see things from your perspective, instead it will be your duty to try and see it from theirs and grown ups who cannot do this are doomed for life and this is why we see them on disability benefits or why they continue being homeless. I have known people who were homeless off and on and I often wonder if they have any mental issues because they can't keep a job or can't keep a roof over their head. I can also tell they work very hard but their hardest they work isn't keeping them a stable life and job.

I think parents can do so much and they do the best they can. But with limited income, that can be very difficult, plus if the parent has to work all the time to live a comfortable life so their kids have a stable life. The parent won't have time for the special needs child and to figure out their issues or they end up on welfare and disability benefits for the child so they can stay home and work with them. Sometimes they can't keep a job either if their child is having meltdowns in school and they always have to leave work to get them or if they always have to take time off to take them to their appointments. Plus if you have to rely on the state, you still may not get enough therapy for your kid because you cannot afford private therapy.

My mom was lucky enough to be privileged that we could live on one income from my dad but she still worked making minimum wage to get good health insurance and so she could pay for my private therapy with a mental health therapist. Not only I was seeing her, my mom saw her too so she could figure out how to raise me. She also had money to pay for pottery and gymnastics for me to help me. My husband's parents were poor and they also worked hard and she couldn't afford any therapy for my husband and any classes for him he could take to help him and she had to rely on the school to help her child.

So I would be careful about judging parents of special needs kids. My mom thinks it has to do with pride where the parent is too proud to admit they can't do it on their own and ask for help but I disagree. I think there are parents that don't know how to ask for help because they don't know where to get it, especially with limited income or because they have to work to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table to feed their kids so they don't have time for their child so they rely on the school.

I say kids that were able to get help to be successful adults (Temple Grandin for example) came from privilege.


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redrobin62
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08 Sep 2020, 3:07 pm

The Salt Lake Tribune made a mention of his mental episode which, in all actuality, given that he's autistic, was a meltdown - very common with us. Meltdowns, which can be triggered by sensory overload or other various factors, are difficult to deal with even for professionals working in the autistic field. That said, I'd would be VERY SURPRISED if cops are given classes on de-escalating autistic tantrums. I'm not a cop hater; on the contrary, I support the police department, but they're not trained psychologists. They're law enforcement officers with guns and, unfortunately, end up employing them in situations that could probably have been better managed if a trained crisis team with a psychologist was on hand.



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08 Sep 2020, 3:39 pm

magz wrote:
emotrtkey wrote:
People's emotions, in most cases, are caused by their own thoughts. People have mental breakdowns because there is something wrong with the way they think (That's why therapy works by helping people change the way they think. Therapy wouldn't work if that wasn't true.) Discipline helps children regulate their emotions by thinking differently. For example, if a child is disciplined because he got angry and broke something and his parents consistently discipline bad behavior, it will motivate him to find a way to control his anger on his own. He'll realize that his thoughts made him angry and start thinking differently on his own to avoid the pain associated with discipline. Learning how to control his emotions on his own will help him feel better about himself and improve his self-esteem. Consistent discipline also builds resilience. They experience pain, realize it's not the end of the world, so they have less anxiety worrying about bad stuff happening to them. When parents let their children do whatever they want, always praise them, and never rebuke them, their children grow up emotionally fragile, never correcting distorted thoughts that contributed to their meltdowns, never understanding their own emotions and what causes them, and often have a low self-esteem since they were never challenged and never learned how to cope with normal aspects of life. They end up thinking everyone else is responsible for their emotions and have mental breakdowns because they can't control other people's actions.

Nice theory.
Unfortunately, my life experience completely negates it.
I was very consistently punished for my meltdowns and I indeed developed rarely seen amount of self-discipline to control them. The cost: 30 years of arrest in emotional development, mental illness. At 32, I had to conciously make the baby steps of emotional development nomal for toddlers. Why didn't I kill myself before it? Only because I knew I would harm others by doing it. Only.


It's not my theory. It's based on science. Sometimes people misinterpret things. How you think about what happens to you makes a big difference in how you feel. My life confirms that. Someone who believes his parents love and accept him, whose parents respond to his emotional needs, and believe they are doing their best to help him be the best person he can be will feel and react differently than someone whose parents aren't like that.



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08 Sep 2020, 3:54 pm

[Merged identical topics]



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08 Sep 2020, 8:15 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... utism-utah

They were told in advance that he was unarmed and not dangerous. Just another example of reflexively violent US policing.

My autistic son will be 13 next week. I'm so glad I'm not there.


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08 Sep 2020, 8:37 pm

emotrtkey wrote:
I think the mother needs to be investigated. Children who are raised properly and consistently disciplined usually don't have mental breakdowns. It's her responsibility to discipline her child and teach him how to control his emotions. I think parents who refuse to teach and discipline their children should be charged with child abuse and have their children placed in foster care.

Please stay far away from my children.


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08 Sep 2020, 8:39 pm

emotrtkey wrote:
He's white so this will be ignored by the national mainstream media because it doesn't fit their agenda of promoting racism by dividing Americans and convincing people that cops are racist. Local news only.

Then why is it being covered by major news outlets around the country and the world? Your post says more about you than about the topic.


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magz
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09 Sep 2020, 2:03 am

emotrtkey wrote:
It's not my theory. It's based on science. Sometimes people misinterpret things. How you think about what happens to you makes a big difference in how you feel. My life confirms that. Someone who believes his parents love and accept him, whose parents respond to his emotional needs, and believe they are doing their best to help him be the best person he can be will feel and react differently than someone whose parents aren't like that.

Being a scientist myself: Science is based on systematic observation of reality, nothing less, nothing more.
If I provide a viable counter-example to your theory, it means - at the very least - that your theory works only within specific circumstances.
Which seems to be the case here, as CBT is helpful for some and damaging for others.


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09 Sep 2020, 2:25 am

magz wrote:
Being a scientist myself: Science is based on systematic observation of reality, nothing less, nothing more..


Well observation is step 1.

A scientist still has to interpret their observation to a hypothesis.

evaluate their prediction using systematic and replicable observations based on their first prediction

Remove covarying reasons and time-order factors and eliminate all possible alternative causes

Only then have you acted scientifically



magz
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09 Sep 2020, 2:54 am

cyberdad wrote:
magz wrote:
Being a scientist myself: Science is based on systematic observation of reality, nothing less, nothing more..


Well observation is step 1.

A scientist still has to interpret their observation to a hypothesis.

evaluate their prediction using systematic and replicable observations based on their first prediction

Remove covarying reasons and time-order factors and eliminate all possible alternative causes

Only then have you acted scientifically

That's what I mean by "systematic" ;)

The ultimate verification of all scientific claims is reality.


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