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magz
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28 Sep 2020, 5:12 am

cyberdad wrote:
magz wrote:
I think building dams and desalination plants should be evaluated over longer periods than one summer.
Diversity of water sources is good, it improves flexibility and gives more options should something unpredicted happen.


The desalination plant was built in coastal Victoria which current global warming models suggest will receive more rainfall than normal and if it doesn't will be underwater as its built on the coast (oh the irony).

It "will be underwater" in some 5000 years, that's extra-fast in geological terms but not in terms of desal plant life :D

I gather in Victoria, they made a trendy decision instead of a rational one.
In Sydney, as it hosts large population, diversity in water sources may be very beneficial.
I'm not an expert to evaluate long-term cost of a dam vs a desal plant.


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Brictoria
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28 Sep 2020, 5:30 am

magz wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
magz wrote:
I think building dams and desalination plants should be evaluated over longer periods than one summer.
Diversity of water sources is good, it improves flexibility and gives more options should something unpredicted happen.


The desalination plant was built in coastal Victoria which current global warming models suggest will receive more rainfall than normal and if it doesn't will be underwater as its built on the coast (oh the irony).

It "will be underwater" in some 5000 years, that's extra-fast in geological terms but not in terms of desal plant life :D

I gather in Victoria, they made a trendy decision instead of a rational one.
In Sydney, as it hosts large population, diversity in water sources may be very beneficial.
I'm not an expert to evaluate long-term cost of a dam vs a desal plant.


Well, the decision to go with the chosen method of ensuring our water supplies was made by the same party that paid $1 Billion to NOT build a needed road, so it's hardly surprising they picked the least efficient, most expensive option.

As I recall, it has only been used once, and wasn't required even at that time (Although the contract signed means it is costing considerable amounts of money even when not in use), but it's not their money...Plus it meant they could try to claim it wasn't a waste of money purely on the basis of this single, unneccesary use.

Oh yes, another "genius" decision by this same party was the "private security" for guarding those in quarantine in the hotels, so far "responsible for the deaths of 768 people, and the infection of some 18,490"... (source:https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/news/hotel-quarantine-inquiry-finds-daniel-andrews-government-responsible-for-deaths-of-768-people/news-story/ff0ea881aa3c70e7f003cc2c448b629b)



Pepe
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28 Sep 2020, 5:35 am

Brictoria wrote:
Oh yes, another "genius" decision by this same party was the "private security" for guarding those in quarantine in the hotels, so far "responsible for the deaths of 768 people, and the infection of some 18,490"... (source:https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/news/hotel-quarantine-inquiry-finds-daniel-andrews-government-responsible-for-deaths-of-768-people/news-story/ff0ea881aa3c70e7f003cc2c448b629b)


Make your own thread, biatch. :mrgreen:



cyberdad
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28 Sep 2020, 5:57 am

Brictoria wrote:

Oh yes, another "genius" decision by this same party was the "private security" for guarding those in quarantine in the hotels, so far "responsible for the deaths of 768 people, and the infection of some 18,490"... (source:https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/news/hotel-quarantine-inquiry-finds-daniel-andrews-government-responsible-for-deaths-of-768-people/news-story/ff0ea881aa3c70e7f003cc2c448b629b)


Well looks like we both agree on Dan Andrews and his henchmen causing the current mess. Will expect he fall on his sword sooner rather than dragging things until investigators complete their review.



cyberdad
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28 Sep 2020, 6:12 am

Pepe wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Oh yes, another "genius" decision by this same party was the "private security" for guarding those in quarantine in the hotels, so far "responsible for the deaths of 768 people, and the infection of some 18,490"... (source:https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/news/hotel-quarantine-inquiry-finds-daniel-andrews-government-responsible-for-deaths-of-768-people/news-story/ff0ea881aa3c70e7f003cc2c448b629b)


Make your own thread, biatch. :mrgreen:


Anyway back to our main story



cyberdad
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28 Sep 2020, 6:14 am

magz wrote:
I gather in Victoria, they made a trendy decision instead of a rational one.


You have heard of our cafe latte set?



Pepe
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28 Sep 2020, 6:22 am

cyberdad wrote:
magz wrote:
I gather in Victoria, they made a trendy decision instead of a rational one.


You have heard of our cafe latte set?


All I can say is

Bloody politics.
Make practical decisions, not decisions based on ideology.
Not rocket surgery, FFS. :roll:

I bloody well hope we get rid of state government/politics, after this coronavirus/borders absurdity.

Back to the wet stuff.
Ummm.
Water good.
Will get plenty soon.
In your face, Flannery. 8)



cyberdad
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28 Sep 2020, 6:24 am

Out trendy urban hispters are now using their own mugs instead of the plastic cups for their lattes which end up in the Bass strait.



cyberdad
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28 Sep 2020, 6:25 am

Pepe wrote:
Back to the wet stuff.
Ummm.
Water good.
Will get plenty soon.
In your face, Flannery. 8)


You trust BOM?



Pepe
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28 Sep 2020, 6:28 am

cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Back to the wet stuff.
Ummm.
Water good.
Will get plenty soon.
In your face, Flannery. 8)


You trust BOM?


Nope, they fudge the figures to suit themselves.
I trust La Nina, pretty little thing that she is. 8)



MrsPeel
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28 Sep 2020, 6:55 am

Hey will you boys stop picking on my favourite palaeontologist :evil:
You know full well that La Nina years are rare...
plus when all the rain comes in one wet season they have to let the dams overflow anyway.
So it's not like one wet year is going to solve all our water issues, is it?
I think you're just jealous of Tim's sex appeal :D



Pepe
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28 Sep 2020, 7:12 am

MrsPeel wrote:
Hey will you boys stop picking on my favourite palaeontologist :evil:
You know full well that La Nina years are rare...
plus when all the rain comes in one wet season they have to let the dams overflow anyway.
So it's not like one wet year is going to solve all our water issues, is it?
I think you're just jealous of Tim's sex appeal :D


If we had more dams we could capture more water.
Is that right? :scratch: :mrgreen:
We wouldn't need the Bradfield Scheme if we had enough damn dams to last between the droughts. :evil:

Quote:
The Bradfield Scheme, a proposed Australian water diversion scheme, is an inland irrigation project that was designed to irrigate and drought-proof much of the western Queensland interior, as well as large areas of South Australia. It was devised by Dr John Bradfield (1867–1943), a Queensland born civil engineer, who also designed the Sydney Harbour Bridge and Brisbane's Story Bridge.[1]

The scheme that Bradfield proposed in 1938 required large pipes, tunnels, pumps and dams. It involved diverting water from the upper reaches of the Tully, Herbert and Burdekin rivers.[2] These Queensland rivers are fed by the monsoon, and flow east to the Coral Sea. It was proposed that the water would enter the Thomson River on the western side of the Great Dividing Range and eventually flow south west to Lake Eyre.[3] An alternative plan was to divert water into the Flinders River. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradfield_Scheme


How dumb is dumb?
Millions more people without increasing the proportional water storage supply. 8O

Tim Flannery: "Even the rain that falls isn't actually going to fill our dams and our river systems."



Pepe
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28 Sep 2020, 7:17 am

Quote:
Tim Flannery must apologise for his climate change fear mongering: Alan Jones


Jump to 1:15minutes. 8)



MrsPeel
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28 Sep 2020, 7:29 am

I'd like to see the full transcript of what Flannery was saying, it looks like he's been quoted out of context.
He knows a lot more about climate science than Alan Jones, that's for sure.

And, hey, I never said anything about not building dams.
(Personally I think they'd be a better way to go than desalination plants, if you have to have one or the other).



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28 Sep 2020, 7:42 am

Found this interview from 2019 on the ABC, which puts Flannery's comments into better context:

Tim Flannery, how likely are Australian capital cities to end up living permanently under some form of water restrictions?

TIM FLANNERY, CHIEF COUNCILLOR, CLIMATE COUNCIL: Well, look, it depends upon how water is managed.

At the moment what we're seeing is a widespread use of desalination to provide water but that's expensive.

So, you know, Perth gets about half of its water from desal. Adelaide gets up half of its water at various times from desal. Melbourne gets water and we're just about to turn the taps on in the desal plant in Sydney. That will add about $25 to $30 a year cost to water for the average consumer but I guess that's the cost of using it prolifically.

LEIGH SALES: As you mention, Perth and Adelaide are getting about half of their water from desalination plants. Other than the expense, have there have been any lessons learned from that?

TIM FLANNERY: Look, yeah, it is obviously expensive. There can be environmental consequences.

So Perth has had to turn off its desal plant occasionally as very salty water has pooled on the coast, causing environmental problems.

So yeah, there are consequences. I think you're much better off managing your water properly, looking after your climate so you don't have to bear these costs.

LEIGH SALES: How much progress has Australia made into other water efficiency measures?

TIM FLANNERY: Look, by and large, I think we're still fairly poor at managing our water.

The big impacts are going to be in the inland, in our agriculture regions because out there, you can't really utilise desal the way we can on the coast and also, hotter temperatures are making things much more difficult.

So, you know, last summer was the hottest summer on record for Australia, and we also had the third most severe drought, which we're still experiencing. So add those two together and you get a lot of demand, you get a lot of stress on water.

LEIGH SALES: You mentioned high temperatures. Given the pressures of climate change, how likely is it that Australia's dams will ever return to full capacity?

TIM FLANNERY: Well, you know, we have to see. There may be an odd weather event that brings them up to 100 per cent again but by and large, the trend has been for greater evaporation, so less water actually getting into the dams, and less rainfall in southern and eastern Australia.

So those factors together tell us we should manage carefully what we've got.

LEIGH SALES: What are some of the low hanging fruit in terms of better water management in Australia? What could we do fairly easily?

TIM FLANNERY: Well, Brisbane really has led the way in times past in this and what they've done is issued people with their water bills, and in a way that gives them a comparison with their neighbours.

And in that sense, you see how much you're using relative to people around you and I think that spurs on action.

The other thing that Brisbane has done is build a fantastic water recycling plant, again, a common-sense thing to do but last time I looked, that hadn't been utilised because people weren't comfortable with drinking recycled water - slightly crazy given if you visit London, that's what you're drinking.



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28 Sep 2020, 7:52 am

MrsPeel wrote:
I'd like to see the full transcript of what Flannery was saying, it looks like he's been quoted out of context.


Try https://www.abc.net.au/local/archives/landline/content/2006/s1844398.htm, which was the original souce of the quote, I believe.

Quote:
Interview with Professor Tim Flannery

Reporter: Sally Sara

First Published: 11/02/2007

SALLY SARA: Well, making good use of water is one of the subjects of this week's interview. Professor Tim Flannery has warned climate change will impact on Australia to the point where Sydney can expect to receive 60 per cent less rainfall than it does at present. If that's the case, what about the bush? What can Australian farmers expect as weather patterns alter? I spoke with Professor Tim Flannery about climate change, water and the intriguing subject of carbon trading. Professor Flannery, congratulations firstly on being named as Australian of the Year.

PROFESSOR TIM FLANNERY: Thank you very much.

SALLY SARA: What will it mean for Australian farmers if the predictions of climate change are correct and little is done to stop it? What will that mean for a farmer?

PROFESSOR TIM FLANNERY: We're already seeing the initial impacts and they include a decline in the winter rainfall zone across southern Australia, which is clearly an impact of climate change, but also a decrease in run-off. Although we're getting say a 20 per cent decrease in rainfall in some areas of Australia, that's translating to a 60 per cent decrease in the run-off into the dams and rivers. That's because the soil is warmer because of global warming and the plants are under more stress and therefore using more moisture. So even the rain that falls isn't actually going to fill our dams and our river systems, and that's a real worry for the people in the bush. If that trend continues then I think we're going to have serious problems, particularly for irrigation.