South FL Landlord Requires New Tenants to be Vaccinated

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demeus
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16 Sep 2021, 11:19 am

Actually, the no pets rule can possibly overridden in the case of service dogs for persons with actual disabilities. That is why there is a question on whether a landlord can restrict units to those who are vaccinated. What about those who have a legitimate medical reason to not get the vaccine? Should they be denied a place to rent because of an allergy (which can be considered a disability)? Granted, that is very few of members of the population (and another reason to get vaccinated, to protect those people).



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16 Sep 2021, 11:30 am

demeus wrote:
... What about those who have a legitimate medical reason to not get the vaccine? Should they be denied a place to rent because of an allergy (which can be considered a disability)? ...
Anyone who goes to THAT apartment complex knowing full well that they will be rejected for being unvaxxed can still go across the street, around the corner, or down the block and apply at another apartment complex instead.

Would you buy a vicious dog knowing that it could tear your arm off when there are dozens of other dogs nearby willing to lay on your lap and be petted?  Would you apply to rent an apartment knowing that your application would be rejected when there are dozens of other landlords willing to take you in?

Come on, people!  It is not as if the only oasis in the desert was posted as "Whites Only"!



Brictoria
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16 Sep 2021, 11:40 am

demeus wrote:
Actually, the no pets rule can possibly overridden in the case of service dogs for persons with actual disabilities. That is why there is a question on whether a landlord can restrict units to those who are vaccinated. What about those who have a legitimate medical reason to not get the vaccine? Should they be denied a place to rent because of an allergy (which can be considered a disability)? Granted, that is very few of members of the population (and another reason to get vaccinated, to protect those people).


I hadn't considered the medical reasons which may prevent a prospective tennant from being vaccinated - That would be highly likely to fit under the "disability" clause, and so make the actions illegal:
Quote:
(2) It is unlawful to discriminate against any person in the terms, conditions, or privileges of sale or rental of a dwelling, or in the provision of services or facilities in connection therewith, because of race, color, national origin, sex, disability, familial status, or religion.
(3) It is unlawful to make, print, or publish, or cause to be made, printed, or published, any notice, statement, or advertisement with respect to the sale or rental of a dwelling that indicates any preference, limitation, or discrimination based on race, color, national origin, sex, disability, familial status, or religion or an intention to make any such preference, limitation, or discrimination.
(4) It is unlawful to represent to any person because of race, color, national origin, sex, disability, familial status, or religion that any dwelling is not available for inspection, sale, or rental when such dwelling is in fact so available.

Source: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0760/Sections/0760.23.html

There's also the fact that vaccination rates tend to be lower among certain racial groups, which could (potentially) also be used to infer the landlord is discriminating against (disproportionaly affecting) that group based on the low vaccination rates in that group.


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kraftiekortie
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16 Sep 2021, 12:39 pm

The racial disparity as to vaccination status is not THAT great.



demeus
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16 Sep 2021, 3:58 pm

Fnord wrote:
demeus wrote:
... What about those who have a legitimate medical reason to not get the vaccine? Should they be denied a place to rent because of an allergy (which can be considered a disability)? ...
Anyone who goes to THAT apartment complex knowing full well that they will be rejected for being unvaxxed can still go across the street, around the corner, or down the block and apply at another apartment complex instead.

Would you buy a vicious dog knowing that it could tear your arm off when there are dozens of other dogs nearby willing to lay on your lap and be petted?  Would you apply to rent an apartment knowing that your application would be rejected when there are dozens of other landlords willing to take you in?

Come on, people!  It is not as if the only oasis in the desert was posted as "Whites Only"!


This sounds quite a bit like the argument given for the county clerk in Kentucky who refused to give a gay couple a marriage license after the Supreme Court ruled that said license must be issued. Many argued that they could go to a different county, never mind that the county clerk in the county they resided in was breaking the law.

The same goes here. The fact that you can get an apartment elsewhere does not change the fact that what this landlord is doing might be illegal in the case of someone with a true disability which prevents them from getting the vaccine. The fact that one can go somewhere else does not change the legality.



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16 Sep 2021, 10:38 pm

Brictoria wrote:
Fnord wrote:
It seems odd that the same people citing "Religious Exemption" for refusing the covid vaccines do not cite the same reason for not getting vaccinated against the flu, rubella, mumps, measles, polio, and whooping cough.  They also seem to have no qualms about taking aspirin, benadryl, insulin, plavix, statins, or vitamin supplements on a daily basis.

Maybe this might help you understand the point of view of many of these people regarding the covid vaccinations, and how they differ from other medication:
Quote:
The use of cells from electively aborted fetuses for vaccine production makes these five COVID-19 vaccine programs potentially controversial and could reduce willingness of some to use the vaccine. While some may see no ethical problem, for many a straight line can be drawn from the ending of a human life in an abortion to a vaccine or drug created using cells derived from the harvesting of the fetal tissue. Even if the cells have been propagated for years in the laboratory far removed from the abortion, that connection line remains. Thus, use of such cells for vaccine production raises problems of conscience for anyone who might be offered that vaccine and is aware of its lineage.

Source: https://lozierinstitute.org/an-ethics-assessment-of-covid-19-vaccine-programs/


Informative.
I will ask the nurse to remove the vaccine from my body, now that this has been explained. :mrgreen:


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Pepe
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16 Sep 2021, 10:41 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
There is the issue of HIPAA....and a private landlord's right to access to a tenant's medical records.

I believe, if I was a landlord, that I would prefer a vaccinated tenant.


I'm not arguing, but vaccinated tenants can also get the virus and spread it around.
The jab only lessens the chance of getting seriously ill, so I have heard.
Does it also reduce the chance of getting infected in the first place?


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Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


Pepe
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16 Sep 2021, 10:43 pm

Fnord wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Fnord wrote:
It seems odd that the same people citing "Religious Exemption" for refusing the covid vaccines do not cite the same reason for not getting vaccinated against the flu, rubella, mumps, measles, polio, and whooping cough.  They also seem to have no qualms about taking aspirin, benadryl, insulin, plavix, statins, or vitamin supplements on a daily basis.
Maybe this might help you understand the point of view of many of these people...
]Who cares what ignorant people think, as long as they do not endanger themselves or others?

I say they are being both hypocritical and disingenuous by citing the "religious exemption" rule to avoid the coronavirus vaccine when they would gladly pop a few pills to avoid a headache.


Did you miss the part about fetal cells being used? 8O


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


Last edited by Pepe on 16 Sep 2021, 10:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

kraftiekortie
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16 Sep 2021, 10:44 pm

It also reduces the chance of somebody getting infected in the first place.



DW_a_mom
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16 Sep 2021, 10:45 pm

I would assume the landlord has been around the block enough times to know he has to accept valid medical reasons for not being vaccinated. If he doesn’t, his plan isn’t likely to hold up in court.


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Brictoria
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16 Sep 2021, 10:51 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
The racial disparity as to vaccination status is not THAT great.


It doesn't have to be a huge difference - just significant enough for a judge to say it exists.

BTW, I wasn't suggesting it would necessarily be a "good" area to focus on, should someone plan on taking the landlord to court, merely that it was a potential one that could be included in the case (if appropriate to the person doing so).


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Pepe
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16 Sep 2021, 10:52 pm

Brictoria wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Fnord wrote:
It seems odd that the same people citing "Religious Exemption" for refusing the covid vaccines do not cite the same reason for not getting vaccinated against the flu, rubella, mumps, measles, polio, and whooping cough.  They also seem to have no qualms about taking aspirin, benadryl, insulin, plavix, statins, or vitamin supplements on a daily basis.
Maybe this might help you understand the point of view of many of these people...
Who cares what ignorant people think, as long as they do not endanger themselves or others?

I say they are being both hypocritical and disingenuous by citing the "religious exemption" rule to avoid the coronavirus vaccine when they would gladly pop a few pills to avoid a headache.


Except the pills they "pop" aren't created through the use of aborted foetuses (as opposed to the vacines, which detail you thoughtfully cut from my post when "quoting" it, that were created using these), and so would not impact on their religious beliefs.

The fact you may not agree with those people on this point doesn't change the fact that to them this is a relevent, and important, consideration with regards to their religious beliefs.


This is not a case of people being ignorant, here.
There is a principle involved. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


Pepe
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16 Sep 2021, 11:03 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
It also reduces the chance of somebody getting infected in the first place.


So we have established:
-That even vaccinated people can get the virus.
-Being vaccinated is no guarantee the property will remain covid free.


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


DW_a_mom
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16 Sep 2021, 11:40 pm

Vaccines cut the risk of carrying the virus to 1/4.

The vaccines reduce the risk of serious illness and death to 1/10.

A landlord has a vested interest in his tenants dying as infrequently as possible.

For those concerned about fetal stem cells, this is a paper developed specifically to address the issue and that seems to understand the religious position, given that it specifically addresses Catholics https://sharedsystems.dhsoha.state.or.u ... e3592e.pdf

The linked analysis is far more detailed and accurate than the paragraph Brictoria provided. Multiple other sources confirm the same information. Note that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines do NOT use any fetal stem cells in their production. The only connection was early in the development and testing process where decades old stem cell lines were used. In my experience. most in the right to life community accept these older stem cell lines as useful for science without raising any ethical concerns about creating new supply.


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DW_a_mom
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16 Sep 2021, 11:59 pm

Brictoria wrote:
Fnord wrote:
It seems odd that the same people citing "Religious Exemption" for refusing the covid vaccines do not cite the same reason for not getting vaccinated against the flu, rubella, mumps, measles, polio, and whooping cough.  They also seem to have no qualms about taking aspirin, benadryl, insulin, plavix, statins, or vitamin supplements on a daily basis.

Maybe this might help you understand the point of view of many of these people regarding the covid vaccinations, and how they differ from other medication:
Quote:
The use of cells from electively aborted fetuses for vaccine production makes these five COVID-19 vaccine programs potentially controversial and could reduce willingness of some to use the vaccine. While some may see no ethical problem, for many a straight line can be drawn from the ending of a human life in an abortion to a vaccine or drug created using cells derived from the harvesting of the fetal tissue. Even if the cells have been propagated for years in the laboratory far removed from the abortion, that connection line remains. Thus, use of such cells for vaccine production raises problems of conscience for anyone who might be offered that vaccine and is aware of its lineage.

Source: https://lozierinstitute.org/an-ethics-assessment-of-covid-19-vaccine-programs/


I find the paragraph you quoted to be misleading in that it suggests those stem cells are still used in production. With the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, they are NOT.

I also understand that religious exemption is unique to an individual. But the Catholic Church, which essentially is the single largest right to life institution in the world, has been clear that they do not believe the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines to be morally compromised.

I am Catholic. We had this discussion with the broader extended family during one of our international zooms, and even our most conservative members got vaccinated.

None of that gets inside the head of any one person, of course, but it is worth asking if their position is based in an accurate application of faith to FACT, instead of faith to misinformation.

And then there are the unethical people selling faith and medical exemptions …


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Brictoria
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17 Sep 2021, 1:36 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Fnord wrote:
It seems odd that the same people citing "Religious Exemption" for refusing the covid vaccines do not cite the same reason for not getting vaccinated against the flu, rubella, mumps, measles, polio, and whooping cough.  They also seem to have no qualms about taking aspirin, benadryl, insulin, plavix, statins, or vitamin supplements on a daily basis.

Maybe this might help you understand the point of view of many of these people regarding the covid vaccinations, and how they differ from other medication:
Quote:
The use of cells from electively aborted fetuses for vaccine production makes these five COVID-19 vaccine programs potentially controversial and could reduce willingness of some to use the vaccine. While some may see no ethical problem, for many a straight line can be drawn from the ending of a human life in an abortion to a vaccine or drug created using cells derived from the harvesting of the fetal tissue. Even if the cells have been propagated for years in the laboratory far removed from the abortion, that connection line remains. Thus, use of such cells for vaccine production raises problems of conscience for anyone who might be offered that vaccine and is aware of its lineage.

Source: https://lozierinstitute.org/an-ethics-assessment-of-covid-19-vaccine-programs/


I find the paragraph you quoted to be misleading in that it suggests those stem cells are still used in production. With the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, they are NOT.

I also understand that religious exemption is unique to an individual. But the Catholic Church, which essentially is the single largest right to life institution in the world, has been clear that they do not believe the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines to be morally compromised.

I am Catholic. We had this discussion with the broader extended family during one of our international zooms, and even our most conservative members got vaccinated.

None of that gets inside the head of any one person, of course, but it is worth asking if their position is based in an accurate application of faith to FACT, instead of faith to misinformation.

And then there are the unethical people selling faith and medical exemptions …

It may be "misleading", but it is an example of why some people have qualms about the vaccine, which was the reason I quoted it.

I'm not saying their reasons are or are not valid (this is an individual matter for them, centered around their personal religious beliefs) - I was merely trying to explain why to some people the vaccines are not acceptable to them for religious reasons, and how they may differ from the "popping a pill" or other vaccinations (to which this vaccine was being equated in the post I replied to) in those people's minds.

Off Topic
Note: The following is from memory.
With regards to the Catholic church - This is not the "monolithic" entity you present it as - Unless the pontiff has proclaimed something "Ex cathedra", it is not a "compulsary" belief by the adherents to the church, nor part of church doctrine.

There is also the issue that there are many religious orders within the church, each having its own interpretations of various areas of the church's teachings (commonly, those of the "Society of Jesus" are referred to by the media on "social" issues, but their views are not necesarily representative of the church as a whole).


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