Verdict returned in Rittenhouse trial

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cyberdad
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02 Dec 2021, 4:11 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
[ Doesn’t look like self defence to me.


It's all a matter of interpreting self-defense when one person has a gun. The margins are really quite thin.

The scenarios are beginning to remind me of gladiator fights in the Roman colosseum or duels from the middle ages being dealt with (trial by combat). It's utterly barbaric.



Pepe
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02 Dec 2021, 5:12 pm

Dox47 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Another shooting of an unarmed man claimed as self-defense. This is going to get out of control



I'd been thinking of posting this myself, as this case is genuinely perplexing, as it may be a legal shoot, but most people, including me, don't think it was a good one. That being said, chest bumping an armed man on his own property while screaming at him to shoot you after he asks you to leave definitely qualifies for the Darwin award in my book.


Evolution culls people like this from the gene pool.
Evolution can be brutal. 8O



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02 Dec 2021, 5:28 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Another shooting of an unarmed man claimed as self-defense. This is going to get out of control


Wow so similar to Rittenhouse.

1. Victim asks shooter to shoot -- like Rosenbaum -- before being shot.
2. Victim was unarmed.
3. Victim grabbed for rifle.
4. Shooter claims self defense.
https://www.fox7austin.com/news/texas-m ... ex-husband


Some differences:
-Rittenhouse was threatened with death. The person here was inviting himself to be shot.
-Rittenhouse was surrounded by a mob. The person here, while being much larger, was just one man wanting his son.
(Give him his son, FFS. 8O )

This is *not* a carbon copy of the Rittenhouse situation, imo, but of course the defense team will portray it as such. 8)



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02 Dec 2021, 5:36 pm

Dox47 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Another shooting of an unarmed man claimed as self-defense. This is going to get out of control



I'd been thinking of posting this myself, as this case is genuinely perplexing, as it may be a legal shoot, but most people, including me, don't think it was a good one. That being said, chest bumping an armed man on his own property while screaming at him to shoot you after he asks you to leave definitely qualifies for the Darwin award in my book.


Had the smaller man not produced a weapon, I suspect things would have turned out differently.
And why was the father denied access to his son?
He had a legal right to see him.

This is *not* a progressive against a conservative, to my knowledge, BTW.
Could we keep politics out of this particular tragedy? 8)



Pepe
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02 Dec 2021, 5:53 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Another shooting of an unarmed man claimed as self-defense. This is going to get out of control


Wow so similar to Rittenhouse.

1. Victim asks shooter to shoot -- like Rosenbaum -- before being shot.
2. Victim was unarmed.
3. Victim grabbed for rifle.
4. Shooter claims self defense.
https://www.fox7austin.com/news/texas-m ... ex-husband


Yes, it;s interesting, refer back to the Ahmed Arbery case and you'll see McMichael also claimed points 2-4 but he got murder.
The line between getting charged for murder and getting off free for self-defense is actually razor thin.


No it isn’t. It’s something like ~$2 Million in crowd funded legal fees and public support from the political right.

Edit: Just watched this video. The dead guy doesn’t appear to ever grab or attempt to take the gun ?? And then he physically threw/pushed the shooter away from him - while unarmed - how exactly is he a lethal threat for putting distance between himself and the shooter? He also never takes a swing at the guy or anything. Doesn’t look like self defence to me.


I tend to agree with your appraisal.
At the time the commentator said "They fought for the gun", there was no evidence of this. The larger man simply moved it away with his wrist. Later, it might be argued he did try to take the gun by its barrel.

However, when the larger man was shot, it was at a distance without him lunging at the smaller man.
I think that was a bad move by the killer.



Pepe
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02 Dec 2021, 5:59 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Pepe wrote:
I tend to avoid someone with a weapon, not rush up to attack them.
But hey, that is just me. 8)



You would think this would be common sense, but apparently it is not. I've done a little open carry in Seattle when I was late on a CPL renewal and it was my only legal option for carrying a pistol, the vast majority of people didn't even notice, they don't habitually scan the beltlines of strangers, and their eyes tend to glide over a black pistol in a black holster over black pants, they might even "see" a phone instead out of habit. I've seen a few other open carriers there over the years, they're not particularly common, but it's just not a big deal, and this is Seattle I'm talking about.


You changed the context.
My context involved a threatening situation. 8)
I still luv you, however. :heart: :mrgreen:



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02 Dec 2021, 6:00 pm

ironpony wrote:
Well another thing I've noticed is, it seems a lot of Americans hate the jury system, as they try to pressure and threaten jurors to give a certain verdict, such as in this trial, or the Derek Chauvin trial, etc. But I wonder, do a lot of Americans think the jury system therefore stinks, and they would prefer a different system in place?

They hate it when they disagree with it, think it is sacrosanct when they agree.


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ASPartOfMe
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02 Dec 2021, 6:02 pm

Pepe wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Another shooting of an unarmed man claimed as self-defense. This is going to get out of control



I'd been thinking of posting this myself, as this case is genuinely perplexing, as it may be a legal shoot, but most people, including me, don't think it was a good one. That being said, chest bumping an armed man on his own property while screaming at him to shoot you after he asks you to leave definitely qualifies for the Darwin award in my book.


Had the smaller man not produced a weapon, I suspect things would have turned out differently.
And why was the father denied access to his son?
He had a legal right to see him.

This is *not* a progressive against a conservative, to my knowledge, BTW.
Could we keep politics out of this particular tragedy? 8)

This is America, who we masturbate would be political if the activity and thoughts during it are not usually done in private.


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Pepe
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02 Dec 2021, 6:11 pm

ironpony wrote:
Well another thing I've noticed is, it seems a lot of Americans hate the jury system, as they try to pressure and threaten jurors to give a certain verdict, such as in this trial, or the Derek Chauvin trial, etc. But I wonder, do a lot of Americans think the jury system therefore stinks, and they would prefer a different system in place?


I believe this is the norm, these days, in high profile race-based trials.
It could be argued that both sides of politics may have been involved in the Rittenhouse case, imo.

But Rittenhouse's wasn't a "race-based" trial, however.
No POC was harmed in the production of this...err, forget it. :mrgreen:

Some/many(?) progressives are simply ignoring the fact there was no racial context, so as to exploit the trial for their own political agenda.
And White Supremacists have done the same in terms of the right to carry arms. 8)
Surely, people can see this? :scratch:



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02 Dec 2021, 6:13 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
The dead guy doesn’t appear to ever grab or attempt to take the gun ??

at 57 seconds, the victim appears to have his hand on the rifle

He appears to throw the other man while keeping one hand on the rifle.


Aah, yeah, it seems he grabbed the rifle and swung the guy away by it. Big difference between swinging him away to put distance and trying to pull the rifle towards him and take it, though.


Agreed.
There doesn't seem to be a "tussle" for the gun.



Pepe
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02 Dec 2021, 6:19 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Another shooting of an unarmed man claimed as self-defense. This is going to get out of control



I'd been thinking of posting this myself, as this case is genuinely perplexing, as it may be a legal shoot, but most people, including me, don't think it was a good one. That being said, chest bumping an armed man on his own property while screaming at him to shoot you after he asks you to leave definitely qualifies for the Darwin award in my book.


Had the smaller man not produced a weapon, I suspect things would have turned out differently.
And why was the father denied access to his son?
He had a legal right to see him.

This is *not* a progressive against a conservative, to my knowledge, BTW.
Could we keep politics out of this particular tragedy? 8)

This is America, who we masturbate would be political if the activity and thoughts during it are not usually done in private.


"Who" or "how"?
The former makes me wonder about your sexual preferences.
Kinky. :mrgreen:



DW_a_mom
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02 Dec 2021, 7:12 pm

Pepe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
In other words, you are pointing out how violent extreme progressives are.
Good point. :thumright:


I'll happily admit to being partial to progressive thinking but I notice for somebody who claims not to be neutral and "non-partisan", you sure repeat these lines regularly over many years.


Have you noticed my position regarding gun ownership in America? :scratch:
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=401779&start=528#p8916401

I believe this is the progressive position, not a Republican one.

You Your argument has been invalidated. 8)

Also, I have always maintained that there are ratbags on *both* sides of the political divide.
Hyperpartisan progressives won't accept this.
Do you? :scratch:

Also, I am anti-Trump.
I believe he is damaging American social harmony, big time.

Also, I believe in a "Universal Health Care System".
This is also a progressive position.

Epic fail, cyberdude. 8)


I hope you can take this the right way, and not be offended: I would clarify that you are more bi-political or non-binary when it comes to politics, rather than “neutral,” or an “observer.” Once you choose a position, you can exhibit “partisan” dedication to and defense of it. Being quick to throw partisan accusations at others doesn’t help, as that tends to be a politically partisan charge. I've also only seen you throw that charge at liberals, never at conservatives, which does not exactly come off as non-partisan, even if your actual policy views tend progressive.


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cyberdad
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02 Dec 2021, 7:43 pm

@pepe

I know you are trying to be non-partisan (I respect that) but you always paint a picture that progressives are aggressive and dangerous. This is a misrepresentation. I've posted countless times that the FBI consider right wing groups/individuals to be the biggest threat to public safety.

Progressive social activists whom you claim make you hide under your bedsheets over are actually just college students trying to make a difference in this world.



Last edited by cyberdad on 02 Dec 2021, 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cyberdad
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02 Dec 2021, 7:46 pm

Pepe wrote:
Some differences:
-Rittenhouse was threatened with death.


I don't think even the Rittenhouse defence team made that claim? The best they got away with was that Rittenhouse "thought" his life was in danger.



skrish234
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02 Dec 2021, 7:48 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Some differences:
-Rittenhouse was threatened with death.


I don't think even the Rittenhouse defence team made that claim? The best they got away with was that Rittenhouse "thought" his life was in danger.

Turns out that a lot of people aren't exactly happy about it?



cyberdad
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02 Dec 2021, 7:52 pm

skrish234 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Some differences:
-Rittenhouse was threatened with death.


I don't think even the Rittenhouse defence team made that claim? The best they got away with was that Rittenhouse "thought" his life was in danger.

Turns out that a lot of people aren't exactly happy about it?


That and him wandering around Kenosha with a loaded weapon during a curfew