Trump finally reveals his Anti-Semitism.

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kraftiekortie
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17 Oct 2022, 7:32 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians

Here is a relatively objective description of "Palestinians." They have been around since Biblical days and previously.



Matrix Glitch
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17 Oct 2022, 7:42 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
^^^
As far as the book of Joshua is concerned, Christ's call to love your neighbor and to turn the other cheek circumvents that.

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34
Kraichgauer wrote:
As for the Muslims "trying" to take over the Holy Land - - they already had. They had been living there for centuries.
In my system of beliefs, I don't need a geographic location, as Christ said, "Where two or three of you are gathered, I am there."

Like I said, the point is that Christians have always viewed Israel as the Holy Land.



Kraichgauer
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17 Oct 2022, 7:45 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
^^^
As far as the book of Joshua is concerned, Christ's call to love your neighbor and to turn the other cheek circumvents that.

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34
Kraichgauer wrote:
As for the Muslims "trying" to take over the Holy Land - - they already had. They had been living there for centuries.
In my system of beliefs, I don't need a geographic location, as Christ said, "Where two or three of you are gathered, I am there."

Like I said, the point is that Christians have always viewed Israel as the Holy Land.


Christ was talking about the violent reaction his message would cause, not that he or his followers would use violence.
Nothing wrong with Christian tourism to Israel, or even missions. But it's not ours to take, especially as we have no need of it.


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naturalplastic
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17 Oct 2022, 8:12 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
^^^
As far as the book of Joshua is concerned, Christ's call to love your neighbor and to turn the other cheek circumvents that.

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34
Kraichgauer wrote:
As for the Muslims "trying" to take over the Holy Land - - they already had. They had been living there for centuries.
In my system of beliefs, I don't need a geographic location, as Christ said, "Where two or three of you are gathered, I am there."

Like I said, the point is that Christians have always viewed Israel as the Holy Land.


The point is that you are rather ass backward in your understanding of the facts.

Christians had ceased living in "the Holy Land" four centuries before the Crusades were launched. The "Holy Land" had been inhabited by Muslim Arabs in those four centuries. So like the later Jewish Zionists of today the Crusaders were the aggressors out to steal land from the locals in the name of a religion. Not the other way around. Both groups felt they had to 'take back' the very same piece of land (Israel) because both groups thought that their holy book gave them claim to the land.



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17 Oct 2022, 8:35 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
^^^
As far as the book of Joshua is concerned, Christ's call to love your neighbor and to turn the other cheek circumvents that.

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34
Kraichgauer wrote:
As for the Muslims "trying" to take over the Holy Land - - they already had. They had been living there for centuries.
In my system of beliefs, I don't need a geographic location, as Christ said, "Where two or three of you are gathered, I am there."

Like I said, the point is that Christians have always viewed Israel as the Holy Land.


The point is that you are rather ass backward in your understanding of the facts.

Christians had ceased living in "the Holy Land" four centuries before the Crusades were launched. The "Holy Land" had been inhabited by Muslim Arabs in those four centuries. So like the later Jewish Zionists of today the Crusaders were the aggressors out to steal land from the locals in the name of a religion. Not the other way around. Both groups felt they had to 'take back' the very same piece of land (Israel) because both groups thought that their holy book gave them claim to the land.

Would you care to explain the Church of the Holy Sepulcher located in the Christian Quarter of Jerusalem consecrated in 335 AD with a capacity of 8,000 and still operating? Muhammad who founded Islam was born in 570 AD, 235 years later.



Kraichgauer
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17 Oct 2022, 8:51 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
^^^
As far as the book of Joshua is concerned, Christ's call to love your neighbor and to turn the other cheek circumvents that.

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34
Kraichgauer wrote:
As for the Muslims "trying" to take over the Holy Land - - they already had. They had been living there for centuries.
In my system of beliefs, I don't need a geographic location, as Christ said, "Where two or three of you are gathered, I am there."

Like I said, the point is that Christians have always viewed Israel as the Holy Land.


The point is that you are rather ass backward in your understanding of the facts.

Christians had ceased living in "the Holy Land" four centuries before the Crusades were launched. The "Holy Land" had been inhabited by Muslim Arabs in those four centuries. So like the later Jewish Zionists of today the Crusaders were the aggressors out to steal land from the locals in the name of a religion. Not the other way around. Both groups felt they had to 'take back' the very same piece of land (Israel) because both groups thought that their holy book gave them claim to the land.

Would you care to explain the Church of the Holy Sepulcher located in the Christian Quarter of Jerusalem consecrated in 335 AD with a capacity of 8,000 and still operating? Muhammad who founded Islam was born in 570 AD, 235 years later.


Sure, the Muslims were invaders. But so were the Christians during the crusades.


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17 Oct 2022, 9:00 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Would you care to explain the Church of the Holy Sepulcher located in the Christian Quarter of Jerusalem consecrated in 335 AD with a capacity of 8,000 and still operating? Muhammad who founded Islam was born in 570 AD, 235 years later.


Sure, the Muslims were invaders. But so were the Christians during the crusades.

There have always been Christian churches and Christians making pilgrimages there, ever since Christianity was established there. The Crusades started because they were being attacked by the Muslims who came into the picture 600 years later. Church of the Holy Sepulcher: 335 AD. Dome of the Rock: 1023 AD.



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17 Oct 2022, 9:09 pm

I'd still rather have Trump than Biden.


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17 Oct 2022, 9:33 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Would you care to explain the Church of the Holy Sepulcher located in the Christian Quarter of Jerusalem consecrated in 335 AD with a capacity of 8,000 and still operating? Muhammad who founded Islam was born in 570 AD, 235 years later.


Sure, the Muslims were invaders. But so were the Christians during the crusades.

There have always been Christian churches and Christians making pilgrimages there, ever since Christianity was established there. The Crusades started because they were being attacked by the Muslims who came into the picture 600 years later. Church of the Holy Sepulcher: 335 AD. Dome of the Rock: 1023 AD.


But that doesn't justify violence by anyone, least of all in the name of faith.


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17 Oct 2022, 10:09 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Would you care to explain the Church of the Holy Sepulcher located in the Christian Quarter of Jerusalem consecrated in 335 AD with a capacity of 8,000 and still operating? Muhammad who founded Islam was born in 570 AD, 235 years later.


Sure, the Muslims were invaders. But so were the Christians during the crusades.

There have always been Christian churches and Christians making pilgrimages there, ever since Christianity was established there. The Crusades started because they were being attacked by the Muslims who came into the picture 600 years later. Church of the Holy Sepulcher: 335 AD. Dome of the Rock: 1023 AD.


But that doesn't justify violence by anyone, least of all in the name of faith.

This is a good conversation but it's gotten off track. My original comment which started it, was that someone being critical of Jews regarding their relationship with Israel, doesn't necessarily equate to being antisemitic. And like with many issues in the land of the woke, it's probably non-Jews making such accusations, rather then the Jews themselves.



Kraichgauer
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17 Oct 2022, 10:26 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Would you care to explain the Church of the Holy Sepulcher located in the Christian Quarter of Jerusalem consecrated in 335 AD with a capacity of 8,000 and still operating? Muhammad who founded Islam was born in 570 AD, 235 years later.


Sure, the Muslims were invaders. But so were the Christians during the crusades.

There have always been Christian churches and Christians making pilgrimages there, ever since Christianity was established there. The Crusades started because they were being attacked by the Muslims who came into the picture 600 years later. Church of the Holy Sepulcher: 335 AD. Dome of the Rock: 1023 AD.


But that doesn't justify violence by anyone, least of all in the name of faith.

This is a good conversation but it's gotten off track. My original comment which started it, was that someone being critical of Jews regarding their relationship with Israel, doesn't necessarily equate to being antisemitic. And like with many issues in the land of the woke, it's probably non-Jews making such accusations, rather then the Jews themselves.


Just because someone is Jewish doesn't mean they can't be critical of Israel. After all, Anti-Semites have questioned the loyalty of Jewish citizens out of a supposed dual loyalty. Therein lies the criticism of Trump for his assumption that Jewish Americans have that sort of dual loyalty.
My family are German Lutherans, and during the first world war, other Americans had questioned their loyalty because they had had fond memories of Germany passed down to them. But in both cases, we are first and foremost Americans, whether you're talking about my German Lutheran family, or Jewish Americans.


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17 Oct 2022, 10:38 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Just because someone is Jewish doesn't mean they can't be critical of Israel. After all, Anti-Semites have questioned the loyalty of Jewish citizens out of a supposed dual loyalty. Therein lies the criticism of Trump for his assumption that Jewish Americans have that sort of dual loyalty.
My family are German Lutherans, and during the first world war, other Americans had questioned their loyalty because they had had fond memories of Germany passed down to them. But in both cases, we are first and foremost Americans, whether you're talking about my German Lutheran family, or Jewish Americans.

It seems in Trump's case, he was saying he didn't think they are as loyal to Israel as they should be. The question is, does such a comment equate to expressing hatred towards Jews?



naturalplastic
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17 Oct 2022, 10:46 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
^^^
As far as the book of Joshua is concerned, Christ's call to love your neighbor and to turn the other cheek circumvents that.

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34
Kraichgauer wrote:
As for the Muslims "trying" to take over the Holy Land - - they already had. They had been living there for centuries.
In my system of beliefs, I don't need a geographic location, as Christ said, "Where two or three of you are gathered, I am there."

Like I said, the point is that Christians have always viewed Israel as the Holy Land.


The point is that you are rather ass backward in your understanding of the facts.

Christians had ceased living in "the Holy Land" four centuries before the Crusades were launched. The "Holy Land" had been inhabited by Muslim Arabs in those four centuries. So like the later Jewish Zionists of today the Crusaders were the aggressors out to steal land from the locals in the name of a religion. Not the other way around. Both groups felt they had to 'take back' the very same piece of land (Israel) because both groups thought that their holy book gave them claim to the land.

Would you care to explain the Church of the Holy Sepulcher located in the Christian Quarter of Jerusalem consecrated in 335 AD with a capacity of 8,000 and still operating? Muhammad who founded Islam was born in 570 AD, 235 years later.


You poor ignorant thing.

Thats exactly what I said. Christianity held sway in the region prior to the expansion of the Arabs and Islam.

Christianity spread throughout the Roman Empire. But around 500 AD the western half of the Roman Empire collapsed. The Eastern remained, ruled from Constantinople, and evolved into the Byzantine Empire. Rome lost its its temporable power, but remained the seat of the Catholic Church. Constantinople became the seat of the Eastern orthodox church.

But south of the pale of the Byzantine empire, down in Arabia the desert tribes united behind Mohammed and his new faith. They spilled out of Arabia in the Sixth Centurey, and seized huge areas away from the Byzantines like what is now Iraq, Syria, Israel/Palestine, and Egypt. By AD 700 there was one huge Muslim Caliphate stretching from Portugal to Pakistan (all of Iberia, North Africa, the mideast except for Turkey, Iran, and Pakistan). The "Holy Land" was just one flyspeck sized area, converted to Islam, in this vast Caliphate. By the time of the first Crusade the prevailing local faith in Israel/Palestine had been Muslim for four centuries. The Christian Byzantines had been kicked out long ago. Doesnt mean that there werent relics of the one time Christian presence in the area like the tourist attraction churches you mention. The Muslims tolerated Christian pilgrims. The whole point of the Crusades was steal back something that Christians felt had been stolen from them.



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17 Oct 2022, 11:33 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
You poor ignorant thing.

Due to your chronic rudeness towards me, I'm not going reply to you any longer.



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17 Oct 2022, 11:50 pm

In 1009 Fatimid caliph al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah ordered the complete destruction of the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem as part of a more general campaign against Christian places of worship in Palestine. Christian Europe reacted with shock which lead to the Crusades starting in 1095.



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17 Oct 2022, 11:53 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Just because someone is Jewish doesn't mean they can't be critical of Israel. After all, Anti-Semites have questioned the loyalty of Jewish citizens out of a supposed dual loyalty. Therein lies the criticism of Trump for his assumption that Jewish Americans have that sort of dual loyalty.
My family are German Lutherans, and during the first world war, other Americans had questioned their loyalty because they had had fond memories of Germany passed down to them. But in both cases, we are first and foremost Americans, whether you're talking about my German Lutheran family, or Jewish Americans.

It seems in Trump's case, he was saying he didn't think they are as loyal to Israel as they should be. The question is, does such a comment equate to expressing hatred towards Jews?


But that Trump thinks American Jews should feel any loyalty to a foreign country like Israel says he thinks Jews have divided loyalties, which in turn is Anti-Semitic.


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