Neil Young's music removed from Spotify

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VegetableMan
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28 Jan 2022, 3:02 pm

Fnord wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
. . . it's far better to counter misinformation with debunking it , rather than censoring it. . .
Yet, when misinformation is debunked, you respond with ridicule and further entrenchment in your beliefs.


Again, you are clueless to what I'm trying to say. Jesus f*****g Christ! Beliefs have nothing to do with it.


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28 Jan 2022, 3:21 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Of course it's about profits, just like the lies and disinformation coming from MSM is about profits.

Perhaps, also, the fact that Spotify's CEO, Daniel Ek, is Swedish plays a small part of the decision. Freedom of speech is fiercely defended, unlike what is happening in the U.S.

The absurdity of deplatforming people over perceived misinformation is mind-boggling -- debunking it is how it should be handled. Censorship is totally repugnant to me. Keeping an open conversation surrounding Covid and vaccines is necessary. People championing Rogan's removal just don't understand what is going on.

Let's not forget that CNN lied about Ivermectin, and when Rogan exposed the lies, they doubled down on their BS.


Freedom of speech does not mean companies that provide online platforms for streaming and online social interaction have to allow everyone to say whatever they want there. All it means is the government cannot penalize you for speech unless it specifically is inciting violence (like threatening someone or groups of people) or mass chaos/panic(like yelling fire in a crowded movie theater).

It's just some people think Freedom of speech means 'I get to say whatever I want whenever I want and people have to listen to me and even provide me with online platforms to reach more people even if they don't want to!. When in reality freedom of speech also means people don't have to listen to you or provide you with any means to reach more people if they don't like what you say.


Yes, yes! Private companies! That argument is getting very tiresome. Sorry, but that does not negate the fact that the people doing the censoring have an interest in maintaining the corporate state, and controlling the narrative.

Nobody who continually comes at me with this argument will ever address that's it's far better to counter misinformation with debunking it , rather than censoring it. Show me one one historical example where censorship ever leads to anything positive.


I think Germanys censorship of nazi ideology seems to work pretty good for them...here if nazis want to organize they can even get police protection from the angry counter-protestors who don't want them in their town. In Germany the police would be arresting the nazis.

Also, if covid misinformation was censored more, perhaps there wouldn't be as many people dead from Covid and maybe this stupid pandemic would be over by now.


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28 Jan 2022, 3:41 pm

Things wouldn't be censored if lot if people weren't stupid.


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VegetableMan
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28 Jan 2022, 3:49 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Of course it's about profits, just like the lies and disinformation coming from MSM is about profits.

Perhaps, also, the fact that Spotify's CEO, Daniel Ek, is Swedish plays a small part of the decision. Freedom of speech is fiercely defended, unlike what is happening in the U.S.

The absurdity of deplatforming people over perceived misinformation is mind-boggling -- debunking it is how it should be handled. Censorship is totally repugnant to me. Keeping an open conversation surrounding Covid and vaccines is necessary. People championing Rogan's removal just don't understand what is going on.

Let's not forget that CNN lied about Ivermectin, and when Rogan exposed the lies, they doubled down on their BS.


Freedom of speech does not mean companies that provide online platforms for streaming and online social interaction have to allow everyone to say whatever they want there. All it means is the government cannot penalize you for speech unless it specifically is inciting violence (like threatening someone or groups of people) or mass chaos/panic(like yelling fire in a crowded movie theater).

It's just some people think Freedom of speech means 'I get to say whatever I want whenever I want and people have to listen to me and even provide me with online platforms to reach more people even if they don't want to!. When in reality freedom of speech also means people don't have to listen to you or provide you with any means to reach more people if they don't like what you say.


Yes, yes! Private companies! That argument is getting very tiresome. Sorry, but that does not negate the fact that the people doing the censoring have an interest in maintaining the corporate state, and controlling the narrative.

Nobody who continually comes at me with this argument will ever address that's it's far better to counter misinformation with debunking it , rather than censoring it. Show me one one historical example where censorship ever leads to anything positive.


I think Germanys censorship of nazi ideology seems to work pretty good for them...here if nazis want to organize they can even get police protection from the angry counter-protestors who don't want them in their town. In Germany the police would be arresting the nazis.

Also, if covid misinformation was censored more, perhaps there wouldn't be as many people dead from Covid and maybe this stupid pandemic would be over by now.



It was the U.S. and the other Western allies who imposed that restriction on Germany in the wake of the Nazi defeat in 1945, which didn't exactly jive with the First Amendment in our country. But given the horrors that occurred under the Nazi regime, I can understand it, even if I don't agree with it on principle.

As I said, there is plenty of misinformation coming from official sources. That will never be censored, obviously. So I think you should be very careful what you wish for. Also, not everything that is being censored is disinformation.


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VegetableMan
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28 Jan 2022, 4:02 pm

League_Girl wrote:
Things wouldn't be censored if lot if people weren't stupid.


Would it not be better to simply debunk the disinformation? That's how it works in a free society. Also, the people doing the censoring are spreading disinformation as well.


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28 Jan 2022, 4:43 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Of course it's about profits, just like the lies and disinformation coming from MSM is about profits.

Perhaps, also, the fact that Spotify's CEO, Daniel Ek, is Swedish plays a small part of the decision. Freedom of speech is fiercely defended, unlike what is happening in the U.S.

The absurdity of deplatforming people over perceived misinformation is mind-boggling -- debunking it is how it should be handled. Censorship is totally repugnant to me. Keeping an open conversation surrounding Covid and vaccines is necessary. People championing Rogan's removal just don't understand what is going on.

Let's not forget that CNN lied about Ivermectin, and when Rogan exposed the lies, they doubled down on their BS.


Freedom of speech does not mean companies that provide online platforms for streaming and online social interaction have to allow everyone to say whatever they want there. All it means is the government cannot penalize you for speech unless it specifically is inciting violence (like threatening someone or groups of people) or mass chaos/panic(like yelling fire in a crowded movie theater).

It's just some people think Freedom of speech means 'I get to say whatever I want whenever I want and people have to listen to me and even provide me with online platforms to reach more people even if they don't want to!. When in reality freedom of speech also means people don't have to listen to you or provide you with any means to reach more people if they don't like what you say.


Yes, yes! Private companies! That argument is getting very tiresome. Sorry, but that does not negate the fact that the people doing the censoring have an interest in maintaining the corporate state, and controlling the narrative.

Nobody who continually comes at me with this argument will ever address that's it's far better to counter misinformation with debunking it , rather than censoring it. Show me one one historical example where censorship ever leads to anything positive.


I think Germanys censorship of nazi ideology seems to work pretty good for them...here if nazis want to organize they can even get police protection from the angry counter-protestors who don't want them in their town. In Germany the police would be arresting the nazis.

Also, if covid misinformation was censored more, perhaps there wouldn't be as many people dead from Covid and maybe this stupid pandemic would be over by now.



It was the U.S. and the other Western allies who imposed that restriction on Germany in the wake of the Nazi defeat in 1945, which didn't exactly jive with the First Amendment in our country. But given the horrors that occurred under the Nazi regime, I can understand it, even if I don't agree with it on principle.

As I said, there is plenty of misinformation coming from official sources. That will never be censored, obviously. So I think you should be very careful what you wish for. Also, not everything that is being censored is disinformation.


The western Allies should have imposed that restriction on themselves to, then maybe we wouldn't have nazis in the U.K and U.S.

And misinformation like what coming from official sources?


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28 Jan 2022, 5:10 pm

Fauci for one.
no masks required, then masks required, then two masks required.
Kids should be in school, then remove the kids from school.

Biden and Harris, don’t trust the vaccine, look at us take the vaccine, mandate to force the vaccine.

CDC, changing the return to school requirement after the Teachers union wrote a letter that was requested by the WH. Still have not define how many died with vs from covid.



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28 Jan 2022, 5:16 pm

autisticelders wrote:
I fully support his choice.

As do I.


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28 Jan 2022, 5:36 pm

I'm just glad to be here.



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28 Jan 2022, 6:07 pm

They are constantly lying about the vaccines. Biden himself claimed on national T.V. that getting the jabs will keep you from getting the virus, as did Rachael Maddow not terribly long ago. CNN lied about Ivermectin of course, trying to pin an anti-vaxx label on Rogan.


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28 Jan 2022, 11:28 pm

The obvious solution is for Fauci to go on Rogan and have a conversation with him, I'm being dead serious.

Rogan just recently had an Australian journalist on named Josh Szeps who engaged Rogan on a number of misconceptions Rogan had about the Australian lockdowns, vaccines, etc, and by the end of it Rogan was thanking Szeps for setting him straight on a whole bunch of things he had wrong, and made public statements acknowledging his errors. This is better than the vast majority of media, someone who is curious about the world, will engage with critics, and change his mind in public is rare enough, such a man with a huge following and platform is a blessing.


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29 Jan 2022, 1:29 am

Fnord wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
. . . it's far better to counter misinformation with debunking it , rather than censoring it. . .
Yet, when misinformation is debunked, you respond with ridicule and further entrenchment in your beliefs.


Quote:
Just let the anti-vaxxers, climate deniers, and 5G conspiracy theorists live without the constant threat of content removal and bans, lest they flee to even more radical hubs on niche sites and other obscure parts of the internet, the Royal Society has concluded.

The Royal Society is the UK’s national academy of sciences. On Wednesday, it published a report on what it calls the “online information environment,” challenging some key assumptions behind the movement to de-platform conspiracy theorists spreading hoax info on topics like climate change, 5G, and the coronavirus.

Based on literature reviews, workshops and roundtables with academic experts and fact-checking groups, and two surveys in the UK, the Royal Society reached several conclusions. The first is that while online misinformation is rampant, its influence may be exaggerated, at least as far as the UK goes: “the vast majority of respondents believe the COVID-19 vaccines are safe, that human activity is responsible for climate change, and that 5G technology is not harmful.” The second is that the impact of so-called echo chambers may be similarly exaggerated and there’s little evidence to support the “filter bubble” hypothesis (basically, algorithm-fueled extremist rabbit holes). The researchers also highlighted that many debates about what constitutes misinformation are rooted in disputes within the scientific community and that the anti-vax movement is far broader than any one set of beliefs or motivations.

One of the main takeaways: The government and social media companies should not rely on “constant removal” of misleading content, which is not a “solution to online scientific misinformation.”

Source: https://gizmodo.com/researchers-say-bans-on-scientific-misinformation-arent-1848385764

Royal Society report on which the story is based: https://royalsociety.org/-/media/policy/projects/online-information-environment/the-online-information-environment.pdf?la=en-GB&hash=691F34A269075C0001A0E647C503DB8F


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29 Jan 2022, 4:04 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:
I don't even know what Spotify is per se. I listen to my 70s music on youtube.

^^^^
This


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29 Jan 2022, 4:17 am

Joni Mitchell wants songs off Spotify in Covid row

Quote:
Singer Joni Mitchell has joined Neil Young in asking for her music to be removed from Spotify over Covid misinformation concerns.

"Irresponsible people are spreading lies that are costing people their lives," the Canadian singer said in a post on her official website.

In her message on Friday, Mitchell, whose hits include Big Yellow Taxi, said she stands in solidarity with the Canadian-American singer, Neil Young, and with the "global scientific and medical communities".

Neil Young and Joni Mitchell have been friends for many years, and are both survivors of polio. They both contracted the disease in the early 1950s, not long before a vaccine became available.

Unlike Young, Mitchell did not specifically name Mr Rogan in her post.

However, she did include a link to an open letter signed by a group of scientists and medical professionals, which criticised Spotify for hosting Rogan's podcast, the Joe Rogan Experience.

The Joe Rogan Experience is Spotify's most popular podcast, with a reported 200 million downloads a month. The streaming platform is said to have paid $100m (£75m) for rights to it.

In the past, Rogan has said he is "not an anti-vax person", and that he believes the vaccines are safe and encourages many people to get them.

Clearly, when it comes to "unconventional" COVID treatments she does not believe in Both Sides Now :D


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29 Jan 2022, 4:29 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:

Who is that?

I "knew" about Neil Young, courtesy of Lynard Skynard, but I don't believe that I have ever heard of this person before.

Maybe this isn't so much a desire for them to have their product removed, but rather a desire for people to become aware of their existence?


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29 Jan 2022, 5:50 am

Uh, Joni Mitchell is not worried about people knowing who she is :lol: