Trudeau flees as first 1,000 Trucks Arrive in Ottawa

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Brictoria
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12 Feb 2022, 12:35 am



RetroGamer87
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12 Feb 2022, 12:39 am

George VI spent World War 2 in London. The luftwaffe didn't scare him but Trudeau is scared of some scientifically illiterate truckers?


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12 Feb 2022, 1:55 am

MaxE wrote:
^^^ Sorry you're not luring me down that rabbit hole. Maybe Mom wants a go.


Me? Not really; best to avoid re-debating ancient history since my memory fades. If I couldn't create an impression that lasted when the details were fresh, I certainly can't now. But ... I did find the sentence in the article of total anarchy and excessive criminality to be inconsistent with what I recall hearing from friends in the Seattle area, and I do have many. It wasn't a free love hippy fest, but it also wasn't total anarchy. A mix of festival and random aggression, really, is how I remember it being most accurately described. Sometimes society has to let people experiment and get their feelings out of their system, even if it means life will be something less than ideal in a location for a little while. Once people start truly getting hurt, its time for it to end. If I recall, that is what ended CHAZ: a death.

I don't have any personal connections to the Trucker situations so I don't have a grasp on the real story. But severely disrupting the supply chain is a different animal than taking over a small part of a city. I think government should let any protest run its course whenever pragmatically feasible.


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12 Feb 2022, 2:49 am



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12 Feb 2022, 4:06 am

I was quite shocked by this take from the NYT editorial board, it feels like someone at that paper has finally managed to locate their testicles:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/10/opin ... tests.html

Quote:
By the standards of mass protests around the world, the “Freedom Convoy” snarling Downtown Ottawa ranks as a nuisance. The number of protesters, about 8,000 at their peak, is modest; there have been no serious injuries or altercations, the truckers stopped blaring their horns after residents got a temporary court injunction against them, and most Canadians support neither the truckers nor their cause. Yet what’s happening in Canada deserves close attention in the United States and across the world.

In an increasingly polarized political environment, the Canadian truckers became an instant cause célèbre. Donations poured in, prompting GoFundMe to pull the plug on the campaign after a few days under a policy that “prohibits the promotion of violence and harassment,” a void that was quickly filled by right-wing crowdfunding platforms. Copycat convoys have appeared as far afield as Australia and New Zealand.

Inevitably, a chorus of cheers arose from south of the border, led by Donald Trump’s declaration that “the Freedom Convoy is peacefully protesting the harsh policies of far-left lunatic Justin Trudeau who has destroyed Canada with insane Covid mandates,” referring to the prime minister. Senator Ted Cruz called the Canadian truckers “heroes”; Elon Musk tweeted, “Canadian truckers rule”; Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene suggested that the “corporate Communists” at GoFundMe should be arrested.

The raucous images from Canada, a country widely regarded as a model of calm, tolerance and reason, demonstrate the worrisome degree to which Covid-19 mandates and other regulations have become a potent, and perhaps lasting symbol, for the far right of what they see as governmental assaults on their “freedoms.” The Canadian truckers initially launched their convoy in late January to protest the requirement that those crossing the Canadian-U.S. border must be vaccinated to avoid a 14-day quarantine. That in itself was a minority cause — only about a tenth of cross-border drivers are not vaccinated, according to the Canadian Trucking Alliance, which disavowed the protest. (And 86 percent of Canadians as a whole have received at least one shot.) A survey by the market research firm Leger found that 65 percent of Canadians believe the Freedom Convoy represents only a “small minority of selfish Canadians.”

As the big rigs brought traffic to a crawl in the Canadian capital and began blaring their horns, Canadians who do not share their grievances began to call for an end to the protests. The Ottawa police chief called it a “siege,” the Ontario premier said it was an “occupation,” the Ottawa mayor declared a state of emergency, and on Monday, Mr. Trudeau angrily told Parliament that the protests have to stop. He stopped well short of authorizing the use of military force against them but went as far as to say the protesters are “trying to blockade our economy, our democracy and our fellow citizens’ daily lives.”

We disagree with the protesters’ cause, but they have a right to be noisy and even disruptive. Protests are a necessary form of expression in a democratic society, particularly for those whose opinions do not command broad popular support. Governments have a responsibility to prevent violence by protesters, but they must be willing to accept some degree of disruption by those seeking to be heard. The challenge for public officials — the same one faced by Minneapolis and other cities in 2020 during the protests after the murder of George Floyd — is to maintain a balance between public health and safety and a functioning society, with the right to free expression. Entertaining the use of force to disperse or contain legal protests is wrong. As Mr. Trudeau said in November 2020, in expressing his support of a yearlong protest by farmers in India that blocked major highways to New Delhi, “Canada will always be there to defend the right of peaceful protest.”

The convoy has captured an underlying frustration in a broad swath of the Canadian public. Like the “gilets jaunes” (yellow vests) movement in France that clogged the streets of Paris and other cities for months in late 2018 and early 2019, the Canadian truckers are motivated by anger over a wide variety of grievances that cannot be easily resolved through negotiations. Their power lies in their ability to disrupt through social media, using images of a few thousand people immobilizing a national capital and hampering international trade to mobilize global support.

The gilets jaunes, however, never found a cause with wide appeal. The Canadian truckers have, and their success in turning coronavirus restrictions into a rallying cry for the disaffected is what makes the Ottawa protest significant. In France, a convoy of dozens of trucks and other vehicles, inspired by the Ottawa protests, headed to Paris from southern France on Wednesday, prompting the police to announce a ban on such protests as a risk to public order. A U.S. group calling itself “Convoy to D.C. 2022” has announced an American version of the protest for next month, though Meta quickly removed the group’s page from Facebook for violating its policies on spreading vaccine misinformation.

These nascent efforts pose a challenge for Mr. Trudeau, President Biden and every other leader searching for ways to restore a degree of normalcy while maintaining defenses against a disease that still has the power to fill hospitals and kill in large numbers. Effective leadership in this stage of the pandemic means finding ways to confront the understandable frustrations and legitimate protests engendered by the pandemic without stoking more strife, compromising the rule of law or succumbing to unreasonable demands. With populists like Mr. Trump primed to attack any Covid-19 action by the government as an assault on “freedom,” safely exiting the pandemic will be that much more treacherous. Allowing nonviolent, even if disruptive, protest is an important tool for maintaining social cohesion in a polarized society.


Quoted in full due to the paywall.


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12 Feb 2022, 4:55 am

Dox47 wrote:
I was quite shocked by this take from the NYT editorial board, it feels like someone at that paper has finally managed to locate their testicles:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/10/opin ... tests.html

Quote:
By the standards of mass protests around the world, the “Freedom Convoy” snarling Downtown Ottawa ranks as a nuisance. The number of protesters, about 8,000 at their peak, is modest; there have been no serious injuries or altercations, the truckers stopped blaring their horns after residents got a temporary court injunction against them, and most Canadians support neither the truckers nor their cause. Yet what’s happening in Canada deserves close attention in the United States and across the world.

In an increasingly polarized political environment, the Canadian truckers became an instant cause célèbre. Donations poured in, prompting GoFundMe to pull the plug on the campaign after a few days under a policy that “prohibits the promotion of violence and harassment,” a void that was quickly filled by right-wing crowdfunding platforms. Copycat convoys have appeared as far afield as Australia and New Zealand.

Inevitably, a chorus of cheers arose from south of the border, led by Donald Trump’s declaration that “the Freedom Convoy is peacefully protesting the harsh policies of far-left lunatic Justin Trudeau who has destroyed Canada with insane Covid mandates,” referring to the prime minister. Senator Ted Cruz called the Canadian truckers “heroes”; Elon Musk tweeted, “Canadian truckers rule”; Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene suggested that the “corporate Communists” at GoFundMe should be arrested.

The raucous images from Canada, a country widely regarded as a model of calm, tolerance and reason, demonstrate the worrisome degree to which Covid-19 mandates and other regulations have become a potent, and perhaps lasting symbol, for the far right of what they see as governmental assaults on their “freedoms.” The Canadian truckers initially launched their convoy in late January to protest the requirement that those crossing the Canadian-U.S. border must be vaccinated to avoid a 14-day quarantine. That in itself was a minority cause — only about a tenth of cross-border drivers are not vaccinated, according to the Canadian Trucking Alliance, which disavowed the protest. (And 86 percent of Canadians as a whole have received at least one shot.) A survey by the market research firm Leger found that 65 percent of Canadians believe the Freedom Convoy represents only a “small minority of selfish Canadians.”

As the big rigs brought traffic to a crawl in the Canadian capital and began blaring their horns, Canadians who do not share their grievances began to call for an end to the protests. The Ottawa police chief called it a “siege,” the Ontario premier said it was an “occupation,” the Ottawa mayor declared a state of emergency, and on Monday, Mr. Trudeau angrily told Parliament that the protests have to stop. He stopped well short of authorizing the use of military force against them but went as far as to say the protesters are “trying to blockade our economy, our democracy and our fellow citizens’ daily lives.”

We disagree with the protesters’ cause, but they have a right to be noisy and even disruptive. Protests are a necessary form of expression in a democratic society, particularly for those whose opinions do not command broad popular support. Governments have a responsibility to prevent violence by protesters, but they must be willing to accept some degree of disruption by those seeking to be heard. The challenge for public officials — the same one faced by Minneapolis and other cities in 2020 during the protests after the murder of George Floyd — is to maintain a balance between public health and safety and a functioning society, with the right to free expression. Entertaining the use of force to disperse or contain legal protests is wrong. As Mr. Trudeau said in November 2020, in expressing his support of a yearlong protest by farmers in India that blocked major highways to New Delhi, “Canada will always be there to defend the right of peaceful protest.”

The convoy has captured an underlying frustration in a broad swath of the Canadian public. Like the “gilets jaunes” (yellow vests) movement in France that clogged the streets of Paris and other cities for months in late 2018 and early 2019, the Canadian truckers are motivated by anger over a wide variety of grievances that cannot be easily resolved through negotiations. Their power lies in their ability to disrupt through social media, using images of a few thousand people immobilizing a national capital and hampering international trade to mobilize global support.

The gilets jaunes, however, never found a cause with wide appeal. The Canadian truckers have, and their success in turning coronavirus restrictions into a rallying cry for the disaffected is what makes the Ottawa protest significant. In France, a convoy of dozens of trucks and other vehicles, inspired by the Ottawa protests, headed to Paris from southern France on Wednesday, prompting the police to announce a ban on such protests as a risk to public order. A U.S. group calling itself “Convoy to D.C. 2022” has announced an American version of the protest for next month, though Meta quickly removed the group’s page from Facebook for violating its policies on spreading vaccine misinformation.

These nascent efforts pose a challenge for Mr. Trudeau, President Biden and every other leader searching for ways to restore a degree of normalcy while maintaining defenses against a disease that still has the power to fill hospitals and kill in large numbers. Effective leadership in this stage of the pandemic means finding ways to confront the understandable frustrations and legitimate protests engendered by the pandemic without stoking more strife, compromising the rule of law or succumbing to unreasonable demands. With populists like Mr. Trump primed to attack any Covid-19 action by the government as an assault on “freedom,” safely exiting the pandemic will be that much more treacherous. Allowing nonviolent, even if disruptive, protest is an important tool for maintaining social cohesion in a polarized society.


Quoted in full due to the paywall.



Am not seeing these governmental errors as a means to restore social cohesion but using flowery words to maintain beuracratic controls ,even nazi like control over their populations. This merely the tip of the iceberg of government overstepping their bounds over the rights of the populations they control. The corporate gov.s need that control to be able to have a say Over what rights a person has over their own body………imho


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Brictoria
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12 Feb 2022, 6:00 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
MaxE wrote:
^^^ Sorry you're not luring me down that rabbit hole. Maybe Mom wants a go.


Me? Not really; best to avoid re-debating ancient history since my memory fades. If I couldn't create an impression that lasted when the details were fresh, I certainly can't now. But ... I did find the sentence in the article of total anarchy and excessive criminality to be inconsistent with what I recall hearing from friends in the Seattle area, and I do have many. It wasn't a free love hippy fest, but it also wasn't total anarchy. A mix of festival and random aggression, really, is how I remember it being most accurately described. Sometimes society has to let people experiment and get their feelings out of their system, even if it means life will be something less than ideal in a location for a little while. Once people start truly getting hurt, its time for it to end. If I recall, that is what ended CHAZ: a death.

I don't have any personal connections to the Trucker situations so I don't have a grasp on the real story. But severely disrupting the supply chain is a different animal than taking over a small part of a city. I think government should let any protest run its course whenever pragmatically feasible.


Thanks for providing what you remembered of that time.

The request you responded to wasn't a legitimate request though: it was an attempt to back out of a request that MaxE substantiate a claim he made about an article which was posted here, where his claims about it were placed 8 minutes after the article excerpt and link were posted.

I think it's fairly safe to say that if a person can "identify" flaws\etc. in something so fast (8 minutes, including time to make and submit their post claiming their presence in the article), there's no reason that they couldn't quickly and concisely provide evidence to support their claims, rather than trying to hide behind someone else to avoid having to either explain the specific issues they found in the 8 minutes, or to admit that they lied about their description of the content\intent of the article.

When a person can't answer a specific, focused question about something they claimed to see (and post about - evidence-free) in 8 minutes, instead trying to palm off the explanation to a 3rd party to provide, it's hard to believe their initial claims were honest\truthful, but rather that it was an intentional attempt to misinform anyone who read their post.



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12 Feb 2022, 9:29 am

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12 Feb 2022, 10:40 am

DAE here appreciate the irony implicit in the fact that, although this thread is supposed to be about Canada, it becomes most inactive when it's between the hours of midnight and approximately 07:00 in Australia?


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12 Feb 2022, 12:41 pm

Ambassador Bridge: Police begin clearing Canada trucker blockade

Quote:
Police have started to clear a blockade of the main crossing between Canada and the United States.
After days of protests by truckers against Covid rules at the Ambassador Bridge in Ontario, officers urged them to heed an injunction against the demonstration.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau spoke with US President Joe Biden about the border blockades on Friday.

In the cold light of Saturday morning, police came in to break up the blockade at the Ambassador Bridge.

Arriving in city buses, they created a flank along the north side of the protest, which had blocked several lanes of traffic, preventing people - and millions of dollars of trade - from reaching the US, which is just on the other side of the border.

Wearing balaclavas to protect them from the bitter wind, with some carrying heavy weapons, the officers made it known that the party-protest, which had been going for almost a week, had come to an end.

The protesters were not happy, but neither were they surprised that it was coming to an end. Some thanked the police and expressed their support for law enforcement, while one man cried "You should be ashamed!"

"They're gonna have to move us out. We'll be peaceful and we'll lock arms and show unity," said Dan, a protester who declined to give his last name to the BBC.
"If that's what they need to do, give me a ticket and I'll see you in court."


French COVID protest convoy defies Paris stay-away order
Quote:
A protest convoy breached police defences and drove into central Paris on Saturday, snarling traffic around the Arc de Triomphe and on the Champs Elysees, as police fired tear gas at demonstrators protesting against COVID-19 restrictions.

Protesters in cars, campervans, tractors and other vehicles had converged on Paris from Lille, Perpignan, Nice and other cities late on Friday, despite warnings from Paris authorities that they would be barred from entering the capital.

Inside the city's limits, motorists in the "Freedom Convoy" waved tricolor flags and honked in defiance of the police ban.

On the Champs Elysees, clouds of tear gas swirled through the terraces of bars and restaurants.

Riot police also threw tear gas grenades to keep order at an authorised street protest where demonstrators, including some "Yellow Vests" railed against President Emmanuel Macron's coronavirus vaccine pass rules and the cost of living.

France requires people to show proof of vaccination to enter public places such as cafes, restaurants and museums, with a negative test no longer being sufficient for unvaccinated people.

"We can't take the vaccine pass any more," said Nathalie Galdeano who came from southwest France by bus to participate in the protests.

Police said that they had arrested 14 people, handed out 337 fines by mid-afternoon and earlier stopped 500 vehicles that were trying to get into Paris in the morning.

Less than two months from a presidential election, Macron's government is eager to keep protests from spiralling into large-scale demonstrations like the anti-government Yellow Vest revolt of 2018.

Grievances expressed by protesters in the "Freedom Convoy" extend beyond COVID restrictions, with anger simmering over a perceived fall in standards of living amid surging inflation.

Police had mobilised more than 7,000 officers, set up checkpoints and deployed armoured personnel carriers and water cannon trucks in preparation for the protests.

Separately police also said they had arrested five protesters in southern Paris in possession of sling shots, hammers, knives and gas masks.


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12 Feb 2022, 12:50 pm

They might be sticking them with a ~$10,000,000.00 policing bill:

https://leaderpost.com/news/local-news/ ... lice-bill/


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12 Feb 2022, 1:13 pm

Can they pass a law and then implement it retroactively in Canada? Seems a bit unfair, we raised your tax from the day you were born, here's the bill.



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12 Feb 2022, 2:11 pm

txfz1 wrote:
Can they pass a law and then implement it retroactively in Canada? Seems a bit unfair, we raised your tax from the day you were born, here's the bill.


If you read the article the law already exists, they can simply choose to enforce it vs not.


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12 Feb 2022, 8:25 pm

If it already existed then what did they have to pass or invoke? What was the revision? Why not just enforce the law? Not familiar with Canadian law, that is why I asked the question.



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12 Feb 2022, 8:42 pm

MaxE wrote:
DAE here appreciate the irony implicit in the fact that, although this thread is supposed to be about Canada, it becomes most inactive when it's between the hours of midnight and approximately 07:00 in Australia?

It's not that hard to understand if you put thought into it...

Midnight "Australian time" could be anywhere from 7AM EST (4AM PST) to 11AM EST (or midnight PST), depending on the location in Australia to which the remark is referring to - It's not that difficult to check\confirm (Brisbane is earliest timezone at present, Perth the latest) - https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html

Assuming the timezone with the greatest proportion of the population is being referred to (Sydney\Melbourne in above site), this would equate to 8AM EST - 3PM EST (5AM - Midday PST)... And what are most people doing during that time - preparing themselves\other household members for, travelling to, or occupied with school\work, where there would be limited (if any) time for people to post even were they to want to.

Besides, here's an example of a post made in the "inactive" timezone:
12:30 "Australian time" - https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=403480&p=8975311#p8975311
(As a matter of fact, I believe even your post which I am replying to was also made in that timeframe (2:40 AM)).

The thread would be expected to be quiet during the time you specified, when it would be those who don't work\study who would be expected to be the main\only group posting, and to get more active from around 9AM "Australia time" (5PM EST) - 9PM "Australia time" - 2AM PST, as that would be the time that those who do work or study would be getting home and having the opportunity to spend time on the site before going to bed.

It's not rocket science...

Note: I excluded other regions of the world from this explanation, as the post being replied to only referenced Canada and Australia. I also focussed on the larger 4 (of 6) timezones in Canada, as they align with those in the USA, and cover the majority of Canada's landmass.



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12 Feb 2022, 8:48 pm

Brictoria wrote:
I also focussed on the larger 4 (of 6) timezones in Canada, as they align with those in the USA, and cover the majority of Canada's landmass.

Canada has 5.5 time zones.


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