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Pepe
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16 Mar 2022, 6:11 am

Quote:
European leaders travel to Kyiv as Russian siege of Ukrainian capital continues

BERLIN — Three European leaders traveled Tuesday to the besieged Ukrainian capital to meet with the country’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, and to pledge the European Union’s “unequivocal support” and offer financial assistance.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... ers-visit/


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Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

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Last edited by magz on 16 Mar 2022, 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.: title corrected

magz
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16 Mar 2022, 6:33 am

What does Berlin have to do with it?

They were prime ministers of Poland, Czechia and Slovenia (yes, this time Slovenia not Slovakia).


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Pepe
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16 Mar 2022, 6:43 am

magz wrote:
What does Berlin have to do with it?

They were prime ministers of Poland, Czechia and Slovenia (yes, this time Slovenia not Slovakia).


I have no idea. 8O


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


magz
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16 Mar 2022, 6:53 am

Anyway, yes, this visit has happened.

Some commenter I read pointed out how very Slavic the action was.
Slavs love symbols. We can love symbols more than reason sometimes. Symbols carry meanings that live longer than people. That's why Putin can't give up Ukraine - there's no "Great Russia" without Kiev.
The gesture was to show Ukrainians that we don't leave them on their own - and to show Putin that we don't fear him.
Has the message been read properly? I think the intended audiences got it.


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Pepe
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16 Mar 2022, 7:03 am

There is a lot of bravery in that part of the world.


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Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


magz
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16 Mar 2022, 7:28 am

I'm reading Lithuanian PM is now proposing an international mission to secure humanitarian corridors. You see, we know if Ukraine loses, it would only sharpen the bear's apetite. So, the question is, how to help them more without making it a WWIII.
Humanitarian concerns are relatively uncontroversial.

In this part of the world, we can't be inert. We are already affected, but if Putin gets what he wants using the methods he uses, nothing will stop him (or his successors) from using these methods again and again - next time, on us.


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16 Mar 2022, 12:24 pm

Agreed. Anyone thinking Putin will stop at Ukraine lacks historical perspective.


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16 Mar 2022, 12:29 pm

magz wrote:
What does Berlin have to do with it?

They were prime ministers of Poland, Czechia and Slovenia (yes, this time Slovenia not Slovakia).


That's just the dateline.


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16 Mar 2022, 12:42 pm

“The Russian bear is huge and wild,
it has devoured the sleeping child.
The sleeping child is unaware,
that it’s inside the Russian bear.”


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16 Mar 2022, 12:43 pm

blazingstar wrote:
Agreed. Anyone thinking Putin will stop at Ukraine lacks historical perspective.


He can't go further without an effective force to assign the campaign to and that appears to be an issue.

Russia has a larger percentage of their forces engaged in Ukraine than the US had committed during the peak of the invasion of Iraq; of those forces they're essentially 100% committed. This means whether they like it or not they are likely reaching the culmination of that campaign within the next week or two whether they like it or not.

Of course, that's a fair bit of time for Russia to make gains, but so far it appears their advance has lost momentum. We'll see how things unfold, but I'm anticipating they will fail to capture Odessa, they will fail to capture Kyiv and their forces will start to show more issues as morale plummets.


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magz
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16 Mar 2022, 12:53 pm

The point is, Putin and all his possible successors must learn that this method does not work anymore.
If they capture, say, Azov Sea shores, and it gets de facto accepted, they will try again with another chunk next decade.
It started in Georgia 2008. It doesn't have to end with Putin's death, he can have a "worthy" successor.

Accepting this kind of slow progress is enabling more of it. And more. And more.
Cheap gas often tastes like blood, doesn't it?


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funeralxempire
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16 Mar 2022, 1:33 pm

magz wrote:
The point is, Putin and all his possible successors must learn that this method does not work anymore.
If they capture, say, Azov Sea shores, and it gets de facto accepted, they will try again with another chunk next decade.
It started in Georgia 2008. It doesn't have to end with Putin's death, he can have a "worthy" successor.

Accepting this kind of slow progress is enabling more of it. And more. And more.


Absolutely agree. We can't have some countries acting like it's the 1800s and invading their neighbours because of paranoia or irredentism.

magz wrote:
Cheap gas often tastes like blood, doesn't it?


It's even worse when you start to consider the other commodities that's also true for. Coffee, cocoa, tropical fruits and sugar seem like the easiest examples to think of.


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magz
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16 Mar 2022, 1:38 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
magz wrote:
Cheap gas often tastes like blood, doesn't it?
It's even worse when you start to consider the other commodities that's also true for. Coffee, cocoa, tropical fruits and sugar seem like the easiest examples to think of.
With sugar, I'm fine - white sugar in Poland is produced locally, from sugar beets.
With the rest - I wonder how much a "fair trade" mark is really worth.


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16 Mar 2022, 1:39 pm

magz wrote:
. . . I wonder how much a "fair trade" mark is really worth.
About as much as the "Organic" label is worth.



Pepe
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16 Mar 2022, 5:38 pm

magz wrote:
I'm reading Lithuanian PM is now proposing an international mission to secure humanitarian corridors. You see, we know if Ukraine loses, it would only sharpen the bear's apetite. So, the question is, how to help them more without making it a WWIII.
Humanitarian concerns are relatively uncontroversial.

In this part of the world, we can't be inert. We are already affected, but if Putin gets what he wants using the methods he uses, nothing will stop him (or his successors) from using these methods again and again - next time, on us.


I understand your concerns.
I understand the concerns of the Baltic States, also.
But I still think, after this profoundly humiliating experience of the Ukraine misadventure, he will have no appetite for further empire-building for the foreseeable future.
I think he will be lucky to politically survive this fiasco.

I am not suggesting in the least that NATO should let its guard down.
I understand the importance of supporting Ukraine.
Bullies only respect strength, after all. ;)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


Pepe
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16 Mar 2022, 5:53 pm

blazingstar wrote:
Agreed. Anyone thinking Putin will stop at Ukraine lacks historical perspective.


pootin's military machine is hurting, bad:
*He has lost at least 12 generals through being killed in battle or through forced resignation.
*He is begging his historic enemy, China, for military and economic help.
*The corruption in the Russian military complex has produced an ineffective fighting machine.
*His best troops have been committed to this war and yet it has been a failure, whatever the final outcome.
*Its officers haven't been paid for months.
*Its conscripts are abandoning vehicles.
*Morale is extremely low.
*Sanction have eaten into his ability to finance his war.
*It will take him decades to rebuild his forces.

Even if pootin was truly insane, he doesn't have the means to regain his imagined Greater Empire.
Unless Russia itself is attacked, the nuclear option is off the table, imo.
At the end of the war, Hitler was pushing "ghost" divisions around the map.
How did that work out? ;)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.