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Pepe
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02 Mar 2022, 4:37 pm

Quote:
China is Ukraine’s only hope to ‘stop Putin’ from progressing destructive invasion amid widespread bombing

Peter Dutton has warned that only China can stand in the way of Vladimir Putin now as Russian forces continue their grisly invasion of Ukraine.


https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/c ... rallPos=13

Don't hold your breath. 8)


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And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

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txfz1
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02 Mar 2022, 4:49 pm

Putin and Xi met at the beginning of the games, doubt if China is going to say or do anything.



Pepe
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02 Mar 2022, 5:41 pm

txfz1 wrote:
Putin and Xi met at the beginning of the games, doubt if China is going to say or do anything.


Well, xi intends to annex Taiwan.
pootin annexing Ukraine is in xi's interest.


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


funeralxempire
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02 Mar 2022, 5:48 pm

Xi has opposed earlier annexations by Putin because weakening the idea that nations are entitled to not face interference within their own borders weakens his cause in regards to Taiwan.

Ukraine is universally recognized as independent. Taiwan technically isn't (even if it should be). Russia is using aggression against an independent state, China would prefer for conflict with Taiwan to be viewed as an internal issue.

China will most likely try to play both sides and avoid outraging anyone as best as they can, while taking notes. Anything they can use against the west in pursuit of their goals later on will be used.


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Pepe
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02 Mar 2022, 6:01 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Xi has opposed earlier annexations by Putin because weakening the idea that nations are entitled to not face interference within their own borders weakens his cause in regards to Taiwan.

Ukraine is universally recognized as independent. Taiwan technically isn't (even if it should be). Russia is using aggression against an independent state, China would prefer for conflict with Taiwan to be viewed as an internal issue.

China will most likely try to play both sides and avoid outraging anyone as best as they can, while taking notes. Anything they can use against the west in pursuit of their goals later on will be used.


I beg your pardon. 8O


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


funeralxempire
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02 Mar 2022, 6:15 pm

Pepe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Xi has opposed earlier annexations by Putin because weakening the idea that nations are entitled to not face interference within their own borders weakens his cause in regards to Taiwan.

Ukraine is universally recognized as independent. Taiwan technically isn't (even if it should be). Russia is using aggression against an independent state, China would prefer for conflict with Taiwan to be viewed as an internal issue.

China will most likely try to play both sides and avoid outraging anyone as best as they can, while taking notes. Anything they can use against the west in pursuit of their goals later on will be used.


I beg your pardon. 8O


Are you struggling with facts?


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Pepe
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02 Mar 2022, 6:20 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Pepe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Xi has opposed earlier annexations by Putin because weakening the idea that nations are entitled to not face interference within their own borders weakens his cause in regards to Taiwan.

Ukraine is universally recognized as independent. Taiwan technically isn't (even if it should be). Russia is using aggression against an independent state, China would prefer for conflict with Taiwan to be viewed as an internal issue.

China will most likely try to play both sides and avoid outraging anyone as best as they can, while taking notes. Anything they can use against the west in pursuit of their goals later on will be used.


I beg your pardon. 8O


Are you struggling with facts?


I am struggling with your *alternative* facts, yes. 8O


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


funeralxempire
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02 Mar 2022, 6:27 pm

Pepe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Pepe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Xi has opposed earlier annexations by Putin because weakening the idea that nations are entitled to not face interference within their own borders weakens his cause in regards to Taiwan.

Ukraine is universally recognized as independent. Taiwan technically isn't (even if it should be). Russia is using aggression against an independent state, China would prefer for conflict with Taiwan to be viewed as an internal issue.

China will most likely try to play both sides and avoid outraging anyone as best as they can, while taking notes. Anything they can use against the west in pursuit of their goals later on will be used.


I beg your pardon. 8O


Are you struggling with facts?


I am struggling with your *alternative* facts, yes. 8O


What alternative fact? RoC hasn't declared independence and continues to claim to be the legit Chinese government. PRC is currently recognized as the legit Chinese government. Both governments lay claim to the entire mainland and Taiwan. This is why Taiwan competes in the Olympics as Chinese Taipai and lacks global recognition.

Facts you don't like are still facts Pepe.

While I would like for Taiwan to receive international recognition as an independent nation it hasn't happened yet. Burying your head wherever it is you stick it when the facts aren't aligned with your feelings won't change that.


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shlaifu
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02 Mar 2022, 8:49 pm

I don't think China is looking at Russia and the West's reaction to extrapolate. ... mainly because I can't take any lesson that would apply from it.
Taiwan is, unlike Ukraine, of economic importance. But it's also very far away. There's no acute fear of China annexing anything else of importance afterwards, and there's no possible solution of Taiwan declaring itself neutral or anything like that.
China already has an alternative banking communication system in place, but severe sanctions will still hit it.
And the West will be reluctant to act - independent of whether there will be any military action against Russia or not.

that said: yeah, maybe sanctions against anyone not yet sanctioning Russia could do the trick. Maybe China isn't ready to take the hit in exports over Ukraine. Then Xi might have a word with Putin.
But I'm much more inclined to think they'll work together and allow each other some territorial expansion until they have become a de facto equal to the US.... turns out, authoritarian capitalism just could become a rival to liberal capitalism.


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Pepe
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03 Mar 2022, 12:42 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Pepe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Pepe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Xi has opposed earlier annexations by Putin because weakening the idea that nations are entitled to not face interference within their own borders weakens his cause in regards to Taiwan.

Ukraine is universally recognized as independent. Taiwan technically isn't (even if it should be). Russia is using aggression against an independent state, China would prefer for conflict with Taiwan to be viewed as an internal issue.

China will most likely try to play both sides and avoid outraging anyone as best as they can, while taking notes. Anything they can use against the west in pursuit of their goals later on will be used.


I beg your pardon. 8O


Are you struggling with facts?


I am struggling with your *alternative* facts, yes. 8O


What alternative fact? RoC hasn't declared independence and continues to claim to be the legit Chinese government. PRC is currently recognized as the legit Chinese government. Both governments lay claim to the entire mainland and Taiwan. This is why Taiwan competes in the Olympics as Chinese Taipai and lacks global recognition.

Facts you don't like are still facts Pepe.

While I would like for Taiwan to receive international recognition as an independent nation it hasn't happened yet. Burying your head wherever it is you stick it when the facts aren't aligned with your feelings won't change that.


FXE:1
Pepe: 1,000,000. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


Pepe
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03 Mar 2022, 12:48 am

shlaifu wrote:
I don't think China is looking at Russia and the West's reaction to extrapolate. ... mainly because I can't take any lesson that would apply from it.
Taiwan is, unlike Ukraine, of economic importance. But it's also very far away. There's no acute fear of China annexing anything else of importance afterwards, and there's no possible solution of Taiwan declaring itself neutral or anything like that.
China already has an alternative banking communication system in place, but severe sanctions will still hit it.
And the West will be reluctant to act - independent of whether there will be any military action against Russia or not.

that said: yeah, maybe sanctions against anyone not yet sanctioning Russia could do the trick. Maybe China isn't ready to take the hit in exports over Ukraine. Then Xi might have a word with Putin.
But I'm much more inclined to think they'll work together and allow each other some territorial expansion until they have become a de facto equal to the US.... turns out, authoritarian capitalism just could become a rival to liberal capitalism.


BTW,
I heard a report that China would support Russia if Russia was attacked.
A rather empty threat in my book because there is no talk about invading Russian territory.
pootin is the aggressor, not the west.

There is no question in my mind that the "axis of evil" is working together. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


r00tb33r
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03 Mar 2022, 6:00 am

They should be wary of counterfeit hope.


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funeralxempire
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03 Mar 2022, 9:55 am

Pepe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Pepe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Pepe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Xi has opposed earlier annexations by Putin because weakening the idea that nations are entitled to not face interference within their own borders weakens his cause in regards to Taiwan.

Ukraine is universally recognized as independent. Taiwan technically isn't (even if it should be). Russia is using aggression against an independent state, China would prefer for conflict with Taiwan to be viewed as an internal issue.

China will most likely try to play both sides and avoid outraging anyone as best as they can, while taking notes. Anything they can use against the west in pursuit of their goals later on will be used.


I beg your pardon. 8O


Are you struggling with facts?


I am struggling with your *alternative* facts, yes. 8O


What alternative fact? RoC hasn't declared independence and continues to claim to be the legit Chinese government. PRC is currently recognized as the legit Chinese government. Both governments lay claim to the entire mainland and Taiwan. This is why Taiwan competes in the Olympics as Chinese Taipai and lacks global recognition.

Facts you don't like are still facts Pepe.

While I would like for Taiwan to receive international recognition as an independent nation it hasn't happened yet. Burying your head wherever it is you stick it when the facts aren't aligned with your feelings won't change that.


FXE:1
Pepe: 1,000,000. 8)


Yes, that is the first time you've conceded being wrong out of the many, many times it's occurred. Narcissism will do that. :wink:


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22 Apr 2022, 8:44 am

Interestingly, time has proved both claims in this thread about China-Russian relations are correct.

China's official statement in the strict sense has been emphasizing its opposition to Russia's war behavior and expecting peace talks between the two sides. Because Beijing wants to avoid the international community linking Ukraine-Russia relations with China-Taiwan relations. Because Taiwan is not yet independent procedurally, but has begun to become independent operationally, Beijing wants to use the former fact.

Although the Chinese official in the strict sense does not declare support for the Russian military action. And the news network (the official core media)reported on the plight of Ukrainian civilians. But in late February and early March, pro-CCP media and some official tabloids did a lot of pro-Russian and anti-Ukrainian propaganda, and attributed the actual instigator of the war to the US.

For now, this pro-Russian internal propaganda has all but died down. Chinese public opinion began to tilt against Ukrainian.
But on the other hand, after the defeat in the Russian war, the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs announced that it would strengthen cooperation with Russia.
March 30.

Quote:
Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin said in response that there is no upper limit to Sino-Russian cooperation. As permanent members of the UN Security Council, China and Russia have always adhered to the principle of non-alignment, non-confrontation and non-targeting of third countries to develop bilateral relations. The two sides will continue to practice genuine multilateralism and are committed to promoting world multi-polarization and democratization of international relations.



I think this means that while Moscow's military action is an annoyance for Beijing, Beijing doesn't want Russia to be completely rout because of it. So Beijing will provide some support.
This is closer to a delicate alliance formed to deal with a common enemy.


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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22 Apr 2022, 11:22 am

SkinnedWolf wrote:
Interestingly, time has proved both claims in this thread about China-Russian relations are correct. ...
I think this means that while Moscow's military action is an annoyance for Beijing, Beijing doesn't want Russia to be completely rout because of it. So Beijing will provide some support.
This is closer to a delicate alliance formed to deal with a common enemy.


So I guess it could be said that China is trying to figure out how to navigate this situation and somehow find and then end up with what is best for China in the overall picture; as in, "We want what is best for us, but first we have to sort out and define what exactly is the best for us in this thing."

Which is to be expected of any government.


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22 Apr 2022, 12:01 pm

^Yes.
Russia is an unreliable ally to China - given what Tsarist Russia and the Soviet Union have done to China in the past, and Putin himself seems to have a better liking for the West.

But both have a bigger common enemy.
And I think, if Beijing indulges Russia to die, the puppet regime that rises from its corpse is likely to deliver a fatal blow to China. Perhaps Beijing will take a similar view.
Beijing is trying to find ways to achieve its goals in ways that do not offend other forces.


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