Leaked draft re: Roe v Wade

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Sweetleaf
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03 May 2022, 8:37 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:

Now does everybody understand why I'm trying to move to Seattle?!?!?!

I guarantee WA, CA, and NY aren't passing 6-week bounty hunter abortion bans.

Colorado isn't either, right to abortion is guaranteed under state law. So I'll just stay here. Seriously though this is horrible, sure I lucked out and am already in a state that protects abortion rights but I am certainly concerned about women who aren't so lucky.

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Matrix Glitch
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04 May 2022, 1:37 am

Fnord wrote:

Matrix Glitch wrote:

I know of quite a lot of conservative females who are against abortion too. So the question is, is the conservative agenda worse or better than the liberal agenda?

That depends on whether you are more interested in the right to own slaves or the right to have an abortion.

Interesting. I was unaware that the 21st century conservative agenda is slave ownership. Can you cite evidence of that please? Note: I'm asking for evidence of that being majority agenda, not what random cherry picked kooks have in mind.

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04 May 2022, 6:48 am

I'd long past ever needing an abortion, thank god.

But we worked so hard for the right to privacy. The right to control what happens inside our own bodies. The right to have health care decisions made between patient and doctor without interference from the state. Back in the 60s and 70s.

I never thought it would return.

I find it ironic that the right wants to keep government out of people's lives everywhere except in the bedroom, for that is what this actually is. Eve must be punished for eating that apple.

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Matrix Glitch
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04 May 2022, 8:12 am

While I understand all of the arguments in favor of abortion, but it's hard for a lot of society to get past the fact that it always results in ending someone's life.

Sweetleaf
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04 May 2022, 8:42 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:

While I understand all of the arguments in favor of abortion, but it's hard for a lot of society to get past the fact that it always results in ending someone's life.

I think most of society can handle it

Also I think my right to not have to risk death or potential health problems if I get pregnant is important . I realize pregnancy doesn't always result in death or long term health conditions but it can and its not a risk women should be forced to take against their will.

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Matrix Glitch
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04 May 2022, 10:31 am

Sweetleaf wrote:

Matrix Glitch wrote:

While I understand all of the arguments in favor of abortion, but it's hard for a lot of society to get past the fact that it always results in ending someone's life.

I'm not arguing with any of that. But still in every instance an abortion results in someone being put to death.

aghogday
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04 May 2022, 12:00 pm

Yawn, Life is All Organic, Messy, and Colorful or Not;

CR8P Happens and True Fertilizer Happens too and

Makes Lovely Roses Grow in SH8T ThiS Way Too...

Some Domesticated Animals Only LiVE As We take care of Them

Long Enough to Slay And Eat

Them As We've Been Doing this

For Thousands of Years With Not
too Many Second Thoughts and True
i Have Very Large Canines As i Was Literally

'Cut'-Out of 'Eye Teeth' to Eat Meat ThiS Way; Yes,
True the Dentist Says i Have the Second Biggest

Teeth on
the Chart...

i Can Prove it Easy
Hehe; Yet That's in
Another Thread, No Need
to Make This Story That Deep;

Life Ain't Black and White Dude As Much as Folks

Would Love to Decrease The Complexity of Heaven And HeLL ON
Earth to What Happens After Death With No Responsibility Now for

That Ideology
At All Either;

Guess What, Abortion is Nothing
New Among Us And the Rest of the
Animal Kingdom Too As True It Has Been

Often that the Unborn Child is Sacrificed So the
Sanctity of Those Currently Breathing With Restricted
Resources Will Continue to Breathe; My God That's A Horrible
Decision to Have to make; Yet Tough Times Make Tough Decisions Real...

True, We Can And Will Choose to LiVE iN Ideologies Rather than Nature's Realities....

Yet Again Studies Have Already Been Done that Show in the World As Whole, When

Abortion Becomes Illegal It Still Happens in Non-Medically Approved Unsafe Ways That only

Lead to More Harm, Maiming, Permanent Disability, And Death Among All Concerned; Yes, Including

Women
Now Once

Relegated Then And
Still in Some Places Now

Used As Only Domesticated

Animals to Breed Children For Men;

Some Folks Would Love to Go Back
to A Theocratic Rule that Way; And True

THeir God's Laws of Ignorance are slowly coming Back for Real too Here...

Yet 'They' Won't Fool Mother Nature And Even More People Will Suffer and

Die As A Result

of Trying

to Fool
the 'Real
God Mother Nature'

That and Who Gets the Final Reality Then Or Now...

Dude, Every Birth Results in A Death; Duh, And Humans
Are the Only Ones Who Hoard Their Dead in Containers
Avoiding Adding to the
Continuing

Circle

of Breath All
Naturally As the
Rest of Nature Does

That Doesn't LiVE iN
Abstract Constructs of
Fools Out of Balance With Nature...

Humans LiVE oN EartH And As Studies
Show Humans Are Endangering 1 in 8 Living Animal
And Plant Species From Not Only Dying Yet Going Extinct

In the Coming Decades

Please Cry
me A Moral
River for What

Is Already A Zombie
Species Destroying THeir Only
Place of Nature As Home Now in
Balance Indeed Eating THeir Own Face Of Nature Slower or Faster As They Go...

If THere is A 'Trademark God With a Sense of Justice' as i Doubt Life is Fair THAT Way;
Humans Are Surely Last on Santa Claus's List Now for Who Has Been Naughty or Nice...

Anyway It's Another Disgusting Human Era For "Incel Rapists" And "Incestual Big Daddys" To Surely
Celebrate Still Coming

For Them...

Yet Don't Forget

THere is No Escaping

Nature For Every Birth THere is
Death and All We Really Leave
Behind is the Love We 'Give' Or Nothing of the Love We 'Took'...

Other than That After Losing a Child Watching that Child Suffer
for 51 Days with Only Pain and Misery; We Also Extend the Misery

of Those to Own
As Well
Rather

Than Free
Allowing them
A Greater Blessing of Nature
That Surely in Many Cases is Death...

Yeah, When Ya Experience Pain and
Misery Beyond Any Measure of the Reality of Death,

At Best it Brings Empathy and Compassion For Others
Who Suffer And Are Tortured ThiS Way in Life; THere are

Many Ways to Die, Both Breathing and Not; THere Are Many

Ways That Some

Folks Will Find

Before They Take
Their Last Breath and

Then Perhaps Finally Become
Human Enough to Understand

Life is Messy, Really Damn Messy
And Worth Empathy and Compassion
for Others Not As Fortunate Breathing Now...

i'm Always Amazed How Some Dudes, Even Priests And Pastors
Only Show Empathy And Compassion When it Comes to the Unborn...

Obviously,

Just Another
'Political Ruse"

With Crocodile Tears...

As A Priest Lauded Florida
For Allowing Folks to Suffer and
Die in A Peak of A Deadly Pandemic

Unmasked Without Social Distancing

Left with the Most Vulnerable Older Folks in Danger
Trusting the Fool who Ran an Entire Diocese of Ignorance...

Is it Any Surprise
This Same Ideology
of Ignorance is In

Charge of this Coming
Human Misery and Suffering

No, Not Really, Just Another
Self-Fulfilling Old Testament
Stale And Ignorant Prophecy Come to Be Again...

As The Trump Meme LiveS oN And The "JeSuS" of 'the
Marginalized' Still
Breathing is

Just

Plain Ole
Dead As That/
This Is What Happens
When A Newer Improved Story Becomes Lost

And Is Replaced By Another Older Still Rotting Story of Course...

Yawn, The Good News is Only The Minority of 30 Percent of U.S. Citizens
Go Along With This Non-Sense; if The 70 Percent Finally Wakes Up

A Newer
Story Now

Will Begin And Thrive
Again; Yes, Meanwhile
'Eve', Pass the Popcorn;

We've BeCome ACCustoMeD Over Here in

REAL EDEN For Many Years Now Accepting
What We Reasonably Cannot Change;

And Just Watching
The Human Circus
Continue to Unfold

As Honestly it Makes
Great DarK And LiGHT
Muse for An Even Greater Story Still to come...

And So the Circle of Life GoeS on As Death Makes Life...

Night Makes
Day Dark
Makes Light

A Jazz Song
of Reality Just
Never Ending

Always Changing
Dancing New Now For Real..

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funeralxempire
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04 May 2022, 2:41 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

Matrix Glitch wrote:

While I understand all of the arguments in favor of abortion, but it's hard for a lot of society to get past the fact that it always results in ending someone's life.

I'm not arguing with any of that. But still in every instance an abortion results in someone being put to death.

I think it's an exaggeration to insist a fetus is someone. They're someone like an acorn is an oak tree. They possess the potential to become someone should their development not be interfered with.

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kraftiekortie
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04 May 2022, 2:53 pm

I'm a "pro-choice" person myself.

But, to me, a fetus of two months' gestation or more seems to me to be "living."

Sweetleaf
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04 May 2022, 4:13 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

I'm a "pro-choice" person myself.

But, to me, a fetus of two months' gestation or more seems to me to be "living."

Of course it is living and even human since its made out of human dna, but it's still just a potential person.

Bacteria are alive to.

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Tim_Tex
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04 May 2022, 4:24 pm

AnonymousAnonymous wrote:

Tim_Tex wrote:

Now does everybody understand why I'm trying to move to Seattle?!?!?!

Yes, but don't move to Portland.

What's wrong with Portland?

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DW_a_mom
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04 May 2022, 7:07 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:

While I understand all of the arguments in favor of abortion, but it's hard for a lot of society to get past the fact that it always results in ending someone's life.

Here is the problem:

It doesn't always.

Removing a late term dead fetus isn't technically an abortion but seems to often get recorded as one.

Terminating a non-viable fetus is an abortion despite the fact the fetus would not be able to live if born.

The absolutely ridiculous thing, to me, is that NO DATA separates live and viable v non-viable. It's all just "abortion." This reality frustrates me to no end, and provides the single largest piece of evidence that this entire debate is political, and not medical.

Abortion should be a medical decision ONLY, IMHO. Pull everything else out of it.

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04 May 2022, 7:17 pm

Fnord wrote:

This is another instance of old, conservative men deciding what women can and cannot do with their bodies. Sure, there are women on the Supreme Court; but I have to wonder if any were intimidated into going along with the men's decision.

I have zero doubt that Amy Coning Barrett is a true believer.

Many women with children are. It is difficult, after all, to not see a fetus as a life after you've lovingly carried one to term.

But most women ALSO are well aware of the complicated and difficult decisions other women have been forced to make that end up recorded as "abortions." Women like Amy Coning Barrett justify brushing aside those needs as not being common enough to override concern over the lives saved. Or maybe she's never been party to any of those conversations at all, since once other women know her position she won't exactly be on their confidence list.

A lot of tragic and unfair things happen when abortion is illegal.

The funny thing is that I am pretty strongly pro-law, but as a medical matter, not a legal one. The law has no place in something so nuanced and complicated, and I am firm in that opinion. We don't NEED the law to reduce abortions, a fact that countries like the Netherlands are proving. We can save babies AND stay out of medical decisions. That fact that we aren't willing to take that route as a nation speaks volumes as to how purely political this all is; it isn't about saving babies.

We are on a dark path as a nation. So very unfortunate.

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Matrix Glitch
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05 May 2022, 1:55 am

funeralxempire wrote:

Matrix Glitch wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

Matrix Glitch wrote:

While I understand all of the arguments in favor of abortion, but it's hard for a lot of society to get past the fact that it always results in ending someone's life.

I'm not arguing with any of that. But still in every instance an abortion results in someone being put to death.

I think it's an exaggeration to insist a fetus is someone. They're someone like an acorn is an oak tree. They possess the potential to become someone should their development not be interfered with.

An acorn that's begun to sprout is a tree. You can call it a sapling, but it's a tree in its beginning stages. And I'm pretty sure if some mugger stabs a pregnant woman and kills the baby inside he can be charged with murder. Now I'm not trying to do a pro-life number. I'm just being realistic about it. It's the reality aspect of abortion that many people don't want to accept. But it exists nonetheless.

Matrix Glitch
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05 May 2022, 2:21 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

Matrix Glitch wrote:

While I understand all of the arguments in favor of abortion, but it's hard for a lot of society to get past the fact that it always results in ending someone's life.

Good point, I stand corrected. But I think still in the majority of cases it results in sniffing out someone's life. One could say it's the life of a potential person, but that could be said of a newborn as well. Many times the gender of a baby is determined and the baby is named while still in the womb. The first time I saw my god-daughter's face, she was quite a ways from being born. I saw her hand moving and her fingers wiggling. She already had a name and a room and toys.

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05 May 2022, 2:46 am

from what i've read, those religious hypocrites won't stop at roe. next is anything to do with LGBTQ rights, then Griswold vs. Connecticut, even the 14th and 15th amendments are in danger. these folks don't wanna just take us back to the 50s or even the 1890s [last gilded age] but back to what is being called "the new feudalism."

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