New Children's book causes Quite a Stir

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Yes, my aunt did correct her. It was probably the first time she had ever seen a non-white child.
It just proves that everyone is born ignorant until they learn (I don't mean ignorant in a bad context, I just mean unknowledeable about things). Social skills need to be learnt even for NTs.

It's no big deal. I've heard about black people in remote African villages encountering a white person for the first time and thinking they were a ghost. People of other races are obviously going to look unusual to someone who's never seen one before.

The author pictured is Jessica Ralli, and she's Jewish. Jews don't consider themselves white. See the following...





By the way cyberdad, since you obviously think a person's ethnic/racial background is relevant to their opinions on this subject, and since you post on this subject so often, I would be interested to know what your own ethnic/racial background is. Care to share?

I can go first and disclose that I am white, ethnically Irish (and I live in the UK). Perhaps that might have something to do with why complaints about "white privilege" fail to move me, but I like to think I'd feel the same way even if I were an Anglo-American.

@Slamthunderbird

A few things

1. I am presenting a perspective of a bestselling children's book that is considered "woke" to try and understand the argument. This particular book contains elements that might be difficult (but not impossible) to explain to a 3 year old (assuming the child asks questions). Children are curious, so it's then left to the parent to explain. And here's where the problem starts. Most parents aren't woke or particularly inclined toward what's in the book so they might have to fight their own internal biases before even talking to their child. Then there is the issue of being skilled enough to decipher the underlying message. I think Ralli overestimates the capacity to understand concepts that should be understood by a 3 year old because a lot of people lack the necessary skills to deconstruct/decipher and communicate her message. From that persepctive I would disagree with her premise (not because she is wrong but because her target market need the message explained by people for whom it's too late.

2. Her being jewish is irrelevant. Jewish people in American self-identify as mainstream white (what else do they self-identify as?). I do hope you aren't anti-semitic?

3. I'm Australian born/bred but my wife is Malaysian Indian. I'm guessing I know your background (not hard to guess).

Most Ashkenazi Jews probably think of themselves as "white," though certainly not in the sense that "white" is somehow an "identity." They don't feel a strong sense of "whiteness." Some have a strong sense of being Jews, though.

A few generations ago, there were some people who would say that Ashkenazi Jews weren't "white."

There is even less of a sense of "whiteness" amongst Sephardic Jews.

Obviously, there is no sense of "whiteness" amongst Ethiopian Jews.

Certainly, I feel absolutely no sense of "white identity" whatsoever. I have a slight sense of being a Jew----though I certainly don't think about it all the time. If it happens that I have African ancestry somewhere, I wouldn't get all worked up about it. Really, in actuality, ultimately, we ALL have African ancestry.

Last edited by kraftiekortie on 10 May 2022, 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Lol that's funny.

It's actually true about black African children thinking white folks are "ghosts." It's certainly not universal----but it does occur.

To be fair a number of groups weren't considered "white" many generations ago including Arabs, Italians, Greeks and even Irish. It provides even more reason for children to not get too invested in a self-identity construct that was invented purely because of slavery.



There is a strong push by many conservatives to buy into research that oppose the "out of Africa" population/gene flow theory. Many people aren't comfortable with their children learning this and so (ironically) want other ideas put forward (it would be appear that critical thinking becomes important if it helps perpetuate outdated social norms.)

Last edited by cyberdad on 10 May 2022, 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

2 year olds are innocent little angels...

A lot hinges on what is on page 2. And let's not forget the rest of the book.

I remember when I first experienced racism in school, on the racist end of it. I was ahead of my class i reading (in first grade!) when the teacher started a chapter about the Cruz family, whose name I promptly mispronounced. Then they had tortillas for dinner, which I also mispronounced. I suddenly went from head of the class to idiot who couldn't pronounce words properly. At age five, I started hating Hispanics for their differences and what it had done to me, when there was absolutely NO intervention from a teacher to tell me "It's OK. They have a different culture, different foods, and you're not an idiot for not knowing these things."

We need a better way of teaching kids that differences are OK, and learning is the key to acceptance.

And with that, we'll probably be mourning the demise of another thread...

I miss the days when posters here could tackle difficult and confronting issues but maintain a sense of humour.

I've raised two kids, and consider it a myth to believe that children don't notice skin color differences. They do notice, especially when they are in ages and stages that enjoy sorting. But it is also important to note that noticing is not the same as judging, and if a parent handles the questions with acceptance, the kids will adsorb the concept of plurality easily and naturally. So, yes, people came with all a large variety of skin tones, from very light to very dark. That was really all my kids needed to hear.

Going back to the book, if that sample page is correct, I don't know why the author had to identify "white" people as creating a concept of race. People dividing and sorting is as old as time, and hardly limited to Caucasians. The book could have mentioned that categorizing by "race" is an artificial construct without blaming a single group. Delving into the history of injustices and considering the concept of potential blame seems like a topic for a much older group. The message for young kids might include understanding that people have often been treated unfairly because of skin color, and that doing so is considered wrong, since people are people. Having everyone be different enriches life for all of us.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 10 May 2022, 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I don't consider the above to be an accurate statement, although it does vary.

I think what the author is trying to say is that white Americans created the concept of the "white race" around the 1690s to justify treatment of black slaves - it was an artificial construct with no biological basis. Prior to this people never used the concept of skin colour to classify humanity into black/white. They simply identified themselves by nationality.

The father of biology Carl Linnaeus divided humans into varieties and "European" was one variety. But if you read the writings of the Linneaus society they are at great pains that Linneaus never used the term "race" to describe humans. This came later.

It was not until 1795 a biologist named Blumenbach introduced the classification of "caucasian" based purely on his belief that the skulls of humans from the caucasus region were the most beautiful in the world (Ralli actually includes this as a cartoon in her Children's book lampooning Blumenbach's attempt to introduce an artificial heirarchy into the categories of humans). Blumenbach then created fiction that God created Europeans first and that other races formed as a form of "degeneration" (his words) from the original stock. Blumenbach was influenced by racist interpretation of the bible where one of the son's of Noah was punished and his descendants cursed to be black and he was aware of the new concept of slave/master in the new world which was becoming commonly used - white, blanco - black/negro.

Self-identification. Please show me one example of a non-African or non-Asian Jewish American who self-identifies as black or asiatic in the United States. I suspect the number is zero.

I doubt that these Jews identify as white.

Beyond that from what I have been told prior to the mid-1960s the idea that Jews were white would seem laughable. They were not allowed in country clubs, there were quotas against them in clubs and jobs, Henry Ford wrote an antisemitic book, Popular radio personality Father Conklin preached against them, and American hero Charles Lindbergh was the face of the original "America First" movement.

In 1968 a teacher's strike of all things changed this and a lot of things. Oversimplifying things it pitted the mostly Jewish teachers union's for the desire for union and professional protections against a black community's desire for local control. Things got very heated. A few years earlier the Jews with the holocaust just in the rearview mirror and the blacks in the midst of the civil rights movement were natural allies. No more. The Jews and Catholics cultural and political rivals prior to the strike united against the blacks and after that Jews were considered and thought of themselves as a white ethnic group.

For a more detailed look at this event
The Ocean Hill-Brownsville Crisis: New York’s Antigone by Jerold E. Podair history, Lawrence University 2001