10 killed in Buffalo in act of white supremacist terrorism

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kraftiekortie
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18 May 2022, 6:48 am

Policy, ideally, should transcend politics.

Duda is a relative “right winger”—but he has a good handle on the Ukrainian situation.



demeus
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18 May 2022, 7:01 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
↑ So you defend the open discussion of racist ideologies.

What are your REAL reasons for that?

I don't know his reasons but there is this old largely forgotten concept known as "The Price of Freedom". Originally it meant accepting that soldiers will lose their lives so that America will not be subjugated to a foreign authoritarian power. The same concept should apply domestically. It can be argued that allowing open advocacy of bigotry will save more lives than it costs. What can't be argued is that allowing open advocacy of bigotry, has, does, and will have a price in destruction, injury, and death. So why accept the price? After all, we do not allow 100 percent freedom of speech. Especially as a Jewish person, it would be more than emotionally satisfying to see people like this person jailed, their mouths zipped closed, their hands permanently tied down so they can not speak, type, or write again. The reason is it is my belief with plenty of historical precedents that the ban won't be limited to open advocacy of bigotry. It is human nature that once we have given ground it becomes easier and easier to give in more and more. SCOTUS, not just the current packed court but justices from all political stripes have understood this, and have repeatedly upheld "hate speech" as a protected right.


My reasoning is that it will make it harder to track these groups (maybe not impossible but harder) if they are driven underground and into the dark recesses of the internet where search engines like Google cannot find them.

You do however bring up a good point however that there will be 1A issues regarding the restriction of hate speech, especially with the current makeup of SCOTUS and previous precedent.



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18 May 2022, 7:02 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Policy, ideally, should transcend politics.

Duda is a relative “right winger”—but he has a good handle on the Ukrainian situation.
And I'm not a fan of him in general but I fully support what he's doing about Ukraine.


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demeus
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18 May 2022, 7:02 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I feel like many of those 75 million should learn to think for themselves.

Many are stuck with their party, no matter who their “leader” is.

Party, rather than person, is problematic.


But that is both sides of the political spectrum, not just for the right but for the left too.



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18 May 2022, 7:05 am

One wonders the contribution of those with influence enabling the "fringe" to act on their bottled up urges.

In the past Sarah Palin and the Tea Party goons and more recently Steve Bannon, Donald Trump, Tucker Carlson and Marjorie Tayloe Greene are but just a few whose dog whistling to the far right fringe is tipping them toward violence against innocent civilians like the decent people who died at the hands of Dylan Roof and now by this scum in Buffalo.



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18 May 2022, 7:06 am

demeus wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I feel like many of those 75 million should learn to think for themselves.

Many are stuck with their party, no matter who their “leader” is.

Party, rather than person, is problematic.


But that is both sides of the political spectrum, not just for the right but for the left too.


Here we go again.



Matrix Glitch
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18 May 2022, 7:11 am

demeus wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I feel like many of those 75 million should learn to think for themselves.

Many are stuck with their party, no matter who their “leader” is.

Party, rather than person, is problematic.


But that is both sides of the political spectrum, not just for the right but for the left too.


Yes indeed.



demeus
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18 May 2022, 7:13 am

cyberdad wrote:
demeus wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I feel like many of those 75 million should learn to think for themselves.

Many are stuck with their party, no matter who their “leader” is.

Party, rather than person, is problematic.


But that is both sides of the political spectrum, not just for the right but for the left too.


Here we go again.


Here we go again what? I am a political moderate (although I will admit that I do lean a little to the right). I watch this stuff as an outsider because I am not a member of either party. Left extremists will certainly resort to the same actions as right extremists to achieve their program.

This country worked best when it was ran mostly by moderates who understood the need for compromise and there was no contest on who won or lost in any compromise that we see today. We are instead seeing the results of political parties that our founding fathers warned us about (although most of them succumbed to political party membership anyways). Many of our problems today could be solved if we were just willing to look at the middle ground and compromise a little bit for the best of society.



Matrix Glitch
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18 May 2022, 7:13 am

cyberdad wrote:
demeus wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I feel like many of those 75 million should learn to think for themselves.

Many are stuck with their party, no matter who their “leader” is.

Party, rather than person, is problematic.


But that is both sides of the political spectrum, not just for the right but for the left too.


Here we go again.


Here we go again with what, non-partisan objectivity?



kraftiekortie
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18 May 2022, 7:50 am

I've always deplored extremism on "both sides."

Yes, I believe people on the "left" should think for themselves, too. I don't believe in all the CRT stuff, all the "woke" stuff. Some of it I believe in; some I don't believe in. People should use critical thinking. Sometimes, this stuff can really go too far.

My posting history should let you folks know that I believe that.

I'm a "moderate" who might offend "both sides." But such is life in 2022 :)



ASPartOfMe
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18 May 2022, 8:21 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I've always deplored extremism on "both sides."

Yes, I believe people on the "left" should think for themselves, too. I don't believe in all the CRT stuff, all the "woke" stuff. Some of it I believe in; some I don't believe in. People should use critical thinking. Sometimes, this stuff can really go too far.

My posting history should let you folks know that I believe that.

I'm a "moderate" who might offend "both sides." But such is life in 2022 :)

I am going to now offend more people. The racists rights illiberalism is more open and lethal then the the lefts racist illiberalism. The racist right terrorist attacks have killed around a hundred or so in the last few years. The lefts maybe a handful if that. Death count is one way of figuring out which side is worse. Other ways of looking at which is worse is policy and popularity. People that believe in the Great Replacement theory are truly a small fringe of the population, of that group those that act upon their beliefs and commit terrorist attacks a small fringe of that. On the other hand policies that fall under the general description of woke are influential in academia, a lot of businesses especially those companies that are influential and market the to the young ie the future, and certain areas of the government. So I posit that while at this moment the right’s illiberalism seems to be the bigger threat, that is the product of the emotion of the moment it is the left’s illiberalism is bigger danger.

I maybe right I maybe wrong but while it is important, it is not the most important to threat the American experiment, that belongs to yes “both sides” because they feed off of each other thus accelerating the slippery slope affect.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 18 May 2022, 9:29 am, edited 3 times in total.

ASPartOfMe
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18 May 2022, 8:27 am

cyberdad wrote:
One wonders the contribution of those with influence enabling the "fringe" to act on their bottled up urges.

In the past Sarah Palin and the Tea Party goons and more recently Steve Bannon, Donald Trump, Tucker Carlson and Marjorie Tayloe Greene are but just a few whose dog whistling to the far right fringe is tipping them toward violence against innocent civilians like the decent people who died at the hands of Dylan Roof and now by this scum in Buffalo.

While all the people you noted have done harm, it should be noted that Grendon named none of these people as influencing him in his manifesto.


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cosmicloveguru
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18 May 2022, 8:29 am

funeralxempire wrote:
The same people who told me I need to be scared of Islamic terrorism are actually by far the most severe terrorist threat.


this



cosmicloveguru
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18 May 2022, 8:37 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Told you they'd get around to this: .....


False flags , "fake news", "media globalist zionists", conspiracy theories everywhere- nothing is real anymore. The republican party lives in delusions and not in Reality. Nothing will get through to these people as they simply want destruction and oblivion.



kraftiekortie
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18 May 2022, 8:40 am

The Buffalo Murderer was an adherent of "Replacement Theory." I've read of some people calling this "white genocide."

It's a nutty ideology----whereby it is alleged that nonwhite people are (consciously) seeking to "replace" white people in the population.



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18 May 2022, 8:47 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
The Buffalo Murderer was an adherent of "Replacement Theory." I've read of some people calling this "white genocide."

It's a nutty ideology----whereby it is alleged that nonwhite people are (consciously) seeking to "replace" white people in the population.


Maybe not replace but surpass. Which I've heard from people of color. Can't say as I blame them.