10 killed in Buffalo in act of white supremacist terrorism

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magz
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21 May 2022, 5:44 am

Radical far right is always a threat.
I don't think it's much up to Zelensky - how much time will he have after the war is over? Three years of this cadence? Maybe a second term if he's elected but he well might be not.
It's up to Ukrainian society, what to do.
And from my own observations in Poland, the most successful way of managing nationalist element of the society is moderate right talking to them and persuading them that harmful actions are not patriotism. At least, here it works that way. We need moderate right to help de-radicalize far right.


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21 May 2022, 5:45 am

Also, if there are "certain faults" on the "Ukrainian" side in the present/future. Correctly demarcating executors and others based on pre-event facts would prevent such events from undermining the legitimacy of Ukraine's resistance to aggression.


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21 May 2022, 6:12 am

SkinnedWolf wrote:
Also, if there are "certain faults" on the "Ukrainian" side in the present/future. Correctly demarcating executors and others based on pre-event facts would prevent such events from undermining the legitimacy of Ukraine's resistance to aggression.


For the moment Russian war crimes outweigh the recruitment of neo-Nazis into the Ukrainian army. If I was a Ukrainian I would rather my family be protected by Nazis than killed by Russians.

But...when this conflict is over...we are left with unanswered questions over demilitarising the Azov and other groups.

We are also left with unanswered questions over the treatment of non-white foreign students in both Ukraine and also in nearby Belarus, Moldova and Poland.



magz
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21 May 2022, 6:48 am

cyberdad wrote:
But...when this conflict is over...we are left with unanswered questions over demilitarising the Azov and other groups.
There'll be a lot of open questions. Just like there are all over the world, all the time.

cyberdad wrote:
We are also left with unanswered questions over the treatment of non-white foreign students in both Ukraine and also in nearby Belarus, Moldova and Poland.
Can you please read the articles you post yourself?
The students were safely sent to their homelands and those violent idiots who attacked them got arrested and condemned.
Managing over 10 times the normal traffic on the border, with objectively good reasons for panic, changing the whole country's demographics in just a few weeks and having only this level of unwanted incidents is an objective achievement.


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21 May 2022, 2:32 pm

magz wrote:
Radical far right is always a threat.
I don't think it's much up to Zelensky - how much time will he have after the war is over? Three years of this cadence? Maybe a second term if he's elected but he well might be not.
It's up to Ukrainian society, what to do.
And from my own observations in Poland, the most successful way of managing nationalist element of the society is moderate right talking to them and persuading them that harmful actions are not patriotism. At least, here it works that way. We need moderate right to help de-radicalize far right.


Where things stand here, only the far-left can neutralize the far-right.



magz
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21 May 2022, 2:34 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
Where things stand here, only the far-left can neutralize the far-right.
Ever heard of a horseshoe?

But leave the horseshoe away. Far left feeds far right, just like far right feeds far left. Polarization and radicalization are not good for anyone... except for someone who benefits from chaos.


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21 May 2022, 2:48 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
Where things stand here, only the far-left can neutralize the far-right.

There is no "neutralization". Only more hatred.
This is how cultural progressivism fails in the environment I am familiar with.
And those opinion leaders who don't really believe in their professed ideology had reaped a lot of benefits. There is even evidence that some of them actually claim two extremisms one after the other.


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cyberdad
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21 May 2022, 10:06 pm

magz wrote:
The students were safely sent to their homelands and those violent idiots who attacked them got arrested and condemned.
Managing over 10 times the normal traffic on the border, with objectively good reasons for panic, changing the whole country's demographics in just a few weeks and having only this level of unwanted incidents is an objective achievement.


I'm glad to hear justice was served. but how much doesn't get reported? interviews from a handful of refugees out of perhaps thousands might be an indicator of what's going on in the background. I am sure there are plenty of refugees who don't get an opportunity or are too scared to report anything.

History doesn't bode well when western countries throw their support behind the "good guys". I am reminded of support given by the US to Pol Pot giving rise to genocide of millions of Cambodians, US support for Pakistan against Bangladesh ending up with murder of thousands of Bangledeshis, Argentinian, Chilean and Venezualan anti-communist groups giving rise to years of extra-judicial killing of civilians, support for Palestinian democracy which only gave rise to extremist HAMAS, or support to the Afghan Mujahadeen against the Russians which gave rise to the Taliban or support for Bin Laden against Sadam Hussein giving rise to Al Qaeda or support for the Burmese democracy movement giving rise to genocide of Rohingya.

However if you are 100% confident that Ukraine will come out of this conflict "Squeaky clean" then lets hope they can manage that.



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22 May 2022, 1:03 am

magz wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
Where things stand here, only the far-left can neutralize the far-right.
Ever heard of a horseshoe?

But leave the horseshoe away. Far left feeds far right, just like far right feeds far left. Polarization and radicalization are not good for anyone... except for someone who benefits from chaos.


Historically fascists have relied on fear of the far-left to gain support from the centre and right.
fishhook > horseshoe :nerdy:


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22 May 2022, 1:47 am

funeralxempire wrote:
magz wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
Where things stand here, only the far-left can neutralize the far-right.
Ever heard of a horseshoe?

But leave the horseshoe away. Far left feeds far right, just like far right feeds far left. Polarization and radicalization are not good for anyone... except for someone who benefits from chaos.


Historically fascists have relied on fear of the far-left to gain support from the centre and right.
fishhook > horseshoe :nerdy:


Are you daring to suggest that Antifa aren't the most dangerous group on the planet! shame on you FE



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22 May 2022, 2:40 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Historically fascists have relied on fear of the far-left to gain support from the centre and right.
fishhook > horseshoe :nerdy:
Correct.
And "far left" in their times was actually a pretty bad option, too, likely just as violent, only in different manner.
Really, we need strong "reasonable left" and "reasonable right" to prevent catastrophes like that one.

I'm not promoting any symmetrist centrism, btw. I'm advocating for both conservatist and progressive movements to drop the most destructive behaviors, as they fuel destructiveness on the other side.


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22 May 2022, 3:11 am

magz wrote:
And "far left" in their times was actually a pretty bad option, too, likely just as violent, only in different manner.
.


Invoking the far left in 2022 is irrelevant. The last bastions of communism (Russia, China) are infact authoritarian governments who operate in the free market.

North Korea is a basket case and Cuba is a "lame duck" politically since the deaths of Fidel Castro and Che Guevera.

So where are these far left dangers we should be losing sleep over??



magz
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22 May 2022, 3:17 am

^ That's true, right now there aren't great destructive far left forces, of the kind from 90 years ago.
Unreasonable ideas is currently the worst I see on the far left.
I'd love moderate right to explain it to far right. That way, there'd be a chance for de-escalation.


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cyberdad
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22 May 2022, 3:25 am

magz wrote:
^ That's true, right now there aren't great destructive far left forces, of the kind from 90 years ago.
Unreasonable ideas is currently the worst I see on the far left.
I'd love moderate right to explain it to far right. That way, there'd be a chance for de-escalation.


The ideas of the far left were identified as unrealistic almost a few years after Karl Marx published his manifesto. Yes they held many noble ideals but Marx didn't understand human psychology and he himself was a contradiction in that he was a member of the bourgeois (not the proletariat) and never assumed his ideas would only ever be taken up by independence movements in the developing world (infact he would have been surprised given Marx was a racist and the countries who eventually became communist would have been considered too primitive/backward to Marx).



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22 May 2022, 2:21 pm

Op-Ed: Mass shooters aren’t mentally ill people who suddenly snap. They decide to kill
By Mark Follman
May 21, 2022 3:05 AM PT

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2 ... gs-buffalo

"
In 2018, a deep investigation of 63 rampage shooters conducted by experts with the FBI’s Behavioral Analysis Unit showed that only a quarter of the offenders were known to have been professionally diagnosed with a mental illness of any kind. While it’s possible that some suicidal attackers may have gone undiagnosed, only three of the 63 perpetrators, or about 5% of the total examined, had a known psychotic disorder.

Blaming mental illness for mass shootings inflicts a damaging stigma on the millions of people who suffer from clinical afflictions, the vast majority of whom are not violent. Extensive research shows the link between mental illness and violent behavior is small and not useful for predicting violent acts; people with diagnosable conditions such as schizophrenia or bipolar disorder are in fact far more likely to be victims than perpetrators of violence.

Yet no person who commits a mass shooting is, in a basic sense, mentally healthy. So if we want to do more to reduce these attacks, we need to better understand the behaviors and circumstances that lead up to them.

Threat assessment experts have found that in a majority of cases warning signs are noticeable to people who are in the orbit of would-be shooters. These don’t fulfill any predictive checklist — as the public commonly expects due to the notion of criminal profiling — but compose a set of actions and conditions that indicate potential danger. They also reveal opportunity to intervene.
"


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22 May 2022, 2:30 pm

Did the Buffalo mass shooting suspect’s 90% white hometown fuel his hate?
By Connor SheetsStaff Writer
May 19, 2022 3 AM PT

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... oter-story

"
Though both of Gendron’s parents are engineers — for a time the career path he planned to follow — the family is split along political lines. State voting records show that his mother is a registered Republican and his father is registered as a Democrat.

Their community too is divided. In Broome County, home to Conklin and Binghamton, Joe Biden garnered 50.6% of the vote in the 2020 presidential election, while Donald Trump received 47.2%, according to county election data.
"


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