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The_Face_of_Boo
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13 May 2022, 1:48 am

https://english.alarabiya.net/News/worl ... fghan-city


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magz
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13 May 2022, 2:10 am

Step by step, they go back to what their previous rule looked like :(


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The_Face_of_Boo
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13 May 2022, 4:07 am

Did anyone expect otherwise? Oh yes…. the Democrat americans :facepalm:.


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naturalplastic
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13 May 2022, 4:10 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Did anyone expect otherwise? Oh yes…. the Democrat americans :facepalm:.


So...what is this better idea you obviously have for what any American POTUS should have done?

Stay in Afganistan forever?

Or what?



magz
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13 May 2022, 4:20 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Did anyone expect otherwise? Oh yes…. the Democrat americans :facepalm:.
I'd like to point out that both the last POTUSes declared will to withdraw troops from Afghanistan. Not just the Democrat one.
I feel very sad for Afghans but what should the rest of the world do? Stay as occupation forces forever? Install a dictator and watch the civil war? Other ideas?


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Radish
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13 May 2022, 4:34 am

magz wrote:
what should the rest of the world do?


Exactly. At some point the rest of the world has just got to leave them to get on with ruling themselves. A significant part of the population helped and welcomed the Taliban back to power, all I can say is beware what you wish for.


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13 May 2022, 5:32 am

magz wrote:
Step by step, they go back to what their previous rule looked like :(


Thanks to Biden. ;)


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And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
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The_Face_of_Boo
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13 May 2022, 5:36 am

magz wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Did anyone expect otherwise? Oh yes…. the Democrat americans :facepalm:.
I'd like to point out that both the last POTUSes declared will to withdraw troops from Afghanistan. Not just the Democrat one.
I feel very sad for Afghans but what should the rest of the world do? Stay as occupation forces forever? Install a dictator and watch the civil war? Other ideas?


This
https://ecfr.eu/article/afghanistan-how ... different/


Or at least, let them be honest about it and say they don't give a f-. I think Trump was more honest about this in this regard.


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Pepe
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13 May 2022, 5:41 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Did anyone expect otherwise? Oh yes…. the Democrat americans :facepalm:.


All it would have taken was 2,000 Ammuuurian "peacekeeping" troops and the threat of retaliation if they were harmed, but political considerations stymied that.
That was bad enough, but the way the rout happened was even worse, and that was on Biden's watch. 8O

While I don't think Ammuuuria should be the world's police force, the decision to remove military support in Afghanistan did have its devastating consequences, and it would be a foolish brave democrat to deny that, imo. 8)


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Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


magz
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13 May 2022, 6:20 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Quote:
In the US debate today there are voices saying that it was a mistake to get involved in what they call “nation building” right after this. But what happened was rather the reverse.
To this, I agree. The twenty years were largely wasted or even used counter-prodictively, instead of used for helping to build self-reliant social structures.
What we don't talk about: enormous corruption was part of how the Taliban made their way back in. It's "normal" in Central Asia but Americans don't navigate this element well.


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Pepe
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13 May 2022, 6:32 am

magz wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Quote:
In the US debate today there are voices saying that it was a mistake to get involved in what they call “nation building” right after this. But what happened was rather the reverse.
To this, I agree. The twenty years was largely wasted or even used counter-prodictively, instead of used for helping to build self-reliant social structures.
What we don't talk about: enormous corruption was part of how the Taliban made their way back in. It's "normal" in Central Asia but Americans don't navigate this element well.


The end result was a tragedy, but I would have still wanted those 20 years of personal freedoms while they lasted.
Unfortunately, having those benefits eventually taken away is an extrememly bitter pill to swallow.
Perhaps some can find their way out of the hell they find themselves in now by emigrating.

It is akin to a love story where the relationship ends in acrimony, but far worse, obviously.
Humanity. :eew:


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Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


ASPartOfMe
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13 May 2022, 8:23 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Did anyone expect otherwise? Oh yes…. the Democrat americans :facepalm:.


So...what is this better idea you obviously have for what any American POTUS should have done?

Stay in Afganistan forever?

Or what?

Maybe. That token force of 3,000 had things stabilized for a while.


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naturalplastic
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14 May 2022, 12:11 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
magz wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Did anyone expect otherwise? Oh yes…. the Democrat americans :facepalm:.
I'd like to point out that both the last POTUSes declared will to withdraw troops from Afghanistan. Not just the Democrat one.
I feel very sad for Afghans but what should the rest of the world do? Stay as occupation forces forever? Install a dictator and watch the civil war? Other ideas?


This
https://ecfr.eu/article/afghanistan-how ... different/


Or at least, let them be honest about it and say they don't give a f-. I think Trump was more honest about this in this regard.


So...youre admitting that Trump was just as bad (what the article says), and that indeed you do NOT have any better ideas. The article declares that 'it coulda been handled better' but doesnt really say how.

Maybe Biden should have set things up so all Afghans who had worked for the US could be quietly whisked out of the country while the US still supported the govt there. But that just would have communicated the US no longer has faith in the mission, would have driven local provinces to make deals with the Taliban, and the house of cards would have fallen, just as far, and probably just as fast.

I suppose that we could have kept a small peacekeeping force in Afghanistan, and decide to keep in perpetuity. Kinda like how we have troops in South Korea and in Germany. But then you cant make the dichotomy between Trump and Biden, because Trump couldnt even tolerate our continued presence in Korea, and Germany, and wanted to dismantle NATO. So there is no way Trump would have kept a peacekeeping force in Afghanistan.



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14 May 2022, 12:28 am

Pepe wrote:
magz wrote:
Step by step, they go back to what their previous rule looked like :(


Thanks to Biden. ;)


Since we are flying political flags (even humour), I can't imagine the Kurds send christmas cards to Trump either
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-vete ... nt-2019-11



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14 May 2022, 12:34 am

magz wrote:
Step by step, they go back to what their previous rule looked like :(


Countries like Iran and Afghanistan. Iraq, Pakistan and Somalia have had their internal affairs interfered with by the USA, If Ukraine has the right to determine their affairs without Russian interference then why not Afghanistan?

The Afghan society seems to gravitate toward military strongmen because that is the culture the majority of the population seem inclined toward, The British, Russians and now the Americans have all failed because Afghanistan want to determine their own affairs and not be transformed into a clone of some foreign power that is alien to their culture.



The_Face_of_Boo
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14 May 2022, 1:52 am

naturalplastic wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
magz wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Did anyone expect otherwise? Oh yes…. the Democrat americans :facepalm:.
I'd like to point out that both the last POTUSes declared will to withdraw troops from Afghanistan. Not just the Democrat one.
I feel very sad for Afghans but what should the rest of the world do? Stay as occupation forces forever? Install a dictator and watch the civil war? Other ideas?


This
https://ecfr.eu/article/afghanistan-how ... different/


Or at least, let them be honest about it and say they don't give a f-. I think Trump was more honest about this in this regard.


So...youre admitting that Trump was just as bad (what the article says), and that indeed you do NOT have any better ideas. The article declares that 'it coulda been handled better' but doesnt really say how.

Maybe Biden should have set things up so all Afghans who had worked for the US could be quietly whisked out of the country while the US still supported the govt there. But that just would have communicated the US no longer has faith in the mission, would have driven local provinces to make deals with the Taliban, and the house of cards would have fallen, just as far, and probably just as fast.

I suppose that we could have kept a small peacekeeping force in Afghanistan, and decide to keep in perpetuity. Kinda like how we have troops in South Korea and in Germany. But then you cant make the dichotomy between Trump and Biden, because Trump couldnt even tolerate our continued presence in Korea, and Germany, and wanted to dismantle NATO. So there is no way Trump would have kept a peacekeeping force in Afghanistan.



Of course he was as bad, what was done with the Kurds was the same. It was even more unexpected.


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