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Fnord
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25 May 2022, 3:39 pm

League_Girl wrote:
Honestly I don't get how sensitive this topic is because to me another school shooting is just another crime incident and naming the shooter is no different than naming other killers and rapists and other criminals. . .
I have no problem with naming the perps, as long as their victims' names are given priority.  Otherwise, it seems disrespectful of the victims and their families (to me).  It also seems to be giving to the perps exactly what they were looking for -- fame -- and posting their pictures even more so.



IsabellaLinton
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25 May 2022, 3:47 pm

I don't care about their name or face either. It's not like I'm traumatised by their face since they're dead and they aren't going to hurt or harm me. It's not like they live nearby and I have to beware of them.

Personally, I think photos should be avoided out of respect for the survivors and the bereaved who are traumatised. I don't just mean on WP but in the media. Imagine being a survivor or losing a loved one to such a horrendous and traumatic event and seeing the perp's face all over the newspaper / TV, like they are the story instead of your child.

I even think of Sweetleaf and the trauma she experienced at her high school shooting, losing a friend. I doubt she'd want to see that man's face on WP. For all we know, people on this site are connected to lives lost in this crime or others.

The story isn't about that man. It's about the lives lost.



Fnord
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25 May 2022, 3:53 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I don't care about their name or face either. It's not like I'm traumatised by their face since they're dead and they aren't going to hurt or harm me. It's not like they live nearby and I have to beware of them.

Personally, I think photos should be avoided out of respect for the survivors and the bereaved who are traumatised. I don't just mean on WP but in the media. Imagine being a survivor or losing a loved one to such a horrendous and traumatic event and seeing the perp's face all over the newspaper / TV, like they are the story instead of your child.

I even think of Sweetleaf and the trauma she experienced at her high school shooting, losing a friend. I doubt she'd want to see that man's face on WP. For all we know, people on this site are connected to lives lost in this crime or others.

The story isn't about that man. It's about the lives lost.
This makes perfect sense.  I felt the same way whenever I saw the yearbook picture of the woman who killed my best childhood friend.  I eventually threw out my yearbook rather than deface it by tearing out several pages (she was popular) or cutting out her numerous pictures.



cyberdad
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25 May 2022, 4:32 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
If the shooter was "trans," so what?

He still killed a bunch of people.


He was driven over the edge by a girl
https://www.news.com.au/world/north-ame ... a021859aeb



Persephone29
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25 May 2022, 4:34 pm

Pepe wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
I'm hanging out my shingle for a minute ~

This kid is miserable. Instead of feeling motivated to change HIS circumstances, he'll just change the circumstances of those he perceives to be full of hope and promise. He's conditioned to believe that happiness, acceptance, success, purpose, etc... is his birth right. Not sure about grandma, she could have hurt him. Or, she could simply be guilty of telling him to get up off his lazy ass and do something about his own God forsaken life.

As far as the gun stuff goes, suggesting that the US give them up is pointless. It's always the first thing mentioned and perhaps they are right, but the fact remains that it's never going to happen. So, why not offer up something with that in mind? The US has way more guns in circulation than citizens. If the majority gave the go ahead and consented to turning them over, you would never be able to seize them all. They would remain in the hands of criminals, always. Registration only deals with legal sales of relatively recent purchases of guns, it does not deal with personal sales, stolen guns, or guns passed down to family members. So, just saying 'wake up,' is not helpful.



Criminals don't usually engage in mass shooting sprees.


Pardon, they'll just kill you one at a time.


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IsabellaLinton
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25 May 2022, 4:38 pm

^^

He was driven over the edge by being an impulsive sociopath.
It wasn't that young woman's fault, even if she received his final correspondence.

I hope she gets the counselling she's going to need.

:(



kraftiekortie
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25 May 2022, 4:41 pm

It certainly wasn't the girl's fault.

He drove himself "over the edge."



Fnord
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25 May 2022, 4:46 pm

cyberdad wrote:
He was driven over the edge by a girl.
The cited article gave no such indication.

[opinion=mine]

More likely, he was "driven over the edge" by years of being bullied for his speech impediments, his parent's divorce, the estrangement between him and his mother and step-father, his failure to graduate high school, and his grandmother's scorn for not graduating.

[/opinion]

:shrug: We may never know for certain.



cyberdad
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25 May 2022, 4:50 pm

Fnord wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
He was driven over the edge by a girl.
The cited article gave no such indication.

[opinion=mine]

More likely, he was "driven over the edge" by years of being bullied for his speech impediments, his parent's divorce, the estrangement between him and his mother and step-father, his failure to graduate high school, and his grandmother's scorn for not graduating.

[/opinion]

:shrug: We may never know for certain.


speech impediments?



cyberdad
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25 May 2022, 4:52 pm

Fnord wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
He was driven over the edge by a girl.
The cited article gave no such indication.

[opinion=mine]

More likely, he was "driven over the edge" by years of being bullied for his speech impediments, his parent's divorce, the estrangement between him and his mother and step-father, his failure to graduate high school, and his grandmother's scorn for not graduating.

[/opinion]

:shrug: We may never know for certain.


This 15 year old girl was the last person he messaged 5 min before his killing spree



IsabellaLinton
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25 May 2022, 4:54 pm

Fnord wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
He was driven over the edge by a girl.
The cited article gave no such indication.

[opinion=mine]

More likely, he was "driven over the edge" by years of being bullied for his speech impediments, his parent's divorce, the estrangement between him and his mother and step-father, his failure to graduate high school, and his grandmother's scorn for not graduating.

[/opinion]

:shrug: We may never know for certain.


My dad had a speech impediment, he was autistic and bullied at school, his parents got divorced (actually granddad abandoned her without a divorce, went into hiding for eight years and then killed himself), and he didn't graduate high school despite being brilliant.

He didn't murder anyone. In fact he died a hero.



kraftiekortie
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25 May 2022, 4:56 pm

I was just going to write something similar to Isabella. She beat me to it.

I was bullied for many reasons as a kid. I was beat up a few times. Nope.....I didn't even think about getting a gun and shooting someone.

Something has to be done. Too many people are snapping.



cyberdad
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25 May 2022, 4:59 pm

Are we basing these points on limited information leaking through??



IsabellaLinton
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25 May 2022, 5:10 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I was just going to write something similar to Isabella. She beat me to it.

I was bullied for many reasons as a kid. I was beat up a few times. Nope.....I didn't even think about getting a gun and shooting someone.

Something has to be done. Too many people are snapping.



People are going to look for reasons to blame and point fingers. Speech impediments, social rejection, learning disabilities, drugs, girls ... whatever they can use to make their best guess. The truth of the matter is we'll never know, not in crimes where the perp is dead. Even when they're alive like that teenaged boy in Michigan, it becomes lawyers' and psychiatrists' best guess in drawn-out court cases where witnesses just want to save their own arse.

That's why I hate the media follow-up and all the questions of "why". There isn't a quick fix. Most people can't see red flags except in retrospect. We can't start accusing every troubled person of being a potential killer. We can't even force people to get mental health care.

The best people can do is protect their most valuable assets: their children. Schools should be locked to all outside entry. It doesn't cost money to lock a set of doors. Some schools need metal detectors. Personally, I'd never allow my child to attend public school in America. Nor would I accept the responsibility of being a teacher or school support staff. I know that's a luxury for me to homeschool but the numbers are just too terrifying. I'm not blaming schools but it's shameful the US government will spend kajillions of dollars invading other countries when they can't protect their own students by locking doors or changing legislation.

I read that this was the 28th school shooting in America in 2022. 250 people have already been murdered.



cyberdad
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25 May 2022, 5:15 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
That's why I hate the media follow-up and all the questions of "why". There isn't a quick fix. Most people can't see red flags except in retrospect. We can't start accusing every troubled person of being a potential killer. We can't even force people to get mental health care. .


I might be cancelled again but I completely disagree. The public safety comes first. What we learn from many of these mass shooters is that most of the blame starts with parents who give them access to weapons. Second people who are responsible for these teens turn a blind eye (like schools). If schools did more to counter bullies instead of enabling them then that would be a start,

Understanding the root cause for these shootings is in the public interest.



kraftiekortie
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25 May 2022, 5:51 pm

I honestly feel that people should be encouraged to speak to counselors and therapists. There should not be a stigma attached to this.

It's a double-edged sword. We should get at the motivation for these school shootings----but the act of publicizing the motivations tends to give food for thought for other potential school shooters.

Therapy should be cathartic----but I also believe people should be encouraged to have thicker skins, and to realize that they are not inferior people because they are bullied.

Of course, there should be, overall, less access to guns and ammunition, especially to people under the age of 21.

The Second Amendment was relevant to the 18th century, not to these days.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 25 May 2022, 5:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.