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Persephone29
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08 Jun 2022, 8:51 pm

^ Australia was 'locked down' for two years recently. No government should have that much power in a 'free' nation, a two year lockdown isn't freedom, it's no choice but to comply.


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ShaggyPlays
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08 Jun 2022, 9:22 pm

You mean the lockdown in response to the COVID-19 Pandemic? It isn't like they did it just for the fun of it. If the pandemic was bullets flying around everywhere killing people and transmitted from close contact with someone who was shot would you still be opposed to a lockdown, or would you be someone spouting how it is your god given right to get shot as it is your choice. As for how long it lasted Covid still exists, there are new variants and now Monkey Pox. Also Governments have Nuclear weapons, if the government wanted to just completely control our lives like a dictatorship I highly doubt we as normal civilians would stand a chance against them.



Pepe
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08 Jun 2022, 9:34 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
I do not trust my government, I do not trust any government. I trust ME and that's it.


Anyone who blindly trusts the establishment is a fool. 8)


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And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

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Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
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Pepe
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08 Jun 2022, 9:38 pm

ShaggyPlays wrote:
Logic feels lost these days, politicians think less doors is a solution for example. People don't wanna ban guns, but they also don't want to take responsibility either. They don't want to have to train, or have any restrictions on what guns they can use. They claim gun laws won't work because criminals exist as if that is justification when, by that logic why have laws at all, why not just go full on anarchy? They claim gun laws don't work because shootings happen where strict gun laws are in place, completely ignoring the fact that if laws aren't at a federal level you can just buy guns elsewhere. People don't want the government to affect their rights, but are fine with affecting the rights of their children. They don't want to feel like the government is controlling them while supporting "solutions" that just change who is the one being controlled.

No solution will be perfect, and any real solution will probably have people from both sides complaining. If a solution arises that works and both sides still have issues with it, then maybe that solution is what we need. I am by no means an expert in law, or statistical analysis, or anything that would give me insight into what a solution might be. I will say that maybe we should look at other countries like Sweden, Switzerland, New Zealand, Australia, and all the other countries that have had similar issues drastically reduced and see if we can learn something from them. There must be compromise, whether that means mandatory training/licensing laws, or heavy restrictions on what you can buy. If we are going to have a 2nd amendment we can't be as irresponsible as we have been.


Agreed. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


Pepe
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08 Jun 2022, 9:41 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
^ Australia was 'locked down' for two years recently. No government should have that much power in a 'free' nation, a two year lockdown isn't freedom, it's no choice but to comply.


Agree.
Shameful.
But it didn't really have any effect on us hermits. :mrgreen:

The socialist republic of Victoria was the biggest and most brutal offender.
"Dictator Dan" is a very naughty boy. :shameonyou:

Six years ago, I considered becoming a "Mexican" (we are "cockroaches" up here), but thankfully I dodged *that* bullet. 8O


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


Persephone29
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08 Jun 2022, 10:19 pm

ShaggyPlays wrote:
You mean the lockdown in response to the COVID-19 Pandemic? It isn't like they did it just for the fun of it. If the pandemic was bullets flying around everywhere killing people and transmitted from close contact with someone who was shot would you still be opposed to a lockdown, or would you be someone spouting how it is your god given right to get shot as it is your choice. As for how long it lasted Covid still exists, there are new variants and now Monkey Pox. Also Governments have Nuclear weapons, if the government wanted to just completely control our lives like a dictatorship I highly doubt we as normal civilians would stand a chance against them.


I'm still unvaxxed and I plan to stay that way. I worked all last school year with kids and I'm still here. I'm sorry, there's something off about all this. So yes, it's about the lockdown. And that's why you and I are different, I see a two year mandatory lockdown as an overreach and absolutely ridiculous. I don't plan to ever allow a government to tell me I can't leave my house for two years. And the fact that the government didn't think twice about mandating this and the citizens didn't think twice about complying is scary.

You could be right, I may not stand a chance. But at least my government hasn't succeeded in taking all the fight out of me before I even try to defend my way of life.


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ShaggyPlays
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08 Jun 2022, 10:32 pm

People were complying because we weren't just thinking about ourselves, we were doing it to help protect those of us who were more likely to die due to the virus. I vaccinated because I understood why there was a vaccination and because I have family I live with and worry about. I stayed home because I didn't want to risk getting myself or my family sick. The only thing off about it is the fact that people are so selfish and concerned about their own rights they tend to infringe upon the rights of others. Your right to do something is only protected until it starts affecting the rights of others. Just because you were not worried about getting sick doesn't give you the right to then get other people sick just because you don't care. I am less worried about the government and more worried about the corporations that fund them, because the government may set laws and regulations, but corporations are the ones who control the government.



Persephone29
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08 Jun 2022, 10:49 pm

ShaggyPlays wrote:
People were complying because we weren't just thinking about ourselves, we were doing it to help protect those of us who were more likely to die due to the virus. I vaccinated because I understood why there was a vaccination and because I have family I live with and worry about. I stayed home because I didn't want to risk getting myself or my family sick. The only thing off about it is the fact that people are so selfish and concerned about their own rights they tend to infringe upon the rights of others. Your right to do something is only protected until it starts affecting the rights of others. Just because you were not worried about getting sick doesn't give you the right to then get other people sick just because you don't care. I am less worried about the government and more worried about the corporations that fund them, because the government may set laws and regulations, but corporations are the ones who control the government.


I am in the 'at risk' category. I am a Lymphoma survivor, with an active autoinflammatory skin disease whose treatment is a medication that lowers the immune system. So, I'm sorry, I don't buy what you're saying. I'm not likely to make anyone sick, I'm likely to be made sick. But, I wasn't. And I didn't let the fear of it stop me serving children who just want a normal life by attending school.

Returning to the topic, I'll keep my gun. Thanks...


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ShaggyPlays
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08 Jun 2022, 11:10 pm

Ironic how you talk about not letting fear stop you from serving children, yet you are scared of the government taking over. I am not suggesting we take guns away from people, I am suggest we train people that want to own guns how to use them properly and regulate them. Also you are just as likely to spread Covid and get people sick as you are to get sick yourself since you can spread it even while showing no symptoms.



Persephone29
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08 Jun 2022, 11:48 pm

ShaggyPlays wrote:
Ironic how you talk about not letting fear stop you from serving children, yet you are scared of the government taking over. I am not suggesting we take guns away from people, I am suggest we train people that want to own guns how to use them properly and regulate them. Also you are just as likely to spread Covid and get people sick as you are to get sick yourself since you can spread it even while showing no symptoms.


The government has already taken over, that's what governments do. They just aren't involved in my personal life, or the personal lives of others like me as much as they would prefer. And since there are significantly more guns than people in the US, 326 million people to 393 million guns as of 2017, gun ownership plays a role. The US government knows that the American public will comply, to a degree. But once compliance begins to impact their ability to earn a living, the American public will push back. Not so for countries who have surrendered their weapons... they have no choice but to comply because the only ones who will be impacted if they don't is them.

If I were sick with COVID, it wouldn't go unnoticed. I am the at risk population. I'm one of the ones who is supposed to die from it, should I catch it.

Post armed veterans in the schools to protect the children, and regulate the access to assault rifles by the mentally ill. Leave the rest of us alone, we aren't bothering anyone.


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ShaggyPlays
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09 Jun 2022, 12:36 am

Ah yes lets just set up armed guards at schools because that isn't dystopian at all. It is very backward to me that you are worried about a possible threat that not only hasn't happened but probably won't happen vs threats that are happening currently that are killing people actively. Again I reiterate I am not saying take away people's guns, I am saying if you are going to own a gun you should be trained as they aren't toys. We have to train and have a license to drive a boat, fish, hunt, drive a car, and we don't make a huge fuss about it. However, we want to set some restrictions and regulations on deadly weapons so kids don't need armed guards to go to school without fear of getting shot and we suddenly think the government is trying to make a power move to take away our rights. Gun owners think that we are out to get them, the government is out to get them, and if they don't own a gun suddenly they are in danger of losing all of their rights despite many countries survive just fine and have rights without armed civilians. I don't understand how someone can be unafraid of a deadly virus that if we allow to spread can mutate and possibly become even more deadly yet terrified that if they surrender a deadly weapon a majority of law abiding citizens don't need that the government will just suddenly become a nazi regime.



ShaggyPlays
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09 Jun 2022, 1:30 am

I am just going to say one final thing because I know I am just never going to be able to understand why people are the way the are and trying wrap my head around certain concepts will only agitate me further. I feel as though I am getting very heated without meaning to, when I can't understand something it agitates me greatly and I don't wish to take that out on anyone.

Regardless of whether or not I agree or understand you or anyone else's position on firearms and what should be done about this crisis, I hope that we are able to find a solution that can drastically reduce if not stop this horrible mass shooting epidemic. I respect your opinion on firearms and the 2nd amendment even if I do not agree with it and I am sorry for being aggressive. I try very hard to understand things from multiple sides, and sometimes when I cannot see the logic in something it drives me crazy trying to understand how someone else can.

I wish you all well and hope we can stay safe in these unsure times.



Persephone29
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09 Jun 2022, 9:02 am

I believe that I stated, regulate the ability of people with mental illnesses to access guns, especially assault rifles. That is a nod to the need to 'do something.' Having your friends and teachers get shot up at school is a lot more dystopian than armed, friendly military personnel being posted at a school for protection. That's another nod to the need to 'do something.'

Nowhere in this discussion did I say that nothing should be done, everyone is about protecting the children. But, they still want funding for Ukraine, they still want programs for the disabled (welfare, food, housing), they want free abortions, but suggest something like an armed guard at a school (which might require funding) and it's too much.
The solution must always be to take something away from people who are not hurting anyone, not doing anything wrong, in order to limit the access to guns for the ones who are doing something wrong. That's not gonna work for me, thank God I live in a Republic with a few socialist programs. As opposed to a Democracy....

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

Whether you think it is a Republic or not is irrelevant. It was founded at a Republic, there is reference to that in the Pledge. And I'm carrying on as if... You don't get to quash me, or my ideals and way of life for what you consider to be the greater good. Especially when I haven't done a damn thing to anyone, ever, in my entire life.


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magz
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09 Jun 2022, 9:22 am

The problem with armed guards at schools is, there are also grocery stores. Popular tourist plots. Train stations and bus stops. Playgrounds. Cafeterias. Gas stations. Churches. Hospitals. Theatres.
One can't fund armed guards for every potentially crowded place.

The mental health issues of mass shooters are often undiagnosed before the shootings - and that's another problem. If diagnosed mental illness would mean restrictions but undiagnosed mental illness would not, people would avoid diagnoses even more than they do now.


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Persephone29
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09 Jun 2022, 9:47 am

magz wrote:
The problem with armed guards at schools is, there are also grocery stores. Popular tourist plots. Train stations and bus stops. Playgrounds. Cafeterias. Gas stations. Churches. Hospitals. Theatres.
One can't fund armed guards for every potentially crowded place.

The mental health issues of mass shooters are often undiagnosed before the shootings - and that's another problem. If diagnosed mental illness would mean restrictions but undiagnosed mental illness would not, people would avoid diagnoses even more than they do now.



That's nothing a little concealed carry can't solve. More and more shooters are being stopped in places that don't ban fire arms... Ironically, the places that ban fire arms are the places that frequently leave the doors wide open and no one is trained to stop the shooter. Once the person is inside, in a classroom, they have the upper hand against people who come later. If there were armed personnel already in there, it would make a difference. What I'm saying probably sounds outrageous to you, perhaps it is. But, this is the only life I've ever known. There is an element of desensitization that has happened to me.

Did you see my earlier post? There are 50+ million more guns than people in the US, and we have no idea where they are.


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magz
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09 Jun 2022, 10:10 am

Persephone29 wrote:
Did you see my earlier post? There are 50+ million more guns than people in the US, and we have no idea where they are.
Yes, I do find it another problem - though, the mass shooters I'm reading about are ones who go to a store, buy guns and go use them.


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