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Kraichgauer
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13 Jun 2022, 12:15 am

cyberdad wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
I think he is inextricably linked to Jan 6th, yes, but not necessarily to the MAGA movement and take-over of the Republican party on an on-going basis. He tapped into and vocalized something that was already there.


I'm having difficulty separating the transformation in the 2022 Republican party to the influence of Trump?
Yes I agree they are tapping into something that's already there. The US shares something in common with China where the factors for social and political unrest are obvious but suppressed. I seriously think the Obama years nurtured a seething resentment in the red state populations that has manifested in distorted thinking and externalising behavior, Trump's emergence in 2016 drew the tea party people like moths to a flame.


It's been there in the GOP longer than the Obama years. It's been there ever since the Republicans invited white southern Democrats into their fold by opposing voting rights between the Nixon and Reagan administrations. For the longest time, the mainstream GOP tried ignoring this new element without realizing that their party was gradually becoming transformed into something ugly and reactionary.


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13 Jun 2022, 12:57 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
I think he is inextricably linked to Jan 6th, yes, but not necessarily to the MAGA movement and take-over of the Republican party on an on-going basis. He tapped into and vocalized something that was already there.


I'm having difficulty separating the transformation in the 2022 Republican party to the influence of Trump?
Yes I agree they are tapping into something that's already there. The US shares something in common with China where the factors for social and political unrest are obvious but suppressed. I seriously think the Obama years nurtured a seething resentment in the red state populations that has manifested in distorted thinking and externalising behavior, Trump's emergence in 2016 drew the tea party people like moths to a flame.


It's been there in the GOP longer than the Obama years. It's been there ever since the Republicans invited white southern Democrats into their fold by opposing voting rights between the Nixon and Reagan administrations. For the longest time, the mainstream GOP tried ignoring this new element without realizing that their party was gradually becoming transformed into something ugly and reactionary.


Yes this are the deep roots of the sentiment tapped currently by the MAGA circus. Like all roads lead to Rome, all roads in US politics seems to go back to slavery/lynching/Jim Crow

I see the virulent anti-communism, anti_LGBTQI, anti-environment, pro-guns and an assortment of republican values seem to be overt external manifestations of suppressing something intergenerationally bad in the American psyche that I think conflicts with the christian puritanism that pervaded the founding fathers and the early American settlements.

Don't get me wrong, I have the highest regard for Quakers and other reformist christians, but the mainstream protestant movements in the US has created a something of a monster in the psyche of middle America.



Kraichgauer
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13 Jun 2022, 1:10 am

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
I think he is inextricably linked to Jan 6th, yes, but not necessarily to the MAGA movement and take-over of the Republican party on an on-going basis. He tapped into and vocalized something that was already there.


I'm having difficulty separating the transformation in the 2022 Republican party to the influence of Trump?
Yes I agree they are tapping into something that's already there. The US shares something in common with China where the factors for social and political unrest are obvious but suppressed. I seriously think the Obama years nurtured a seething resentment in the red state populations that has manifested in distorted thinking and externalising behavior, Trump's emergence in 2016 drew the tea party people like moths to a flame.


It's been there in the GOP longer than the Obama years. It's been there ever since the Republicans invited white southern Democrats into their fold by opposing voting rights between the Nixon and Reagan administrations. For the longest time, the mainstream GOP tried ignoring this new element without realizing that their party was gradually becoming transformed into something ugly and reactionary.


Yes this are the deep roots of the sentiment tapped currently by the MAGA circus. Like all roads lead to Rome, all roads in US politics seems to go back to slavery/lynching/Jim Crow

I see the virulent anti-communism, anti_LGBTQI, anti-environment, pro-guns and an assortment of republican values seem to be overt external manifestations of suppressing something intergenerationally bad in the American psyche that I think conflicts with the christian puritanism that pervaded the founding fathers and the early American settlements.

Don't get me wrong, I have the highest regard for Quakers and other reformist christians, but the mainstream protestant movements in the US has created a something of a monster in the psyche of middle America.


I think we might have differing views of what constitutes "mainline Protestantism." I believe what you're referring to are evangelicals, whose theology tends to be very literal and intolerant, with "decision theology," also with an emphasis on personal experience and perfectionism. Mainline Protestants can be either theologically liberal, moderate, or conservative, but outside of civil rights don't try to alter society into "God's kingdom on earth."


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cyberdad
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13 Jun 2022, 1:12 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
I think he is inextricably linked to Jan 6th, yes, but not necessarily to the MAGA movement and take-over of the Republican party on an on-going basis. He tapped into and vocalized something that was already there.


I'm having difficulty separating the transformation in the 2022 Republican party to the influence of Trump?
Yes I agree they are tapping into something that's already there. The US shares something in common with China where the factors for social and political unrest are obvious but suppressed. I seriously think the Obama years nurtured a seething resentment in the red state populations that has manifested in distorted thinking and externalising behavior, Trump's emergence in 2016 drew the tea party people like moths to a flame.


It's been there in the GOP longer than the Obama years. It's been there ever since the Republicans invited white southern Democrats into their fold by opposing voting rights between the Nixon and Reagan administrations. For the longest time, the mainstream GOP tried ignoring this new element without realizing that their party was gradually becoming transformed into something ugly and reactionary.


Yes this are the deep roots of the sentiment tapped currently by the MAGA circus. Like all roads lead to Rome, all roads in US politics seems to go back to slavery/lynching/Jim Crow

I see the virulent anti-communism, anti_LGBTQI, anti-environment, pro-guns and an assortment of republican values seem to be overt external manifestations of suppressing something intergenerationally bad in the American psyche that I think conflicts with the christian puritanism that pervaded the founding fathers and the early American settlements.

Don't get me wrong, I have the highest regard for Quakers and other reformist christians, but the mainstream protestant movements in the US has created a something of a monster in the psyche of middle America.


I think we might have differing views of what constitutes "mainline Protestantism." I believe what you're referring to are evangelicals, whose theology tends to be very literal and intolerant, with "decision theology," also with an emphasis on personal experience and perfectionism. Mainline Protestants can be either theologically liberal, moderate, or conservative, but outside of civil rights don't try to alter society into "God's kingdom on earth."


Yes you are right. I am referring to the evangelicals. My parents were Anglicans but switched here to Weslyan due to their work as missionaries and more progressive stance on some things the Anglicans are less able to adjust to.



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13 Jun 2022, 1:39 am

Funny to imagine anyone else being more progressive than Anglicans! Or is my thinking being influenced by American Episcopalians?


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13 Jun 2022, 1:57 am

American Episcopalians are so progressive I wouldn't be surprised if I walked into one of their churches and found a gay bar and a weed shop inside.



cyberdad
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13 Jun 2022, 2:10 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Funny to imagine anyone else being more progressive than Anglicans! Or is my thinking being influenced by American Episcopalians?


The Anglicans and Scottish protestants here in Australia are the the conservatives. Catholics over many years supported the Australian Labor Party (ALP) as many iriash, Italian and other immigrants are catholic, However as time has gone by the catholic church here is also a supporter of conservative political movements due to recent changes toward communism, gay rights etc...



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13 Jun 2022, 2:11 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:
American Episcopalians are so progressive I wouldn't be surprised if I walked into one of their churches and found a gay bar and a weed shop inside.


The biggest issue in the Australian Anglican church has been the ordination of female and gay priests. For the catholics it's been child abuse at the hands of priests.



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14 Jun 2022, 12:40 pm

Listened to a 19min summary of round 2 this morning, currently half way through listening to round 2 itself. Might listen to the rest before I go out today. No surprises at all, really.. but it's nice to hear Barr speaking truth - perhaps some who identify as republicans/conservatives/trump supporters will listen and realize trump lied and all these other career politicians/feds are in fact telling the truth about what did and didn't happen. The court of public opinion is almost more important than the court of law.. I mean, judges can send a man to prison.. but Millions of people can destroy a country if they believe BS.


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14 Jun 2022, 2:14 pm

Zero surprises. More of the same through the end. But still very important for people to hear, especially if at any point they believed trump's lies.


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14 Jun 2022, 3:44 pm



i Have A FRiEnD Who had a motto That

if Someone Will Lie to You They Will Steal

From You Too; Seemed A Little Harsh to me;

AS Humans Do Tend to Lie, Overall; However, in this Case
of the 'Second Hearing'

About the 'Trump
Dark Fiasco,' Begging
For Bucks in Emails for
A Defense Fund For His Own
Negligent Behavior in Inciting A
Deadly Insurrection; Yes, FOR A Defense Fund that
Still Does Not Exist And Used in Part to Fund A 2 Minute, 60 Thousand
Dollar Motivational Speech by His Son's Girlfriend, Before the Deadly
Insurrection Proceeded as An Assault on Our Capital And
Attempt to Damage an Integral Part of Our Representative
Democracy; Yes, And in Doing So, Milking A Quarter Of
A Billion Dollars of Gas Money; Out of Many, Many, Loyal

'Minions'; Many of Who Now Still Vaunt Him to the Level
of A 'Religious Figure' (Like 'The Rise of Gru') Who Can Do no Wrong in Terms

of Demagogue Cult of Personality, and Literal 'Apotheosis,' All 'God' Sent
in 'Divine DarK AS Such;' Yet as i mentioned 'Several Instances Before;' NO,

Is it Really Surprising As Many of Them Already Worship A Story of An All Loving, Merciful,
Forgiving, Turn The Other Cheek, Love The Enemy Same As God Whole, Man God Who Changes
into A Worse Evil than 'Hannibal The Cannibal,' Regarding Sheep in His Flock By Story At Least
Then Who Changes Once Loyal Do-Gooding Sheep into Goats, if they Screw Up and Do Not
Clothe the Naked Homeless Dude on The Street And Give His Starving Self A Free Bite to Eat;

And Yes, Burns 'em Forever, Burns 'em Forever, Burns 'em Forever; True, Just Fires Them That

Way Forever

If they don't
comply With
That Demagogue
Cult of Personality Rule;

It Does Seem in this Case That When
'This Person' Tells Biggest Lies to You; He
Will Indeed Steal From You; And Not Only That This

Offers Even More Evidence That the Worst Human Pandemic
Through HiSToRY IS Still the Pandemic of Ignorance in Human Style That And
Who Continues to Harm, Rape, Maim, And Kill Folks, and The Rest of Nature Most;

Yes, Ranging From A Pandemic Sponsored in Part by Trump's Ignorance; Yes, Still on
'5th Avenue,' With His Minions Picking Up His Habit of Going On to Die Unmasked
in a Deadliest Part of the Delta Variant of A Pandemic, While A Million Eventually

Fell to Their
Dead, Dead,
Dead, Death

ThiS Way, in Part, in Ignorance; Yes,
For Real Yet Again All that Quarter
of A Billion Dollars of Gas Money

Just P8SSinG iT Away iN the Wind; Just Gone,

Just Gone to the 'Apotheosis of Donald J. Trump';

HiSToRY Shows, Folks Have A Hard Time in Letting
Go of A Cult of Personality; my God, Some Folks Still
Believe Elvis and John F Kennedy Jr, Still Lives to Return to

Airports to
Come Again
AS SUCH NoW
'in Glory' Even

Perhaps to Judge
the Living And The Dead

As Part of Another Conspiracy Theory too...

This is The Condition of 'the Condition,' i've Observed
Now in Just Another 'Trump Town USA' for 62 Years Now
As Just Another Usual Participant Anthropology Observer,
Even Before i had the Ability to Speak at 4 Years Old; You

Get Used to
'The Locals;'

Yet You Always
BeWare of THeir Sway
to Be BamboozLed By

Used Car Sales Folks AS Such;

True, really, i'm 'The (A) One' Ya Want in the
Room With 'You', When You Actually Face

the Used Car Sales Person,

On Every Judgement
Day Someone Pulls
the Blinds/Veils of Ignorance
Over YouR EYeS And You Swallow
the Hook, Bait, AND SINKER WHOLE...

Yet of Course, For Folks Who Still Insist
On Buying An Orange Lemon, What Will You

Do Yet
Do Your
Best to Stay
Out of Forests
Face Palms Thick;

And This is Why i Establish 'REAL
Eden' Behind A Board-on-Board Fence

So Far Away From the Locals at Least
on One Side of the Yard Who Aren't Part

of my
Family
Who Do NOT
Tell Lies or Steal...

(Squeezing All 244 Pounds of me Through
This Fiber Optic Cable At the Speed of Love
Globally AS Such to Rest my Dancing Feet too)

Some of these Folks Have Already Shown
Their Will to Die And Have Died For Trump
on A '5th Avenue' of Their Own Volunteer Preference;

And Yes, Some of the Remaining Ones Are Still Willing to

Give Trump
THeir All, No
Matter How
Far He Continues to

Fall in 'The Other Place' Now...

Cult of Personality 101; A Fascinating
Human CuLTuRaL Study indeed; 'Eve,' Go
Ahead and Put the Popcorn in the Microwave,

You've Got

More Human
Reality Shows to
Watch and Report
Back to me on, Hehe...

Anyway, i Suppose i'll Take
'my Car' to a Car Wash Today;
It Doesn't Appear This Town
is Gonna Get The Enema it Needs Still Today...

And They Still Appear to Be Far, Far Away From Ready
For 'a Load of me';

Even if they've
Already Seen the
Lightening of me Dance, hehe;

Verily, the Thunder Will Likely
Still Be too Much to Hear in Their
Literal Lying Believing Ears Still in

'Rational Illusions And Or Delusions'

of Literally

Believing

Mostly In 'Left
Brain' Processing

WayS in Grim Story Tales...

Renaming SH8T Pie Paradise

or Hell After Death....

Indeed THeiR
Are So Many
Ways to Slice
And Dice Life
While Trying to Even Live now...

Many 'Sheep And Or Goats' Never Ever, Never Now
Do; Sooner
Than Soon; Sadly So Much 'These Days' STiLL NoW...

Don't Be So
Sure THere

is Fire in Hell Now;

MoraL oF A STorY iNdeed...

As Now Truly Lasts Forever Now...
Choose A Place Ya Love to Live Most

Location

Location

Location STiLL For Real Now...
Still SMiLing in 'the Other Place' i Am..:)



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16 Jun 2022, 12:25 pm

Episode 3 started airing live 20 mins ago. I'm about 15 mins or so late, so not quite watching live in real time. I'll probably watch/listen to all of it before really doing anything productive or leaving the house.

This miniseries is the greatest addition to the trumpmerica soap opera since the wild daily headlines of early covidtimes.


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16 Jun 2022, 12:47 pm

This is a great distraction from more serious issues, like hyper inflation, high gas prices, and the looming recession. But hey, Americans are very easily propagandized and manipulated.

So when the trial is over, what's going to change in our country? We're still going to have the same corrupt system, and the same oligarchs manipulating our elected officials. But I'm sure we'll all feel better as we continue to circle the drain and wait for a worse Trump down the road.


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16 Jun 2022, 1:10 pm

Grr, the broadcast I was streaming cut off and restarted a couple times :/ seems the "Now This," stream is broken. Might seek out a different stream rn, or might just kinda table it and revisit it late night or something - get a few things done midday instead. Hmm. I guess time will tell.. I was thinking I'd listen to it, Then be productive the rest of the day.. but life isn't working out that way and maybe it's a sign I should get my ass in gear and accomplish some things sooner instead, Earn my soap opera time at night kind of thing. Maybe.

VegetableMan wrote:
This is a great distraction from more serious issues, like hyper inflation, high gas prices, and the looming recession. But hey, Americans are very easily propagandized and manipulated.

So when the trial is over, what's going to change in our country? We're still going to have the same corrupt system, and the same oligarchs manipulating our elected officials. But I'm sure we'll all feel better as we continue to circle the drain and wait for a worse Trump down the road.


That sounds like right leaning news media talking points to me. "The attempted overthrow of the US gov't is no big deal e'erybody.. 'mericans don't care about that old news anymore. Hey look, gas prices!!" :roll: Agreed, Americans are easily propagandized and manipulated.. look how easily they're convinced that gas prices (which aren't controlled by potus) are more important than the continuation of their own democracy.

I think there are two hopes with the hearings:

1. That as many people as possible who still support the former guy tune in and realize they were duped and he's a liar, cheat, fraud, thief etc and no longer worthy of their time/money/energy.

2. That they lay out the criminality of trump and his gang's activities so plainly and clearly that it forces the hand of the DOJ to press a bunch of charges and have criminal trials run their course and see what comes of them. I recall seeing an interview with some retired official of some kind after the first hearing and he said that some think that the DOJ pressing charges would be a partisan act, but that after seeing/hearing the evidence laid out, it's his belief that not charging trump would be a partisan act in favour of trump/republicans because he/they so clearly broke so many laws. I'm of the camp that hopes he's right.. that it's so blatantly obvious that criminal lines were crossed that the DOJ ends up having to charge the orange guy in order to preserve the integrity of the DOJ itself.


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16 Jun 2022, 1:48 pm

^^Oh, the takeover of the U.S. government occured decades ago. You don't seem to understand that. A bunch of idiots storming the capital just isn't that important to me.

Like I said, it's a major distraction from the issues we really need to address. You're Canadian, so I'll give you a pass for your ignorance.


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Kraichgauer
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16 Jun 2022, 2:57 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
^^Oh, the takeover of the U.S. government occured decades ago. You don't seem to understand that. A bunch of idiots storming the capital just isn't that important to me.

Like I said, it's a major distraction from the issues we really need to address. You're Canadian, so I'll give you a pass for your ignorance.


We know from a CI inside the Proud Boys that that terrorist organization was planning to murder both Pence and Pelosi. We know that a redneck representative (Loudermilk) from Georgia had taken a group on a tour of the congressional offices the day before, taking pictures of specific offices and entrances and tunnels - and then these same persons attended the riot the next day, threatening Pelosi, AOC, and Naddler by name on a self made phone video. That's a huge difference.
I have to think that if this was the Dems being investigated, you'd be chewing a rug in outrage over their crimes.


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