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Kraichgauer
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17 Jun 2022, 10:52 pm

auntblabby wrote:
i still believe that trumpy will ultimately escape all earthly justice. but as the good book says, "god is not mocked..."


If he's reduced to just surviving on his Presidential pension, with having his empire taken from him, justice would have been served.


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auntblabby
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17 Jun 2022, 11:25 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
i still believe that trumpy will ultimately escape all earthly justice. but as the good book says, "god is not mocked..."


If he's reduced to just surviving on his Presidential pension, with having his empire taken from him, justice would have been served.

that's still too GD good for the no-good bastard. after all the harm he's done to his fellow humans, he needs to be scrubbing toilets for the rest of his life.



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18 Jun 2022, 12:16 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
What kind a press do we have now? It's certainly not a,fair and honest one, where truth is valued. It's owned by about a half dozen corporations and a dozen or so billionaires who control the narrative Americans digest.


Loud, noisy, more interested in what sells than in facts, but also DIVERSE, running the full gambit of interpretations and opinions. Meaning all the facts and sides are out there, mixed into the exaggerations (and for some sources, lies), and it is possible to use critical thinking skills to figure what the truth most likely looks like. Even intelligent people with good critical thinking skills can still make wildly opposite assessments, but hasn't it always been like that?

It's the blessing and the curse of a free press, but would you really prefer to be in a country with a state controlled press, where only the side the government wants you to see makes its way into the discourse? If you think the narrative is controlled by limited interests now, try accessing information in an autocracy. It feels simple, peaceful and predictable, even it is often a lie, but getting there carries a huge cost. A cost I absolutely am NOT willing to bear.

We've got some issues to figure out in the way press - and social media - currently works in our country, but the pendulum is still swinging, and changes haven't stopped. The pendulum doesn't stop swinging until it finds its natural center.

Quote:
I don't believe the system can be reformed from within, since no good candidates have a chance to be elected. It's going to take massive resistance by the people, mainly to stop voting for Democrats and Republicans .

Having faith in our current political system is dangerous, actually. It's delusional thinking.


What is the alternative? The only decent alternative, really, is moving to another country you think has a better system. Revolution and insurrection are messy and inappropriate; usually making things worse (the American Revolution was more an exception than a rule, but not exactly pretty, either). Self-correction may not happen within our lifetimes, but the system has been massively corrupted before, and it DID recover. There is only so far things can swing before the voters figure it out, and only so far before idealists find solutions to try. There can be comfort in listening to American history professors talk about what really happened, far beyond what we ever learned in school, because you see how distressing patterns don't last forever.

None of that means we should all just sit on our hands and wait. Get involved in the process, ways big and small. One swing of the pendulum is having its moment because of grass roots investments made decades ago. I'm seeing a very politically different group (one I personally favor much more) making its investments today. Life is about making mistakes and learning. That has never been limited to one's personal life; it also applies to communities, businesses, and governments. I see proposals for change ALL the time. There are people out there testing alternatives and pushing them into the discourse. Most may not be feasible today, but nothing is permanent.

And, whether or not anyone believes the Jan 6th hearings are positive, it is part of the process. Gather information, share it. Get people thinking. It isn't an end so much as a process. It's when we give up that we're lost, not when we can't find the door.



While we don't have a "state controlled media, " it is controlled by corporate power. If a journalist deviates from official narrative, they get the axe. That's not much better.

The alternative is to stop playing the game of lesser of two evils. At this point, there is no lesser evil. Both parties are invested in maintaining this corrupt system. It's going to take a massive resistance to the game we've been programmed to play. I don't see any other option at this point. If no good politicians can rise to the top, then where is the hope? It's a rigged system.


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18 Jun 2022, 1:27 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
What kind a press do we have now? It's certainly not a,fair and honest one, where truth is valued. It's owned by about a half dozen corporations and a dozen or so billionaires who control the narrative Americans digest.



but the Monkeys!

you do LIE - you FAKE NEWS

we NEED the press or the Monkeys will remain under a POX

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/a_pox_on.

Until you accept the current press, the WHO will be tied up with this rebranding instead of fighting covid and s**t, so your killing gramma, snap out of it jerk. :jester:



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18 Jun 2022, 5:09 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
What kind a press do we have now? It's certainly not a,fair and honest one, where truth is valued. It's owned by about a half dozen corporations and a dozen or so billionaires who control the narrative Americans digest.


Loud, noisy, more interested in what sells than in facts, but also DIVERSE, running the full gambit of interpretations and opinions. Meaning all the facts and sides are out there, mixed into the exaggerations (and for some sources, lies), and it is possible to use critical thinking skills to figure what the truth most likely looks like. Even intelligent people with good critical thinking skills can still make wildly opposite assessments, but hasn't it always been like that?

It's the blessing and the curse of a free press, but would you really prefer to be in a country with a state controlled press, where only the side the government wants you to see makes its way into the discourse? If you think the narrative is controlled by limited interests now, try accessing information in an autocracy. It feels simple, peaceful and predictable, even it is often a lie, but getting there carries a huge cost. A cost I absolutely am NOT willing to bear.

We've got some issues to figure out in the way press - and social media - currently works in our country, but the pendulum is still swinging, and changes haven't stopped. The pendulum doesn't stop swinging until it finds its natural center.

Quote:
I don't believe the system can be reformed from within, since no good candidates have a chance to be elected. It's going to take massive resistance by the people, mainly to stop voting for Democrats and Republicans .

Having faith in our current political system is dangerous, actually. It's delusional thinking.


What is the alternative? The only decent alternative, really, is moving to another country you think has a better system. Revolution and insurrection are messy and inappropriate; usually making things worse (the American Revolution was more an exception than a rule, but not exactly pretty, either). Self-correction may not happen within our lifetimes, but the system has been massively corrupted before, and it DID recover. There is only so far things can swing before the voters figure it out, and only so far before idealists find solutions to try. There can be comfort in listening to American history professors talk about what really happened, far beyond what we ever learned in school, because you see how distressing patterns don't last forever.

None of that means we should all just sit on our hands and wait. Get involved in the process, ways big and small. One swing of the pendulum is having its moment because of grass roots investments made decades ago. I'm seeing a very politically different group (one I personally favor much more) making its investments today. Life is about making mistakes and learning. That has never been limited to one's personal life; it also applies to communities, businesses, and governments. I see proposals for change ALL the time. There are people out there testing alternatives and pushing them into the discourse. Most may not be feasible today, but nothing is permanent.

And, whether or not anyone believes the Jan 6th hearings are positive, it is part of the process. Gather information, share it. Get people thinking. It isn't an end so much as a process. It's when we give up that we're lost, not when we can't find the door.



While we don't have a "state controlled media, " it is controlled by corporate power. If a journalist deviates from official narrative, they get the axe. That's not much better.

The alternative is to stop playing the game of lesser of two evils. At this point, there is no lesser evil. Both parties are invested in maintaining this corrupt system. It's going to take a massive resistance to the game we've been programmed to play. I don't see any other option at this point. If no good politicians can rise to the top, then where is the hope? It's a rigged system.


You are missing my point. The powers you see as being in control do NOT share a single viewpoint or agenda, and that diversity continues to allow all viewpoints to make their way into the discourse. When they start to share a single vision, that is when we worry.


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20 Jun 2022, 2:31 pm

It’s nice to see a lot of different headlines about potential state and federal charges. It’s be quite enjoyable to see him get roasted in multiple jurisdictions and have them all fight over where he’ll be serving time. 8)


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22 Jun 2022, 8:52 am

I've watched all the Jan 6 Committee sessions with great interest but I have to say, the 4th session was the most powerful, and one of the most powerful statements I've seen on any topic.

It's the first time I really feel I understand, at least in part, the sentiment "proud to be American", and the urge of all decent Americans that the system is worth preserving, that it must be preserved.

It also served to highlight with a searing clarity just how malign, how dangerous, and how utterly un-American Trump and his cohorts are.
This foul, corrupting influence and the terrible excuse for a human being at its head must be defeated and sent back to the festering, dark void from which it came. Surely none of it should be tolerated in the same daylight as the majority of forward-looking Americans.

Any system of Democracy has its detractors, its bad actors, its would-be destructors - God knows the UK currently has enough of those - and they are a necessary companion in any functional Democracy, but this? This brazen attempt to pull it all apart and establish some sort of foul Trumpocracy built upon the massive, rampant ego of one man and a web of transparent lies?

It is said, and I think all evidence supports it, that everything Trump touches dies.
This cannot, must not, apply to the USA.


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22 Jun 2022, 10:22 am

OoooOooo.. I didn't realize episode 4 was released already. I've never read the schedule - just realized each time they're released when there's a bunch of vids on fb watch about them. Makes sense why the clips playing this morning are from a hearing I don't recall seeing yet - must be from yesterday's "4." Wasn't online much at all yesterday and have a busy day/early eve tdy but maybe I'll make a point of making it my evening wind-down endutainment tonight. I think the weather is going to be grey skies/rain, so I probably won't be out late and can make the time to listen to it tonight. Chances are my response will be "Yip.. in agreement with these folks. trump is garbage. Keep him out of office/possibly in jail k thx."


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22 Jun 2022, 11:43 am

Cornflake wrote:
I've watched all the Jan 6 Committee sessions with great interest but I have to say, the 4th session was the most powerful, and one of the most powerful statements I've seen on any topic.

It's the first time I really feel I understand, at least in part, the sentiment "proud to be American", and the urge of all decent Americans that the system is worth preserving, that it must be preserved.

It also served to highlight with a searing clarity just how malign, how dangerous, and how utterly un-American Trump and his cohorts are.
This foul, corrupting influence and the terrible excuse for a human being at its head must be defeated and sent back to the festering, dark void from which it came. Surely none if it should be tolerated in the same daylight as the majority of forward-looking Americans.

Any system of Democracy has its detractors, its bad actors, its would-be destructors - God knows the UK currently has enough of those - and they are a necessary companion in any functional Democracy, but this? This brazen attempt to pull it all apart and establish some sort of foul Trumpocracy built upon the massive, rampant ego of one man and a web of transparent lies?

It is said, and I think all evidence supports it, that everything Trump touches dies.
This cannot, must not, apply to the USA.

I have been reading about it rather then watching them because there are priorities at home combined with autistic related time management issues. The previous are contributing factors but the main one is I made my judgement about Trump and his willingness to subvert the republic in 2015. I was dreading something like that prior to the 2016 election. His being a sore winner validated my concerns now about 2020. Every action of his from election night 2020 to 1/6 deepened my sense of foreboding. That still did not prepare me for 1/6. Outside of 9/11 that was by far the my most unnerving day as an American. Watching the slickly produced hearings would have added detail, a bunch of Oh my God moments but not changed my fundamental understanding of the event. Right now my focus is on the ongoing coup and the expected results of the mid terms that will greatly enhance the chances of the coup being successful.


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22 Jun 2022, 3:38 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
OoooOooo.. I didn't realize episode 4 was released already.
Yep - and #5 is this Thursday.
I read there are seven sessions proposed for this block, with more to follow later in the year.

They're all posted to the Jan 6 Committee's website: https://january6th.house.gov/legislation/hearings, but searching YouTube with just "Jan 6" is enough to find them there.

ASPartOfMe wrote:
The previous {sessions} are contributing factors but the main one is I made my judgement about Trump and his willingness to subvert the republic in 2015. I was dreading something like that prior to the 2016 election.
It's shocking to have the infantile machinations of this man exposed and laid out like this, even after seeing all his public clown-show appearances and self-centered ramblings.
It's also shocking to see once again that which we've been mostly spared from seeing since he left office - himself behind a microphone in front of a crowd. What a terrifying and deeply concerning spectacle that is.

Quote:
His being a sore winner validated my concerns now about 2020. Every action of his from election night 2020 to 1/6 deepened my sense of foreboding. That still did not prepare me for 1/6.
Agreed. It was obvious from the outset (to very many, at least) that this was someone totally unconcerned with truth and process - yet the belief appears have been that would somehow fall away once he took office and something presidential would emerge to take its place. But instead it simply got worse and the immense power of the office was subverted to serve his own ends.

Quote:
Outside of 9/11 that was by far the my most unnerving day as an American.
Pretty much the same here as a non-American. Like 9/11 it was one of those moments where everything got dropped to sit, open-mouthed in disbelief and shock, watching TV as the events unfolded. I was surprised to hear later that most of my (very non-political) family had watched it live and felt the same way.

Quote:
Watching the slickly produced hearings would have added detail, a bunch of Oh my God moments but not changed my fundamental understanding of the event. Right now my focus is on the ongoing coup and the expected results of the mid terms that will greatly enhance the chances of the coup being successful.
There were previously unseen videos shown, which were shocking enough on their own - but coupled with the testimony, with much of that from those inside the White House, it all shows just how planned it was and how close things came to a complete collapse.

And of course the threat is still present, developing, and to my astonishment involves many serving Republicans who are actively supporting Trump and his barefaced lies - still, in the face of dismissed legal challenges and irrefutable evidence proving they are lies. Yet there they are, working to destabilise the Republic from the inside. Like an expanding oil slick their influence has reached beyond Trump's main gripe and resulted in some very troubling voting reforms.

If Trump gets the presidency again I think the fiction of "The Handmaid's Tale" will become fact.
There is nothing good about that.


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22 Jun 2022, 4:18 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Outside of 9/11 that was by far the my most unnerving day as an American.

9/11 has made flying as a passenger a nightmare for the past 20 years and counting.

There are marks still left behind by the destruction of the last BLM riot in my city from 2 years ago.

There was very little property damage during the so-called "January 6th riot". I called up a girl who was my *ahem* interest at the time, an IT project manager at DoJ in DC, she was stuck there during curfew, I offered to drive her out of the city to stay with her parents for the week, as I had a DoD (US Cyber Command) permit excusing me from curfews, she said it was quiet and safe in the city, she was just playing sessions of WoW with her clan instead of going to work.

So what's the real impact of January 6th events? Some (amusingly) terrified congressmen still talking about it, and you going nuts watching TV in your parents' basement?

I see no valid comparison to other major events around the country in recent years. It's a bit of a nothingburger.



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22 Jun 2022, 4:31 pm

r00tb33r wrote:
So what's the real impact of January 6th events? Some (amusingly) terrified congressmen still talking about it, and you going nuts watching TV in your parents' basement?.


Oh I think you might have missed the part where the rioters were armed and stormed a political building with the intent to lynch various US congressmen and women, And you also missed the but about many of their number being made up of serving military, police and FBI and various militia with weapons training. By the sound of things you also missed that members of the GOP were giving rioters tours of the facilities giving them plans/directions for the fastest routes to reach Nancy Pelosi.

Some of those hiding under the BLM banners caused a public nuisance and building damage. But the Jan 6 rioters all committed acts of treason and sedition. Might be why so many ended up in jail (and that number continues to grow).

Does that make it clearer on the difference?



Last edited by cyberdad on 22 Jun 2022, 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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22 Jun 2022, 4:33 pm

cyberdad wrote:
r00tb33r wrote:
So what's the real impact of January 6th events? Some (amusingly) terrified congressmen still talking about it, and you going nuts watching TV in your parents' basement?.


Oh I think you might have missed the part where the rioters were armed and stormed a political building with the intent to lynch various US congressmen and women, And you also missed the but about many of their number being made up of serving military, police and FBI and various militia with weapons training. By the sound of things you also missed that members of the GOP were giving rioters tours of the facilities giving them plans/directions for the fastest routes to reach Nancy Pelosi.

And? What's the damage?

...not to mention that some of those things didn't actually happen, so those bits are definitely in the "allegedly" pile.



Last edited by r00tb33r on 22 Jun 2022, 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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22 Jun 2022, 4:34 pm

r00tb33r wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
r00tb33r wrote:
So what's the real impact of January 6th events? Some (amusingly) terrified congressmen still talking about it, and you going nuts watching TV in your parents' basement?.


Oh I think you might have missed the part where the rioters were armed and stormed a political building with the intent to lynch various US congressmen and women, And you also missed the but about many of their number being made up of serving military, police and FBI and various militia with weapons training. By the sound of things you also missed that members of the GOP were giving rioters tours of the facilities giving them plans/directions for the fastest routes to reach Nancy Pelosi.

And? What's the damage?


The damage isn't just $$ it's the destruction of democracy + treason



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22 Jun 2022, 5:43 pm

r00tb33r wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Outside of 9/11 that was by far the my most unnerving day as an American.

9/11 has made flying as a passenger a nightmare for the past 20 years and counting.

There are marks still left behind by the destruction of the last BLM riot in my city from 2 years ago.

There was very little property damage during the so-called "January 6th riot". I called up a girl who was my *ahem* interest at the time, an IT project manager at DoJ in DC, she was stuck there during curfew, I offered to drive her out of the city to stay with her parents for the week, as I had a DoD (US Cyber https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... -is-over1/) permit excusing me from curfews, she said it was quiet and safe in the city, she was just playing sessions of WoW with her clan instead of going to work.

So what's the real impact of January 6th events? Some (amusingly) terrified congressmen still talking about it, and you going nuts watching TV in your parents' basement?

I see no valid comparison to other major events around the country in recent years. It's a bit of a nothingburger.


1. I have a thread in PPR comparing 1/6 to BLM riots which does anything but downplay the BLM riots.
2. In this thread I compared two days 1/6 and 9/11. The BLM riots were months-long event and they were plenty unnerving as was the widespread adoption of "anti-racism" and tenants of Critical Race Theory that followed.
3. If you read this thread you will learn I am not watching the hearings.
4. 1/6 can only be dismissed as a nothing burger because it failed. It failed because it was poorly organized, with a lot of LARP. That is in hindsight. There was no way of knowing that at the time. I had no idea if they were going to kill the congresspeople or take them hostage demanding they do not certify the election or else.


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23 Jun 2022, 11:33 am



Just "DarK Mused" here by one of the Most
'Ignorant Opinions' i've Heard Now So Far
This Year That "1/6" is A So-Called "Nothing
Burger," Almost Hard to Believe Someone Actually

Offered that Opinion
Yet of Course i Live
in the Deep South State
of 'Florida Men,' Including
TRumP And Mini-me-wanna-be-Trump
DeSaTaNiS And Other Minion Wanna-
Bes Like Gaetz And the Other Majorie
Taylor Green's of the World in Other 'Deep
South Southern States;' So, Actually It's Not That Big of A Surprise

For me As Actually Not Only Has one of the Most HiStoric Dictator Wanna
Bes And Demagogues for God Damned Sure, Donald J Trump, Become a Real
''Father oF ALL Lies" With His 'Really Big Lie' that He Continues to Fuel Desires With to
Either Break-Apart Democracy or Destroy it So Far From A Real Deadly Insurrection; Yes, An

Attempt on 1/6 That Both the Republican Senate Majority Leader And Republican
House Minority Leader Then Exposed Donald J Trump Was Practically Responsible
For Inciting THAT Attempt to OverThrow Our Representative Democracy; Well Yes

It's True, God Yes, if Humans All Were Truly Rational And Not So easy to Fall to Grifts
by "Snake Oils Sales Persons" And "Shady Used Car Sales Folks" Guaranteeing the Viability

of the Lie That An Orange Lemon Will Last And Be Actually Good For Something In Life; Yes,

This Whole Issue
Might Be a So-Called
"Nothing Burger" As No One
Would Have Believed THE BIG LIE in the First
Place of that "Nothing Burger;" Yes, Made of
Bull Cr8p As Far As What Father's oF All Lies
Bring to the Table of NOTHING REALLY GOOD

To EAT or
DRiNK, God Yes;

Yet Here's A Fact, Human Beings
At Core As Science SHows are Driven
By Emotions for Almost Every So-called

Reason For Decisions in Life, Rational or Not;

And Here's Another FAct, HUMANS ARE WILLING TO DIE
FOR BIGGEST LIES AND YES, ACTUALLY SEE THEMSELVES IN A MORAL
SUPERIOR POSITION OF KILLING INNOCENT FOLKS FOR A GOD DAMN BIG LIE;

IS TRUMP THE ONLY GUILTY ONE; HELL NO; WHAT'S SIMILAR ABOUT 9/11; TRUE,
OVER 3000 OF OUR CITIZENS WHO WERE INNOCENTS DIED AT THE HANDS OF FOREIGN

TERRORISTS;

YET WHAT WAS THE
REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION'S
REPLY THEN TO THAT FOREIGN OFFENSE

THAT BOTH HOARDS OF REPUBLICANS AND
DEMOCRATS BOTH FELL TO AS AN UNWARRANTED

WAR IN IRAQ

THAT DID KILL
100's OF THOUSANDS
OF PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T HAVE
TO DIE INCLUDING A FEW THOUSAND
OF OUR OWN AS PART OF THAT KILLING MACHINE

ABROAD; Yep,

ANOTHER GOD DAMNED
BIG LIE ANOTHER GOD DAMNED
BIG LIE ALL FOR THOSE WHO TAKE MORE THAN
GIVE HOARD MORE THAN SHARE ARE CALLOUS MORE
THAN CARING AND HARM MORE THAN THEY HEAL YES

INDEED THE DARK
PART OF THE HUMAN
CONDITION IS ALIVE
AND STILL LIVING DEAD;

Just Still Shooting itself in the
Foot, Killing Each Other Stumbling

Until All the "King's Men And Soldiers"
Fall Down And 'Humpty Dumpty' What is
Steadily Becoming More of A Foolish Biggest Lie

Believing Country Breaks

Apart and THere

is No One Left With
the Nuts of Truth to Put it All Back ToGeTHeR AGAiN;

It's True, it's Best Not To Break the Only Egg You Have...

As You Might Find Yourself Scraping it off the Floor to Eat...

Other than That if 'You' Choose to BeLiEVE iN 'Nothing Burgers'

You Still Live in a Free Enough Country to Share that Opinion And

Have it Fully
Rebutted
By A Free
Verse Poet
Who's Only Aiming
Now at Folks with 'Eyes
and Ears' to Really See and Hear...

i Could Tell the Iraq Fiasco Was A Big
Lie From The Get Go Just by Observing
George W Bush's God Damn Lying Body Language,

Including

the Dark
Song of
His Soul;

So Clear for Folks
Like me at Least
to See and Hear
And Discern; Ain't No Body
Selling me A God Damned
Orange Lemon And Other than that

Nope, i Don't Still Live in my Mother's Garage
until Close to 30 Years Old; my House and Car is Paid Off And
There is No God Damned Way i could Spend all the Money i Have Now...

TOTALLY FINANCIALLY INDEPENDENT FROM THE MONEY GOD NOW;

True, i never believed
in the God of Money

And i Saw that God
Buried in Hell for Real;

And Nah, i Don't Need A Stitch
Of Clothing to Be Naked Enough
Whole and Complete; Yes Verily Plenty
of Evidence for that Literal Reality too At 'Hand'...

Don't Need Any Crowd of Fools Telling me i am Naked,
Enough, Whole, And Complete; Not a God Damned one...

except
me
me
me hehe;
Other than that
'Oracles' Don't Program 'Computers'

We Create Existence Full of Wonder For Real..;)



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