Henan, China bank depositors hit with red health codes

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SkinnedWolf
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17 Jun 2022, 11:12 pm

https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1010547/henan-bank-depositors-hit-with-red-health-codes

Quote:
Wang Jin, from Zhangjiakou in Hebei, is among them. The 35-year-old said he came to Zhengzhou hoping to retrieve his savings from Yuzhou Xinminsheng Village Bank on Sunday, but ended up at the police station until the following day when his health code turned red while scanning a QR code to exit the city’s railway station.

He had last checked his health code 30 minutes before arriving in Zhengzhou, and it was still green then.

“The police officers confirmed that the frozen money was a legitimate deposit, but prohibited us from going to the local banking and insurance regulatory commission to inquire about this issue,” Wang told Sixth Tone on Monday afternoon. “We have reasonable and legitimate claims, but they used the red code as a reason to restrict us. They said our health codes will turn green when we leave, and until then we need to stay at the police station.”
...
Weeks later, many depositors are still waiting for concrete answers from the authorities. And those who have decided to travel to Zhengzhou and demanded action said certain measures to protect public health are instead being used against them.

“This is using the country’s epidemic prevention policy to prevent the people from seeking justice for themselves,” Wang said, referring to the health code. “Our family’s 420,000 yuan is now frozen, almost all of our savings. I need the money urgently, my parents need medicine, my two children need to go to school, and the family has a big financial burden.”


Note: Chinese official media
https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202206/17/WS62ac7ceba310fd2b29e635ff.html
Quote:
An official investigation has been launched in Zhengzhou, Henan province, after some depositors at local banks claimed they were given red health code notifications on their cellphones for non-epidemic related reasons.

Discipline inspection and supervision authorities in Zhengzhou announced the decision to investigate the matter on Friday afternoon.

Those who violate or abuse power in implementing Henan provincial health code management regulations for epidemic prevention and control will be held accountable and punished in accordance with the Party's rules and the law, the announcement said.

The move came after several depositors made complaints online or to media that they recently arrived in Henan and tried to withdraw their savings from some local rural banks, but found their health code turned red, even though they said they had reported their arrival in advance, as required by local epidemic-control authorities.

The colored health code system has played an important role in fighting COVID-19. Green codes guarantee access to public areas, while red codes serve as a warning of infection, possible infection or close contacts, meaning quarantining is required and entry to public venues and transport is restricted.


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18 Jun 2022, 1:12 pm

From Singapore (official) media. Chinese language.

It is difficult for banks in four villages/towns in Henan to withdraw money. It is reported that hundreds of people in Zhengzhou gathered to ask for funds back.
May 26, 2022

Quote:
It is difficult for banks in four villages/towns in Henan to withdraw money. It is reported that hundreds of people in Zhengzhou gathered to ask for funds back.

Bloomberg quoted six unnamed insiders as saying that the banking and Insurance Regulatory Commission in Zhengzhou, Henan Province, gathered hundreds of protesters on Monday (the 23rd), holding a sign that said "repay my savings", asking the authorities to ensure that tens of billions of yuan can be smoothly returned to investors. Local police later dispersed the crowd.
...
According to Xinhua news agency, the person in charge of the relevant department of the China Banking and Insurance Regulatory Commission disclosed that Henan new wealth group, the shareholder of four rural banks, absorbed public funds through internal and external collusion, using third-party platforms and fund brokers, and was suspected of committing crimes. The public security organ has filed a case for investigation.


Zhengzhou starts the investigation and accountability procedure for the issue of giving red health codes
June 17, 2022
Quote:
The Zhengzhou Municipal Commission for Discipline Inspection has launched an investigation and accountability procedure in response to the recent issue that some rural bank depositors' health codes have been given red codes.
...
The supervision committee of Zhengzhou Municipal Commission for Discipline Inspection said that any disorderly act found in violation of the measures of Henan Province for the management of health codes for COVID epidemic prevention and control would be seriously dealt with in accordance with the rules and disciplines.

Recently, several Zhengzhou citizens have been collectively "red coded", which is suspected to be related to the fact that hundreds of Zhengzhou citizens went to the streets to ask village banks to take back their deposits, which has raised questions from Internet public opinion about whether the health code used for epidemic prevention is used as a stability maintenance tool to restrict travel and curb the mass petition.

Note: the marked content is also my personal opinion.

Henan reaffirms that the health code is only used for epidemic prevention and control and for serving people's health
June 18, 2022
Quote:
The Henan Provincial epidemic prevention and control headquarters requires all localities to strictly implement the Henan Province COVID epidemic prevention and control health code management measures and the health code assignment and transcoding rules. The health code is only used for epidemic prevention and control and serves people's health. It is not allowed to be used outside the conditions specified by the national and provincial epidemic prevention and control headquarters, and it is not allowed to be used in scenarios unrelated to epidemic prevention and control, It is not allowed to add or delete the health code risk personnel database beyond the rules.

The epidemic prevention and control headquarters of Henan Province once again required all cities and counties to strengthen the management of health codes, and those who caused serious consequences due to improper use of health codes shall be seriously dealt with according to laws and regulations.
...
In addition, according to the website of the State Supervision Commission of the Central Commission for Discipline Inspection of the Communist Party of China, in response to the recent issue that some rural banks' depositors' health codes have been given red codes, the supervision commission of Zhengzhou Municipal Commission for Discipline Inspection has launched an investigation and accountability procedure, and will seriously deal with any disorderly act found in violation of the measures for the management of health codes for COVID epidemic prevention and control in Henan Province in accordance with regulations and disciplines.


A group of suspects arrested in Henan rural bank case
June 18, 2022
Quote:
On april19,2022, Xuchang public security organ filed a case against Henan new wealth Group Investment Holding Co, Ltd. for investigation of major crimes.
...
The circular said that the suspected criminal act in this case lasted for a long time, involved many people, and the case was very complex. The public security organs will further intensify the investigation and handling of cases, prevent criminals from going outside the law and evading punishment, further strengthen the recovery of stolen goods and losses, safeguard the legitimate rights and interests of the people, and timely release the progress of the investigation and handling of cases.

Note: according to my other sources, the investigation of this case started in April. However, in response to recent events, a progress report was made instead of new actions.


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magz
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18 Jun 2022, 1:27 pm

Turning covid safety measures to means of population control has been a fear all over the world...

Yet, in this particular case, it looks more like organized crime abusing this possibility, to cover up whatever they did to these banks.


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18 Jun 2022, 1:39 pm

This is not an individual case.
The health code system is managed by the provincial health commission. The provincial health committee is subordinate to the provincial government.

Excerpt from an analytical article:

Quote:
We have reason to guess that the Zhengzhou municipal government issued an order to prevent nonlocal depositors from defending their rights in Zhengzhou by using the health code.

In order to prevent depositors from petitioning, the local government in Henan Province even used the entrance examination for senior middle school as a bait to establish a "no petitioning community" system. For communities without petitions, 3 points will be added to the examination.

Whether it is giving red codes or adding points to the high school entrance examination to prevent personnel petitioning, both of them an abuse of public power.

The "no petitioning community" mentioned here occurs in more than one city in Henan Province. At present, the earliest network mark related to this comes from 2019.

How to deal with petitioners who come here or start from here is definitely a long-term political issue. There are obvious motives.
However, the problem still to be solved is how the rural bank is related to the interests of the provincial government. Or at what level does this collusion take place?


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19 Jun 2022, 3:43 am

The very problem of organized crime is that it infiltrates governments and uses them for their sinister purposes.
Powerful governments with little control mechanisms give organized crime more opportunities than those less powerful and subjected to public scrutiny - but all are prone to it.

I hope this mafia gets brought to justice - but for the future, I find "no-petition communities" policy a super dangerous abuse enabler.


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19 Jun 2022, 4:39 am

"petition". The political term in Chinese Mainland is 上访. This is a sensitive and delicate topic.
From Chinese wiki.

Quote:
信访, as short for "letters and visits from the people", commonly called 上访, is a unique way of political expression, petition and appeal in Chinese Mainland.
According to the official definition, letters and visits refer to citizens, legal persons or other organizations of the people's Republic of China who, in the form of letters, e-mails, faxes, telephones, visits, etc., report grievances, public opinions, or inadequacies of the official (police) to governments at all levels or government departments at or above the county level, and put forward suggestions, opinions or complaints.

In order to handle letters and visits, the general office of the State Council of the people's Republic of China has set up a special State Bureau for letters and visits, and governments at all levels, people's congresses and CPPCC have also set up letters and visits offices. Generally, enterprises, institutions and people's organizations in countries above Designated Size have complaint offices.
People in Chinese Mainland who exercise the "right of 上访" to redress their grievances in accordance with the constitution are called 上访者.
...
Although the law stipulates that individuals have the right to 上访, the government will list people with 上访 tendency as high-risk 上访者 and monitor them. Sometimes they even resort to violent means such as being sent to a mental hospital.

After the establishment of China's 上访 system, it has always been an unconventional channel to solve problems, mainly playing the role of guidance and communication. Many scholars have commented on the 上访 system. It is generally believed that China is a country with a vast territory, and the decentralization and decentralization of government are serious problems; The central government can only manage county-level affairs at most, and local officials have a lot of power. This will increase the chances of officials' dereliction of duty when the sky is high and the emperor is far away. Many scholars believe that the excessive color of rule by man is the drawback of the petition system. Because there is no certain way for letters and visits, and there is no specific system management, it is easy to have a bureaucratic style, or even intimidate the letters and visits.

Note: This is not entirely wrong.
I am familiar with a licensed psychiatrist who often works with 上访者. A considerable part of them are paranoid personality disorder(LitigiousParanoia). In the context of Chinese culture, they usually choose to 上访.
His opinion is that there are real grievances. But before you meet one, you will encounter quite a few "appeals" that only have "one mouth". These people waste public resources and stigmatize those who really have demands.
The questionable point in this matter is whether these measures have been abused, rather than whether the measures themselves should exist.

I would say that 上访 is a system that attaches great importance to the Rule of Person and ignores the Rule of Law. This(both 上访 and Rule of Person) is an ancient Chinese tradition.
And it is inefficient, or it gives some false hope. My opinion is to transform the whole system.

Technically, the restricted part is "illegal 上访". (I'm not quite sure how it works in practice.)
PRC issued the regulation about 上访 in 2005.
The most important part:
Bypass the immediate leadership to 上访, or many people visit the reception site of 上访 for the same matter, or refuse to elect representatives in accordance with the provisions of paragraph 2, Article 18 of the 上访 regulation.


Henan is a special province. Their geographical location and culture make their rather traditional residents have some paranoid or unrealistic illusions about the 上访 system. (not all, but some 上访者 are.)
I am not very sure whether the local governments in Hunan Province are more corrupt or bureaucratic than other regions, but their finances are not optimistic.

According to the public Encyclopedia of China's internal network, in 2008, Henan Province required to take various forms of education and admonishment to local abnormal petitioners who went to Beijing. Henan did not completely eliminate the existence of the "abnormal 上访 admonition center" until 2014. Relevant public encyclopedias define it as "new labor education center".

This should be regarded as the behavior of Henan local government.


But on the other hand, during the annual sessions of the NPC and CPPCC, Beijing will try to ensure that there are no political risk factors in Beijing.
This means that local governments will be under pressure from the central government during these periods. This would be a sufficient motive.


上访 will generally be regarded as a "past" issue rather than a "future" one.
What is striking about recent events is that they are beginning to involve the interests of others - and this usually leads to mutual supervision. This is a very familiar flavor in China (more referring to ancient China).
The danger is this logic, not petitioning/上访.


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28 Jun 2022, 12:50 am

Small banks in China are running into trouble. Savers could lose everything

Quote:
Peter had put his life savings of about $6 million into accounts at three small banks in China's central Henan province. He says he hasn't been able to access them since April.

The 45-year-old entrepreneur asked us to call him Peter for security reasons. He's from the eastern city of Wenzhou and is just one of thousands of depositors who have been fighting to recover their savings from at least six banks in rural provinces in central China.

"I'm close to having a nervous breakdown. I can't sleep," Peter told CNN Business.

When he tried to access his accounts online, a statement would pop up on the homepage informing him that the website was under maintenance and services would be unavailable for a while, Peter told CNN Business. Two months later, those services have not been restored.

The trouble began in April, when four banks in Henan suspended cash withdrawals.

In China, local banks are only permitted to obtain deposits from their home customer base, but authorities say that "third-party platforms" were used to acquire funds from depositors outside the region. In Peter's case, for example, his hometown is over 700 miles away from the banks in Henan.

The national banking regulator has accused a major shareholder of the four banks of illegally attracting money from savers. "Henan New Fortune Group, a shareholder of the four village banks, has illegally absorbed the public's funds through internal and external collusion, the use of third-party platforms, and fund brokers," the China Banking and Insurance Regulatory Commission told state-run Xinhua News Agency in May.

"The police have opened a case for investigation into the matter," it added.

Runs on small Chinese banks have become more frequent in recent years and some have been accused of financial improprieties or corruption. But experts worry that a much bigger financial problem could be looming, caused by fallout from a real estate crash and soaring bad debts related to the Covid-19 pandemic.

There are no official estimates yet on the total amount of funds that bank depositors are unable to withdraw. CNN Business did not receive a comment from the local police or the national banking regulator.

As many as 400,000 banking customers across China were unable to access their savings, according to an estimate in April by Sanlian Lifeweek, a state-owned magazine.

That's a drop in the ocean of China's vast banking system, but about a quarter of the industry's total assets are held by around 4,000 small lenders, which often have opaque ownership and governance structures and are more vulnerable to corruption, say experts, and the sharp economic slowdown.

"The scope of the bank scandals where bank officials embezzle and steal funds from depositors is alarming, and what is exposed could only be the tip of the iceberg," said Frank Xie, a professor at University of South Carolina Aiken who studies Chinese business and the economy.

"As the Chinese economy slows down further, the fiscal shortage worsens, and the debt repayments become more widespread among Chinese companies, especially in the real estate sector, bank runs could become more often and on a larger scale," he said.

Many savers have had enough. Late last month, hundreds of depositors traveled to Zhengzhou, the capital of Henan, to protest outside the office of the banking regulator and to demand their money back, to no avail.

Another protest was planned in June. But as the depositors arrived in Zhengzhou, they were stunned to find that their health codes — which were green upon departure — had turned red, according to six people who spoke with CNN and social media posts. Anyone with a red code — usually assigned to people infected with Covid or deemed by authorities to be at high risk of infection — immediately becomes persona non grata.

They are banned from all public venues and transport and are often subject to weeks of government quarantine.

CNN has reached out to the Zhengzhou government for comment. The Henan Provincial Health Commission told state-run news website thepaper.cn it was "investigating and verifying" the complaints from depositors who received red codes.

What's behind the problem in Henan
In Henan, the China Banking and Insurance Regulatory Commission has put the blame on the private investment firm that holds large stakes in all four lenders.

Last week, the Henan police said that a criminal gang headed by the investment firm's controller "has been suspected of using village banks to commit serious crimes." Police say several suspects have been arrested.

The Henan New Fortune Group no longer has a website. CNN tried to reach the company for comment on the phone and by email without success. The company has made no public statements and it's believed to have been annulled.

Later on Monday, the four Henan banks said they would start collecting information from customers who have been affected by the shutdown of their online transaction systems. The move was required by financial regulators, the banks added in separate statements on their website, without elaborating further.

That's of little comfort to the banks' customers. Deposits up to 500,000 yuan (almost $75,000) are guaranteed in the event of bank failures, but that's not enough for some — like Peter — and if the government's investigation finds that their savings are "non-compliant" transactions, they could lose everything.

"I'm quite worried about how they [authorities] are going to deal with our money," said Ye, who asked CNN Business to only use his surname. Ye is a 30-year old tech worker from the city of Dongguan in Guangdong province — about 1500 km (900 miles) from the banks he used in Henan. He said he has a total of 160,000 yuan (about $24,000) worth of deposits with them.

"We were told by the banks that the deposit products were legal, and that they were protected by the deposit insurance scheme," he said. "We just want to get our money back."

The four banks — Yuzhou Xinminsheng Village Bank, Shangcai Huimin County Bank, Zhecheng Huanghuai Community Bank, New Oriental Country Bank of Kaifeng — have not replied to requests for comment.

Risky liabilities
In early 2021, Beijing banned banks from selling deposit products via third party online platforms, fearing that the rapid expansion of the fintech sector could increase risks in the wider financial system. The People's Bank of China called such practices "illegal financial activities."

So why were small local banks in Henan apparently ignoring the ban and raising deposits from savers — like Ye, who live on the other side of the country?

China's national banking and insurance regulator says third party online platforms allowed them to bypass these geographical restrictions and grow their business nationwide.

In the Henan case, various state-run media are reporting that the deposit products were sold via platforms affiliated with, or owned by, giants of China's tech scene such as Baidu (BIDU) and JD.com. (JD)

Those platforms — Du Xiaoman Financial, which is the financial affiliate of Baidu, as well as JD Finance — have not responded to requests for comment.

"The central government regulators seem to be incapable of enforcing those regulations aimed at preventing this kind of bank run from occurring," said Frank Xie, the Chinese economy expert. He added that corruption was "rampant" at local levels of financial institutions.

"Perpetrators such as the person stealing millions from the depositors often get shielded by accomplices in governments and in the upper-level management of the banks," Xie said.

"The core problem is that China's financial system simply expanded far too fast relative to the size of the economy over the previous decade," said Logan Wright, director of China markets research at Rhodium Group.

China's banking sector has increased sixfold in size since 2008, with total assets reaching over $50 trillion, according to government statistics.

The funding structure of small lenders also makes them more risky, say experts.

Compared with big banks, they are more reliant on deposits for funding. Many of them offer high interest rates to attract commercial and interbank deposits. But as the slowing economy means borrowers struggle to repay the banks, it becomes difficult for them to deliver the returns they offered savers.

"The funding structure of liabilities in many of China's mostly smaller and regional banks is most likely still vulnerable to deposit runs, lender caution, and deteriorating economic performance and rising unemployment," said George Magnus, an associate at the China Centre at Oxford University and former chief economist at UBS.

Deteriorating financial health
The Henan crisis arrived at a time when public confidence in China's banking system was already waning.

In the past decade, Beijing has been clamping down on "shadow banking" activities — which means unregulated, off-the-book lending by financial institutions — on worries that most of the funds had been diverted to property developers and local government infrastructure projects, leading to a rapid run-up in debt and growing financial risks.

In 2019, China seized control of Baoshang Bank, based in Inner Mongolia, citing serious credit risks posed by the lender.

It was the first bank seizure in China in more than 20 years and the lender was declared bankrupt.

The following year, there were at least five bank runs at small lenders, mostly triggered by public fears following reports of financial distress at the banks or anti-graft investigations into bank executives.

"Financial institutions are still grappling with some of the losses that have resulted, particularly in China's northeast, central provinces, and western regions, where shadow banking activities had expanded the fastest over the past decade," Wright said.

Making matters worse, "the ongoing slowdowns in the economy during the Covid-19 pandemic have further exposed financial institutions to new credit risks as well," Wright added.

Spillover effects
Investors are closely watching the government's investigation into the Henan bank run. Analysts are gauging possible spillover effects to other banks.

"The economy is a key reason why affected banks might be experiencing difficulties, and it is quite possible that other banks will be affected, perhaps even larger banks, given that the fate of the property market and real estate prices hang in the balance," said Magnus from Oxford University.

The Chinese economy has been struggling with the country's zero-Covid policy. Many cities have been placed under full or partial lockdowns since March, wreaking havoc on activity. Analysts are worried that the economy could contract in the second quarter.

"This could have multiplier effects given that real estate as an asset class could be compromised now for a few years," Magnus said.

China's gigantic real estate sector, which accounts for as much as 30% of its GDP, is in a worsening downturn. Sales by the country's top 100 developers collapsed 59% in May from a year ago, according to a recent survey by property research firm Cric China.

Evergrande — one of the country's biggest developers — is undergoing a huge restructuring after it defaulted on its debts late last year. Analysts have long feared Evergrande's collapse could have ripple effects across the property industry and spill over to the financial system.

Property loans accounts for nearly 30% of outstanding loans with China's financial institutions.

Analysts aren't yet worrying about a financial crisis — because the PBOC is likely to ensure that larger and systemically more important banks are protected.

But the discontent triggered by the bank runs could be a major concern for the government.

When Covid health codes of depositors turned red early last week, derailing a planned protest in Zhengzhou, it sparked a massive outcry on social media.

"Now (the authorities) can stop you from petitioning by directly putting digital shackles on you, aka giving you red codes," said one comment on Weibo, China's Twitter-like platform.

Dozens of depositors were taken into a quarantine hotel guarded by police and local officials, before being sent away on trains bound for their hometowns the next day; others were "quarantined" at several other locations in the city, including a college campus, according to the witnesses and online posts.

"Many people lost their lifetime savings because of this and [if] more incidences like this takes place, and [if] a bank run is met with a government crackdown, social unrest will be the only end result," Xie said.

Quite sharp. But that's what I want to say.
I don't think this is an isolated organized crime.

Under the dynamic zero policy, the overall decline of China's economy is not significant compared with the rest of the world, but the level of its impact is very uneven. Small businesses and blockaded areas have suffered the most. China has no relief channel for this.

A. Henan has long had financial problems.
According to the data of the first half of 2021, Henan Province has the largest fiscal revenue and expenditure gap among all provinces in China.
When small banks began to collapse, it first occurred in Henan.

B. The local government in Henan has a tradition of suppressing protests by grey means.
The local government of Henan Province is not known as enlighted in eastern China.
(When your finances are so difficult that it is difficult to support qualified public servants, it will be surprising if there is no system rigidity. This could easily lead to further economic difficulties.)

When the two intersect, what we see occurs.
It may not be necessary at all for organized criminal activities to have an interest in the government.
Maintaining apparent stability is the interest of the local government in Henan.


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28 Jun 2022, 1:13 am

Yikes. We had Tadao Ando on the block next to us in a master plan outside Zhengzhou. I wonder if all that is going to be built now ... or, at least, occupied.

Henan sounds much worse than I expected when I first went there. But then again, they only showed us the shiny new buildings and infrastructures they had just completed.



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28 Jun 2022, 1:23 am

^Tadao Ando is the object that my architecture teacher asked me to imitate according to my style. :oops:


Henan is not the only region where China's economy has stagnated - not the worst.
I didn't pay attention to the detailed financial report of Henan Province, but based on the experience of other regions, I guess that the huge income and expenditure imbalance in Henan Province is due to the excessive infrastructure construction.

I expect the central government will try to save it, but with so many objects to save, Henan won't get much in the end. Some of infrastructure that has already started or be economic may get funding to complete them.
Architecture costs very little (compared to other infrastructure, we know). Those that are functional or have a great impact on the city appearance are likely to be completed eventually.


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28 Jun 2022, 1:34 am

I remember they were proud of their new subway. From what I gather it's still under construction, so that one will be bailed out in any case.

CCRE (Central China Real Estate, our client) built a lot of projects that were ghost towns for a long time. The idea was that as people keep transiting from rural to urban areas, those apartments would eventually fill up.

The reason our main project got axed was actually not due to the client or lack of money, but the administration in Zhengzhou. First they asked us to change the design because we had pointed arches (which looked "too Muslim", and was "too sensitive given the current conditions"), then they made the whole project impossible by demanding 50% of the site covered in greenery. The developer had to cancel more than half of the buildings on the site, including ours. I could complete some other work there though, so all was not completely lost.

Wild, really, compared to Japan.



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28 Jun 2022, 2:06 am

^Um...If it is real estate, whether it needs to be created is a systematic problem, which has little to do with construction or the market...I won't expand it here.


Personally, I have not been involved in the training of residential areas, but the 50% green space rate sounds quite exaggerated. My impression is that the standard is 30%. 50% will greatly increase the difficulty of cost recovery.
I found that Zhengzhou began to try to improve their average greening rate in 2021 (political achievements, etc.) 37.5% by 2025.
I don't think they plan to spend a lot of resources on improving the old community, so the requirements for new projects may be quite crazy.
I won't expect them to study the problem in detail. And professionals can't stand their pressure.

Muslims have been a sensitive issue for the last five years. The style of many mosques has been modified throughout the country to make it closer to native Muslims rather than Middle Eastern Muslims. But...Bureaucrats may not be very accurate about standards.

This is really annoying when layman bureaucrats have too much decision-making power and flexible discretion in professional matters. Unfortunately, real estate is such a thing in China. And Henan is not known for its openness.


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Cover your eyes, if you like. It will serve no purpose.

You might expect to be able to crush them in your hand, into wolf-bone fragments.
Dance with me, funeralxempire. Into night's circle we fly, until the fire enjoys us.


Last edited by SkinnedWolf on 28 Jun 2022, 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

1986
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28 Jun 2022, 2:18 am

To be honest, it might have actually been a client issue. We faced communication problems in that nobody in our office spoke Chinese nor understood the Chinese market, so there was an expectation gap between our client and what we actually delivered. The pointed arch thing was probably real, but the greenery rate might just have been the client inventing a reason to cancel some of the less revenue-earning projects. The same thing happened to a big firm in Hong Kong who was in charge of the master plan. Lots of things going on behind the curtains. The bureaucratic greenery rate was possibly just a convenient excuse/attempt to shift the blame.



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28 Jun 2022, 2:24 am

To be honest, we can speak Chinese, but we also encounter such poor communication.
I am not sure whether they will give foreign design units more time and more responsible communication methods, and pay for the modification!
However, in China, in the last decade, design units have been competing for few orders, so customers have become quite arrogant. They even often forget to put forward all the requirements at the beginning, so that when the requirements are supplemented later, the entire design institute has to reverse the previous work. This is rarely compensated.

It's hard to say where the whole accident happened. I guess it's both. I mean, bad customers and opaque policies.
I will not waste my time in this pot of soup until the environment is improved. China is not a good place for architects.


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Cover your eyes, if you like. It will serve no purpose.

You might expect to be able to crush them in your hand, into wolf-bone fragments.
Dance with me, funeralxempire. Into night's circle we fly, until the fire enjoys us.


1986
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28 Jun 2022, 2:40 am

They tended to respect us, but I think when they realized they had to cancel our main project they had to save face somehow. Just my theory.

I remember feeling sorry for the local Chinese design firm. Since we weren't licensed to work in China, we had a local firm as the architect of record. And we used to dump quite bad drawings on them so they had to redraw everything from scratch to make sure the design met mainland building codes.

Later in an interior design for a residential block we insisted that the MEP firm redraw all floor plans to accommodate our proposal. They vehemently objected, but eventually complied. I don't know how exactly they managed to reroute all the pipes and shafts, but it was done and we got it built.

To tell the truth though, I'm still angry our main building got cancelled. Nendo right next to us got the go-ahead and now they're building that. I guess I was arrogant to ask to be in the same league as OMA, Ando, Nendo, etc. as a project manager & principal designer, just two years after graduation.

Quote:
I will not waste my time in this pot of soup until the environment is improved. China is not a good place for architects.

If you go to Japan I'll get a job for you. :wink:



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28 Jun 2022, 2:51 am

1986 wrote:
If you go to Japan I'll get a job for you. :wink:

Um, thanks...New specifications, languages...I don't think I will suddenly become a genius in Japanese learning after eleven years of struggling in English learning.
I've been preparing for another job that doesn't have much to do with architecture for a year. I may have forgotten many of my professional skills...Its original level is not enough to make me proud.


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Cover your eyes, if you like. It will serve no purpose.

You might expect to be able to crush them in your hand, into wolf-bone fragments.
Dance with me, funeralxempire. Into night's circle we fly, until the fire enjoys us.


1986
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28 Jun 2022, 2:54 am

I was mostly joking. The situation for architects in Japan isn't very good, either. Too many graduates competing for too few jobs, plus the economy is not recovering. Even if you get your licence, you'll struggle. People always complain that there are "too many architects" in Japan.