F.B.I. Raids Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate

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Matrix Glitch
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09 Aug 2022, 7:50 pm

Raptor wrote:
Not pointing at any one individual here since there have been many to do so, but a cousin of mine said on his facebook that listening to liberals preach about the constitution is like listening to Satan recite holy scripture.

It's so overdone it sounds disingenuous. So much virtue signaling.



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09 Aug 2022, 8:32 pm

Raptor wrote:
Not pointing at any one individual here since there have been many to do so, but a cousin of mine said on his facebook that listening to liberals preach about the constitution is like listening to Satan recite holy scripture.


I believe it takes a lot of hubris to hold such a point of view. I often wonder if many of the people who make such claims have ever actually read or studied the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Amendments. Or actually understand the history and context within they were written. Or understand a thing about what liberals actually believe, v what nut cases like Alex Jones tell them liberals believe. It is valid to debate how these documents should be read (origionalist or applying concepts to modern realities), but being on an opposing side of that debate hardly makes one equivalent to Satan.


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Matrix Glitch
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09 Aug 2022, 9:18 pm

I haven't failed to notice how anyone who isn't into liberalism or says anything against it, is branded a nut job. Talk about hubris.



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09 Aug 2022, 10:25 pm

/\ And racist, misogynist, homophobic, uneducated, backward, etc...


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09 Aug 2022, 10:31 pm

Here's a little bit of crazy from the right side of the aisle:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/gop ... 28680.html


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10 Aug 2022, 12:00 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
As I said in the other thread, I feel very conflicted about these things due to a belief that no one is above the law, but also the awareness of how bad it looks when a president prosecutes his political opponent, especially the likely front runner in the upcoming election. In this case, I think the classified materials were a fishing expedition, they're not going to raid a former president for something so minor.

I agree that it is definitely a lesser of two nightmares decision. Because the insurrection and all that led up to it made America look like a banana republic does not make the justice department investigating a political rival of the President not make America not look like a banana republic. Whatever the merit of the investigation does not conflate with the bad optics.

The main but not the only person responsible for putting us in such a horrible bind is Trump because he committed crimes or acts convincingly like a person who has committed crimes.


In all seriousness, I think the notion of Trump as Biden's political rival in 2024 is looking less and less likely, even before the FBI raid.

He is really done this time. I know I have said that a thousand times before and it did not pan out, but this time it is
REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY true.


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Matrix Glitch
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10 Aug 2022, 12:14 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Here's a little bit of crazy from the right side of the aisle:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/gop ... 28680.html


The right repeating the cry of the left to defund law enforcement is crazy when they're the ones saying it.



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10 Aug 2022, 12:52 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
As I said in the other thread, I feel very conflicted about these things due to a belief that no one is above the law, but also the awareness of how bad it looks when a president prosecutes his political opponent, especially the likely front runner in the upcoming election. In this case, I think the classified materials were a fishing expedition, they're not going to raid a former president for something so minor.

I agree that it is definitely a lesser of two nightmares decision. Because the insurrection and all that led up to it made America look like a banana republic does not make the justice department investigating a political rival of the President not make America not look like a banana republic. Whatever the merit of the investigation does not conflate with the bad optics.

The main but not the only person responsible for putting us in such a horrible bind is Trump because he committed crimes or acts convincingly like a person who has committed crimes.


In all seriousness, I think the notion of Trump as Biden's political rival in 2024 is looking less and less likely, even before the FBI raid.

He is really done this time. I know I have said that a thousand times before and it did not pan out, but this time it is
REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY true.


DeSatan is the guy both the establishment GOP and the right wing nuts can agree on, so yes, I think Trump's day is done. Then again, I had very much overestimated the Electoral College actually fulfilling it's purpose by keeping a populist demagogue like Trump from the White House way back in 2016.


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10 Aug 2022, 12:52 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Here's a little bit of crazy from the right side of the aisle:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/gop ... 28680.html


The right repeating the cry of the left to defund law enforcement is crazy when they're the ones saying it.


I'm glad we agree. 8)


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DW_a_mom
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10 Aug 2022, 1:02 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:
I haven't failed to notice how anyone who isn't into liberalism or says anything against it, is branded a nut job. Talk about hubris.


What I wrote doesn't come anywhere near to that kind of implication. Alex Jones is willing to spout extreme theories he has admitted in court he didn't really believe, all to make a buck, and doesn't care who he hurts in the process. He IS, therefore, worthy of my considering him a nut case. NOTHING *I* wrote implies that everyone who isn't into liberalism is a nut case. Nothing I wrote says ANYTHING ANYWHERE close. *I* wrote that there is a valid debate on how to approach reading the constitution, a reality that Raptor's cousin's statement denies.


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10 Aug 2022, 1:03 am

Raptor wrote:
/\ And racist, misogynist, homophobic, uneducated, backward, etc...


I've never said any of that, either.

I said a single particular statement that outright attacks liberals and allows no room for intelligent disagreement shows hubris.


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DW_a_mom
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10 Aug 2022, 1:14 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Here's a little bit of crazy from the right side of the aisle:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/gop ... 28680.html


The right repeating the cry of the left to defund law enforcement is crazy when they're the ones saying it.


Sigh. We're really off into the unproductive side of what is happening.

The FBI has made some mistakes recently. Fact. Whether that means they should restructure (which is what liberals mean when they say "defund" the police) or ??? is up for debate.

But the warrant at issue involved more than the FBI. It also involved the DOJ, and sign offs included both a Trump and a Biden appointee. Bipartisan.

I just listened to a discussion of the warrant on the Dispatch podcast, and they noted a few things, and hopefully I am summarizing accurately:

1. They had to prove more likely than not for a crime to get the warrant.
2. Matters of information security are taken VERY seriously by the FBI and DOJ, and Trump is hardly the first high ranking official to get into the FBI or DOJ cross hairs over a potential slip up. The FBI has Hilary's servers, for example; difference being she voluntarily turned them over. Other recent investigations and/or prosecutions include Patraeus, and an Obama official I'm forgetting the name of ...
3. Seizure does not guarantee prosecution.
4. High ranking officials always seem to consistently get away with less consequences on these breaches than the rank and file.
5. A search warrant is defined by location, not person. It is entirely possible this has nothing at all to do with Trump.
6. Trump has a copy of warrant in his hands that says what they were looking for and he is free to share that with the world - but has not.


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Last edited by DW_a_mom on 10 Aug 2022, 3:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Matrix Glitch
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10 Aug 2022, 1:18 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Here's a little bit of crazy from the right side of the aisle:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/gop ... 28680.html


The right repeating the cry of the left to defund law enforcement is crazy when they're the ones saying it.


I'm glad we agree. 8)


That the left is displaying total hypocrisy, yep.



Matrix Glitch
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10 Aug 2022, 1:27 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Here's a little bit of crazy from the right side of the aisle:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/gop ... 28680.html


The right repeating the cry of the left to defund law enforcement is crazy when they're the ones saying it.


Sigh. We're really off into the unproductive side of what is happening.

The FBI has made some mistakes recently. Fact. Whether that means they should restructure (which is what liberals mean when they say "defund" the police) or ??? is up for debate.

But the warrant at issue involved more than the FBI. It also involved the DOJ, and sign offs included both a Trump and a Biden appointee. Bipartisan.

I just listened to a discussion of the warrant on the Dispatch podcast, and they noted a few things, and hopefully I am summarizing accurately:

1. They had to prove more likely than not for a crime to get the warrant.
2. Matters of information security are taken VERY seriously by the FBI and DOJ, and Trump is hardly the first high ranking official to get into the FBI or DOJ cross hairs over a potential slip up. The FBI has Hilary's servers, for example; difference being she voluntarily turned them over. Other recent investigations and/or prosecutions include Patraeus, an Obama official I'm forgetting the name of ...
3. Seizure does not guarantee prosecution.
4. High ranking officials always seem to consistently get away with less consequences on these breaches than the rank and file.
5. A search warrant is defined by location, not person. It is entirely possible this has nothing at all to do with Trump.
6. Trump has a copy of warrant in his hands that says what they were looking for and he is free to share that with the world - but has not.

Last night heard a retired high ranking FBI official say it was out of line.



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10 Aug 2022, 1:29 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Here's a little bit of crazy from the right side of the aisle:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/gop ... 28680.html


The right repeating the cry of the left to defund law enforcement is crazy when they're the ones saying it.


I'm glad we agree. 8)


That the left is displaying total hypocrisy, yep.


No, that the right is crazy for mimicking elements on the far left who had wanted to defund law enforcement.
This was hardly the first time the far right had taken an anti-police position. The ATF and FBI became jack-booted-thugs, at Ruby Ridge and Waco, according to the right, making extremists in either location out to be just patriots or religious people rather than racist fanatics and cultists who had broken the law. Or how the the most extreme congressional Republicans had taken the side of the January 6 rioters over the police they had attacked, even going as far as voting against recognizing those DC police officers' courage.


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10 Aug 2022, 1:31 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Here's a little bit of crazy from the right side of the aisle:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/gop ... 28680.html


The right repeating the cry of the left to defund law enforcement is crazy when they're the ones saying it.


Sigh. We're really off into the unproductive side of what is happening.

The FBI has made some mistakes recently. Fact. Whether that means they should restructure (which is what liberals mean when they say "defund" the police) or ??? is up for debate.

But the warrant at issue involved more than the FBI. It also involved the DOJ, and sign offs included both a Trump and a Biden appointee. Bipartisan.

I just listened to a discussion of the warrant on the Dispatch podcast, and they noted a few things, and hopefully I am summarizing accurately:

1. They had to prove more likely than not for a crime to get the warrant.
2. Matters of information security are taken VERY seriously by the FBI and DOJ, and Trump is hardly the first high ranking official to get into the FBI or DOJ cross hairs over a potential slip up. The FBI has Hilary's servers, for example; difference being she voluntarily turned them over. Other recent investigations and/or prosecutions include Patraeus, an Obama official I'm forgetting the name of ...
3. Seizure does not guarantee prosecution.
4. High ranking officials always seem to consistently get away with less consequences on these breaches than the rank and file.
5. A search warrant is defined by location, not person. It is entirely possible this has nothing at all to do with Trump.
6. Trump has a copy of warrant in his hands that says what they were looking for and he is free to share that with the world - but has not.

Last night heard a retired high ranking FBI official say it was out of line.


In his opinion.


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