F.B.I. Raids Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate

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goldfish21
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14 Aug 2022, 12:08 am

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goldfish21
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14 Aug 2022, 12:11 am

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Kraichgauer
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14 Aug 2022, 12:19 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As a matter of fact, I won't refute that, because those cases have a different set of circumstances.
BLM was right to take a stand against the police, as law enforcement around the country has had a less than stellar record of harassing and killing African Americans. I can just as easily turn that around and demonstrate how conservatives have always taken the side of the police while disregarding evidence of less than equal treatment of black Americans.
On the other hand, it's conservatives who have taken the side of MAGA white nationalists during the January 6 riot, even to the extent of defaming the DC police for attempting to protect the capitol.
Yes, violence perpetrated by the BLM and Antifa rioters was indefensible, but at least their cause, fighting racially based police brutality, was justifiable. The "white rage and racial resentment" of the January 6 rioters, and the Unite The Right rally, can hardly be put in the same category.

Double standards.


How so? I said damage done by BLM and Antifa was indefensible. But the circumstances and motivation leading to their demonstrations was justifiable. I challenge anyone to argue how the motives of the Jan. 6 rioters and the Unite The Right rally had any justification.


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14 Aug 2022, 12:52 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
The left can’t let go of the idea that if you show people enough facts, they will come around and share your view of what those facts mean.


Are we talking about the same people? My lifelong experience with the left has been one of obfuscation and manipulation, with a healthy heaping of shaming and guilt aimed at those who don't toe the line or expose uncomfortable facts. If I point out that their latest gun control scheme is based on flawed studies and a poor understanding of firearms, they don't thank me for the correction, they accuse me of not caring about dead children and having blood on my hands (and a small penis, they're fixated on gun owners' collective junk). If I point out that their ideas of systemic racism are not born out by the facts, e.g. very few unarmed black men are actually killed by the cops every year, I get accused of being a racist just for not accepting the claim at face value, and get denigrated as a privileged white male who couldn't possibly understand the issue (despite the people leveling the charge often being white themselves). Care to guess what happens when I try to point out that their are rather significant biological differences between men and women? Does any of that sound like "lay out the facts and people will come around"?

DW_a_mom wrote:
I’ve found myself trapped by that assumption as well, that things are either true or they are not and sharing facts will be persuasive. My whole career thrives on that.


You say that, but I can't shake you on guns even though I'm the one with all the facts, you have an instinctive dislike of them that no amount of information can penetrate, to name just one topic we've discussed where I have actual expertise and you don't.

DW_a_mom wrote:
But. It’s very politically naive. Politics isn’t about two people showing their cards and seeing whose fit black and white parameter best. Politics is more like chess. Democrats are miles behind in the chess game. They haven’t paid enough attention to what is driving frustrated voters and, from what I’ve seen, a lot don’t want to. It’s a huge mistake. I see it. Obviously you do.


It's easier to just write off their opposition as bigots and religious fanatics who can be safely marginalized, even as warning sign after warning sign rolls in, they keep doubling down even as it alienates more and more of the country. It's truly driven me to anti-politics, I can't stand the GOP but my hatred of the Democrats is so overwhelming at this point that I'm acting like a straight ticket voter, which I don't like and just makes me angrier for being put in that position.


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DW_a_mom
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14 Aug 2022, 1:36 am

Dox47 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
The left can’t let go of the idea that if you show people enough facts, they will come around and share your view of what those facts mean.


Are we talking about the same people? My lifelong experience with the left has been one of obfuscation and manipulation, with a healthy heaping of shaming and guilt aimed at those who don't toe the line or expose uncomfortable facts. If I point out that their latest gun control scheme is based on flawed studies and a poor understanding of firearms, they don't thank me for the correction, they accuse me of not caring about dead children and having blood on my hands (and a small penis, they're fixated on gun owners' collective junk). If I point out that their ideas of systemic racism are not born out by the facts, e.g. very few unarmed black men are actually killed by the cops every year, I get accused of being a racist just for not accepting the claim at face value, and get denigrated as a privileged white male who couldn't possibly understand the issue (despite the people leveling the charge often being white themselves). Care to guess what happens when I try to point out that their are rather significant biological differences between men and women? Does any of that sound like "lay out the facts and people will come around"?


I guess every "side" has its emotional trigger issues. My mind wasn't on the issues you listed, but on some very Trump related issues when I wrote my statement. There are also multiple areas where the data favors active government as being better for the economy and most citizens.

What's kind of funny is that I thought I was writing a post pretty much agreeing with one of yours. But I guess my rational didn't work for you, eh?

But I can see in my mind what you are talking about. No political side is homogeneous.

Quote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
I’ve found myself trapped by that assumption as well, that things are either true or they are not and sharing facts will be persuasive. My whole career thrives on that.


You say that, but I can't shake you on guns even though I'm the one with all the facts, you have an instinctive dislike of them that no amount of information can penetrate, to name just one topic we've discussed where I have actual expertise and you don't.


I don't think realize exactly how much you've written that I HAVE taken to heart. I accept that a lot of popular proposals won't actually work. But I also know we can't keep things going the way they are, so I think we need to be willing to experiment. What I'd like is for those well versed in weaponry to come up with viable alternatives instead of just shouting no to everything.

Quote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
But. It’s very politically naive. Politics isn’t about two people showing their cards and seeing whose fit black and white parameter best. Politics is more like chess. Democrats are miles behind in the chess game. They haven’t paid enough attention to what is driving frustrated voters and, from what I’ve seen, a lot don’t want to. It’s a huge mistake. I see it. Obviously you do.


It's easier to just write off their opposition as bigots and religious fanatics who can be safely marginalized, even as warning sign after warning sign rolls in, they keep doubling down even as it alienates more and more of the country. It's truly driven me to anti-politics, I can't stand the GOP but my hatred of the Democrats is so overwhelming at this point that I'm acting like a straight ticket voter, which I don't like and just makes me angrier for being put in that position.


I'm sorry you've had those experiences.

Life sucks for a lot of people right now, and it certainly hasn't lived up to what I was promised as I grew up. I place the blame differently than you do, because of what I see in data.


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Matrix Glitch
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14 Aug 2022, 5:44 am

goldfish21 wrote:
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More broken English jokes about an immigrant. "It's okay when we make fun of them". Also why bring up the Steele Dossier, which turned out to be totally fraudulent. It's okay, I know a lot of thinking doesn't go into this.



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14 Aug 2022, 10:59 am

Statistics on police shootings.Black men are at a higher risk of getting shot by a cop.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... -database/


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14 Aug 2022, 11:12 am

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goldfish21
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14 Aug 2022, 2:00 pm

Raptor wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Anyways, I'm off to ride my motorcycle & paddleboard to the beach for a bbq and summer party.

What kind of motorcycle?

This one:

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1993 BMW K75 w/ collector plates, rebuilt transmission last Spring, paddleboard strapped to the passenger seat - snapped this pic a day or two ago when I parked at the beach. Might take my car tdy so I can take a cooler full of burgers tho hmm. Or maybe the bike and I’ll pack light.


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goldfish21
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14 Aug 2022, 2:10 pm

Raptor wrote:
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:lol: :roll:


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goldfish21
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14 Aug 2022, 2:10 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As a matter of fact, I won't refute that, because those cases have a different set of circumstances.
BLM was right to take a stand against the police, as law enforcement around the country has had a less than stellar record of harassing and killing African Americans. I can just as easily turn that around and demonstrate how conservatives have always taken the side of the police while disregarding evidence of less than equal treatment of black Americans.
On the other hand, it's conservatives who have taken the side of MAGA white nationalists during the January 6 riot, even to the extent of defaming the DC police for attempting to protect the capitol.
Yes, violence perpetrated by the BLM and Antifa rioters was indefensible, but at least their cause, fighting racially based police brutality, was justifiable. The "white rage and racial resentment" of the January 6 rioters, and the Unite The Right rally, can hardly be put in the same category.

Double standards.


How so? I said damage done by BLM and Antifa was indefensible. But the circumstances and motivation leading to their demonstrations was justifiable. I challenge anyone to argue how the motives of the Jan. 6 rioters and the Unite The Right rally had any justification.

:heart: :heart: :heart:


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Matrix Glitch
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14 Aug 2022, 2:44 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As a matter of fact, I won't refute that, because those cases have a different set of circumstances.
BLM was right to take a stand against the police, as law enforcement around the country has had a less than stellar record of harassing and killing African Americans. I can just as easily turn that around and demonstrate how conservatives have always taken the side of the police while disregarding evidence of less than equal treatment of black Americans.
On the other hand, it's conservatives who have taken the side of MAGA white nationalists during the January 6 riot, even to the extent of defaming the DC police for attempting to protect the capitol.
Yes, violence perpetrated by the BLM and Antifa rioters was indefensible, but at least their cause, fighting racially based police brutality, was justifiable. The "white rage and racial resentment" of the January 6 rioters, and the Unite The Right rally, can hardly be put in the same category.

Double standards.

How so? I said damage done by BLM and Antifa was indefensible. But the circumstances and motivation leading to their demonstrations was justifiable. I challenge anyone to argue how the motives of the Jan. 6 rioters and the Unite The Right rally had any justification.

I was just talking about defund law enforcement sentiments (that's why I chose a picture of a police station).



goldfish21
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14 Aug 2022, 2:59 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As a matter of fact, I won't refute that, because those cases have a different set of circumstances.
BLM was right to take a stand against the police, as law enforcement around the country has had a less than stellar record of harassing and killing African Americans. I can just as easily turn that around and demonstrate how conservatives have always taken the side of the police while disregarding evidence of less than equal treatment of black Americans.
On the other hand, it's conservatives who have taken the side of MAGA white nationalists during the January 6 riot, even to the extent of defaming the DC police for attempting to protect the capitol.
Yes, violence perpetrated by the BLM and Antifa rioters was indefensible, but at least their cause, fighting racially based police brutality, was justifiable. The "white rage and racial resentment" of the January 6 rioters, and the Unite The Right rally, can hardly be put in the same category.

Double standards.

How so? I said damage done by BLM and Antifa was indefensible. But the circumstances and motivation leading to their demonstrations was justifiable. I challenge anyone to argue how the motives of the Jan. 6 rioters and the Unite The Right rally had any justification.

I was just talking about defund law enforcement sentiments (that's why I chose a picture of a police station).

Except you completely ignored context.

Defund the police in terms of BLM = stop giving cops $ for military weapons to shoot citizens for no reason. When all you have are ever bigger hammers, everything looks like a nail. Redirect the funds to social & health services that prevent crime instead.

Defund the FBI from magas = magas are pissed that their orange cult leader is facing consequences for his crimes and have now turned on law enforcement for doing their job enforcing the law.


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goldfish21
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14 Aug 2022, 4:10 pm

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14 Aug 2022, 4:34 pm

Funny how fast some people have gone from "should have complied, nothing to hide, blue lives matter, violence is uncalled for!" to "YOU CAN'T MAKE ME, I SHOULDNT HAVE TO, F**K THE PO-LEECE, BURN IT DOWN!"

Trump sure is being avoidant for someone who's innocent with nothing to hide. As outspoken as he usually is in public, it's wild how little he had to say when his words can be used against him in a court of law. You'd think he'd be eager to prove his obvious innocence.

The way some people claim "both sides are just as bad" but then follow up with "but at least THIS side gives me something I want!" sounds like paid promotion. "Don't tread on me, until payment has been received".



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14 Aug 2022, 4:55 pm

Misslizard wrote:
Statistics on police shootings.Black men are at a higher risk of getting shot by a cop.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... -database/


Now go look at the FBI data on who commits violent crimes sorted by race. I'm not going to hold your hand through the whole process here, as there's a lot of data and I don't find you receptive to changing your mind in the face of facts, but what you'll find if you're honest is that most of the mistreatment of blacks by the police is closer to being more likely to be handcuffed or detained or otherwise treated poorly than being shot. Don't get me wrong, it's still very bad that the police are treating anyone poorly, let alone in a racially discriminatory manner, but the idea that black people are in mortal peril every time they interact with a cop is false, and harmful as well.


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