F.B.I. Raids Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate

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Sounds like a great time; enjoy! I used to do stuff like that … hm, I really need to work on my social life. I kind of let the pandemic steal it and seem to have forgotten how to have one.

Right? Being informed is hard, it's like you're expected to do the other guy's research for him so you can bring him up to a level where he can understand why he's wrong, and the whole time he's kicking and screaming.

Right? I got double screwed by moving during the pandemic, now my social skills are decayed and I don't know anyone near me, it kinda sucks.

@Dox47 in response to the long articles …

The left can’t let go of the idea that if you show people enough facts, they will come around and share your view of what those facts mean. I’ve found myself trapped by that assumption as well, that things are either true or they are not and sharing facts will be persuasive. My whole career thrives on that. But. It’s very politically naive. Politics isn’t about two people showing their cards and seeing whose fit black and white parameter best. Politics is more like chess. Democrats are miles behind in the chess game. They haven’t paid enough attention to what is driving frustrated voters and, from what I’ve seen, a lot don’t want to. It’s a huge mistake. I see it. Obviously you do.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 13 Aug 2022, 7:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Personally I doubt nuclear codes or similar important info would be kept in cardboard boxes that could easily be carted out of the White House in plain sight. Furthermore from what I'm hearing is Trump could have declassified those documents but didn't go though whatever procedure for that. So it seems if they could have been declassified, they must not be all that important. I expect the really important stuff is kept in the Pentagon. Whereas these documents were supposed to be in the National Archives building which is like a museum slash library that's open to the public.

A president can declassify whatever he wants, it has nothing to do with document importance. What he can’t do is make that decision after he leaves office. With no trail of going through the usual process, he can’t prove the documents were declassified before he left office.

I’ve seen some speculation that the documents may have had the potential to enhance a private deal with Saudi Arabia. But right now we simply don’t know.

As I’ve mentioned before, records matters are to politicians what taxes were to Capone: the way to snag someone adept at covering their trail in other aspects of their criminal portfolio. It isn’t about the importance of the single matter itself.

I'll have to go on your word that the president could declassify information that would detrimental to national security. But still would such information be hanging out in cardboard boxes in the National Archives building?

Whatever the documents held, the beef seems to be they were supposed to be in the National Archives building, which would seem to exclude Top Secret military info or something illegal.

As for whatever else they grabbed that was Trump's personal data, that's another story. And that's what they would actually get him on, if there's anything there to bring some kind of indictment. But that's a big if. It's yet another wishing upon a star scenario that this time they finally really actually have something.

Threats of violence against the FBI are bad enough, but at least one MAGA lunatic has carried them out. And all this outrage is all on behalf of a bloated orange buffoon's cult of personality. And no, it's not a case of "if it can happen to Trump, it can happen to you," because I'm not going to steal classified materials!

Too many people live in a political echo chamber. They just don't understand that there's a whole other world of perspectives out there.

I looked at what you had to say about law enforcement in 2020 and you were whistling a different tune back then.

All of sudden the dem/libs are sticking up for law enforcement after vilifying them to the Nth degree. They seem to forget they were the ones torching police stations and coined "Defund The Police" while comparing he thin blue line flag to a Nazi symbol etc.

Somehow apparently this doesn't qualify as nutjobs:

It all depends on which side of the bread the butter is on.

Yesterday: "Kill ALL of those racist blue MF'ers!! !"
Today: "Oh my God...sob...snivel-snivel-sob-sob, those cowardly Trumster insurrectionist murdered those poor poor wonderful police officers...snivel-snivel-sob-sob.) All the while glancing up to make sure people are watching and recording video. No point wasting a good batch of crocodile tears without an audience.
l

What kind of motorcycle?

As a matter of fact, I won't refute that, because those cases have a different set of circumstances.
BLM was right to take a stand against the police, as law enforcement around the country has had a less than stellar record of harassing and killing African Americans. I can just as easily turn that around and demonstrate how conservatives have always taken the side of the police while disregarding evidence of less than equal treatment of black Americans.
On the other hand, it's conservatives who have taken the side of MAGA white nationalists during the January 6 riot, even to the extent of defaming the DC police for attempting to protect the capitol.
Yes, violence perpetrated by the BLM and Antifa rioters was indefensible, but at least their cause, fighting racially based police brutality, was justifiable. The "white rage and racial resentment" of the January 6 rioters, and the Unite The Right rally, can hardly be put in the same category.

I think all these arguments ignore the reality that “law enforcement” is hardly a single entity with a United attitude and opinion. They also ignore that “defund the police” was more about restructuring budget allocations and adding mental health professionals / social workers to police calls that often involve issues police are not trained to handle.

I’ve been consistent, can’t speak for anyone else. In the past 20-30 years it has become clear there are some systemic issues in policing that create disproportionately unjust results for our black citizens. Issues in training, issues in overly broad immunity, and issues in unspoken codes of silence. To pretend otherwise, and to not work to fix this issues, requires turning a blind eye.

There are many, many wonderful officers and departments. And some of them have even been talking about the systemic problems for a long time, trying to get someone to pay attention and fix things.

In contrast, Trump has bragged that he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue and no one would care, basically the epitome of knowing he enjoys an excess of privilege and benefit of the doubt. Despite all that has happened the past 6 years, he still does. He gets away with much you and I never would, and that remains true today. For anyone to complain about law enforcement because they actually enforced a law against him seems more than a little off base.

Compare the experiences with law enforcement being complained about.

Trump didn’t get shot. He didn’t get wrestled to the ground. He wasn’t mistaken for someone else of the same coloring. He isn’t afraid for his life because of law enforcement. He’s complaining about someone taking a warrant and entering his “beautiful home” to find boxes of data that had been subpoenaed months before, that he had had every opportunity to turn over voluntarily, and that were actually improperly stored on his property. It isn’t like the FBI came up empty. Nor is he likely to ever actually go to jail for this, if past patterns of high ranking officials hold. He’s still enjoying an extremely high level of privilege, no matter how he tries to color it for his supporters. He has more than enough resources to make sure his rights are adequately protected.

I am a long time supporter of law enforcement, but I have no problem calling out law enforcement for the issues that exist. It is necessary to make sure the profession retains its integrity and high status in our society. But let’s not pretend there is anything at all the same between this and events that led to civil unrest 2 years ago, and claiming liberals are being dishonest and inconsistent here ignores a whole lot of distinguishing facts.

Interesting comment that a friend posted to Facebook on his private page. I originally copied it but quickly realized that wasn’t kosher. The very quick summary is that my friend, who is a retired prosecutor and current law school professor, believes that by now claiming he had declassified the materials, Trump is basically admitting to all the charges in the warrants. It takes a few steps to get there, which is why I originally wanted to use my friend’s post, but he thinks Trumps lawyers and advisors dropped the ball (or were ignored).

Double standards.