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Rand Paul Wants Espionage Act to Be Repealed

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AnonymousAnonymous
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15 Aug 2022, 4:24 pm

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/08/15/kentucky-sen-rand-paul-espionage-act/10326752002/


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15 Aug 2022, 4:29 pm

That loud, sucking sound you hear is Rand Paul trying to win Donald Trump's favor.


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cyberdad
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15 Aug 2022, 4:53 pm

I hear it's countersigned by Putin



Dox47
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15 Aug 2022, 8:26 pm

Funny, repealing the espionage act used to be a left wing pursuit, back before they learned to love the national security state. It's a genuinely terrible law, one that had largely fallen by the wayside before Obama went nuts with it in the 10s.


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15 Aug 2022, 10:44 pm

I think it definitely needs to be repealed.


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15 Aug 2022, 10:44 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Funny, repealing the espionage act used to be a left wing pursuit, back before they learned to love the national security state. It's a genuinely terrible law, one that had largely fallen by the wayside before Obama went nuts with it in the 10s.


But as it had been used by Woodrow Wilson to crack down on mostly left wing opposition to American involvement in WWI, I suspect Paul wouldn't have had much of problem with it, considering who was prosecuted originally.


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Dox47
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16 Aug 2022, 1:11 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
But as it had been used by Woodrow Wilson to crack down on mostly left wing opposition to American involvement in WWI, I suspect Paul wouldn't have had much of problem with it, considering who was prosecuted originally.


I don't think so, Rand Paul has largely been a consistent libertarian over the years, you shouldn't project your own attitudes onto others.


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16 Aug 2022, 1:15 am

Do I have it right that early in his presidency Trump wanted to expand the espionage act? You know, when he wanted to get Hilary locked up?


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16 Aug 2022, 1:59 am

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
But as it had been used by Woodrow Wilson to crack down on mostly left wing opposition to American involvement in WWI, I suspect Paul wouldn't have had much of problem with it, considering who was prosecuted originally.


I don't think so, Rand Paul has largely been a consistent libertarian over the years, you shouldn't project your own attitudes onto others.


Projecting? Uh... no. Remember, I'm the guy who's sympathetic to the kind of people who Wilson went after with the Espionage act, such as labor radicals like Eugene Debbs. Essentially, he was going after my people.


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16 Aug 2022, 1:59 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
Do I have it right that early in his presidency Trump wanted to expand the espionage act? You know, when he wanted to get Hilary locked up?


You are correct. Ironic, isn't it?


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Dox47
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17 Aug 2022, 8:15 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Projecting? Uh... no. Remember, I'm the guy who's sympathetic to the kind of people who Wilson went after with the Espionage act, such as labor radicals like Eugene Debbs. Essentially, he was going after my people.


So, you only support repealing laws that are used to go after "your people", rather than unjust laws generally? That is what I meant by projecting, both Rand Paul and I have supported repealing the Espionage Act regardless of who it was being used against, where as you need to check the team alignment before making a decision.


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17 Aug 2022, 8:18 pm

I say give it a few more years, just to be sure.



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17 Aug 2022, 10:48 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Projecting? Uh... no. Remember, I'm the guy who's sympathetic to the kind of people who Wilson went after with the Espionage act, such as labor radicals like Eugene Debbs. Essentially, he was going after my people.


So, you only support repealing laws that are used to go after "your people", rather than unjust laws generally? That is what I meant by projecting, both Rand Paul and I have supported repealing the Espionage Act regardless of who it was being used against, where as you need to check the team alignment before making a decision.


I think we both know I didn't say that. I said the Espionage Act had been used against people on the left like me, and that I doubt Paul would have been that sympathetic toward them, despite all the claims that libertarians are supposed to be for fair play for all.
But realistically, the only reason why Paul is speaking up about repealing it is because it's going to be used against Trump. Had the situation been reversed and it was Biden or Obama about to be charged, I have no doubt Paul would be beating the drum to prosecute.


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18 Aug 2022, 12:59 am

I don't honestly believe Trump will take the fall under the Espionage Act, not based on what we know so far, anyway. It's just too sticky. If he gets prosecuted it will be taxes and/or Obstruction of Justice. IMHO

As amusing as I find it to see Trump falling into traps he wanted set for others, I don't actually think it is unreasonable for someone working practically 24/7 in a high pressure job at the top of our government to hoard a little and drop a few dots on their i's. I honestly can't imagine trying to follow the strict protocols required in government; I'd go bonkers. Trump's attempt to manifest all these rules into nothingness by pretending the stuff was "his" I can't relate to, but do find amusing.


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18 Aug 2022, 1:09 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
But realistically, the only reason why Paul is speaking up about repealing it is because it's going to be used against Trump. Had the situation been reversed and it was Biden or Obama about to be charged, I have no doubt Paul would be beating the drum to prosecute.


Of course you do, because you project your partisanship onto others regardless of the evidence to the contrary. Paul has also long been a fierce opponent of the PATRIOT act, despite there being no partisan advantage to that position for him, as people other than you make decisions based on things besides whether or not we think they'd benefit our "side".


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18 Aug 2022, 1:31 am

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
But realistically, the only reason why Paul is speaking up about repealing it is because it's going to be used against Trump. Had the situation been reversed and it was Biden or Obama about to be charged, I have no doubt Paul would be beating the drum to prosecute.


Of course you do, because you project your partisanship onto others regardless of the evidence to the contrary. Paul has also long been a fierce opponent of the PATRIOT act, despite there being no partisan advantage to that position for him, as people other than you make decisions based on things besides whether or not we think they'd benefit our "side".


But you don't?


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