Virginia Students walkout - Trans policies

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IsabellaLinton
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29 Sep 2022, 9:49 am

No one has suggested that we have to do away with gender in this thread.
All we have said is that people should be seen as people, first and foremost.
Other distinctions like gender, race, or neurotype should be secondary to "being human".

The bathroom debate is just one aspect of this worldwide gender conversation.
It's almost inconsequential compared to the bigger issues.
I think school systems will change in the coming years and most kids will learn from home.
I don't see there being many environments where gendered bathrooms will even matter.

Any changes that are implemented will be done slowly, over a few generations of children.
Boys can still be boys and girls can still be girls, assuming they want to.
There's nothing wrong with gender.
Toxic gender roles need to stop, but beyond that people can be as male or female as they want.



Matrix Glitch
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29 Sep 2022, 10:11 am

It's what's taking place in the world, rather than what people say in this thread that matters. Personally I seriously doubt there are 50 to 70 genders. That's ridiculous in my opinion. The whole long list of preferred gender pronouns like "ze/hir/hir" etc is ridiculous too. And society is being told to conform to and except whatever, and by that I mean literally whatever. There's a drive to completely eliminate terms like mother, father, brother, sister etc. There's drive to teach the whole zillion genders and pronouns mess in schools to students at as young an age as possible. And it's easy to guess what happens to the teachers who don't go along with it. It has gone way beyond just accepting others.



goldfish21
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29 Sep 2022, 10:22 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:
It's what's taking place in the world, rather than what people say in this thread that matters. Personally I seriously doubt there are 50 to 70 genders. That's ridiculous in my opinion. The whole long list of preferred gender pronouns like "ze/hir/hir" etc is ridiculous too. And society is being told to conform to and except whatever, and by that I mean literally whatever. There's a drive to completely eliminate terms like mother, father, brother, sister etc. There's drive to teach the whole zillion genders and pronouns mess in schools to students at as young an age as possible. And it's easy to guess what happens to the teachers who don't go along with it. It has gone way beyond just accepting others.


People are already each labelled with a name and are referred to by pronouns. What's the difference in using the one's someone prefers for themselves?

Besides, you're likely already accustomed to calling someone by a changed name and pronoun. Happens all the time when women get married. How is it any different to respectfully use the name and pronoun someone else prefers when they change theirs? If you can do one, I'm sure you can do the other - it's literally the same thing.


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Last edited by goldfish21 on 29 Sep 2022, 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

IsabellaLinton
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29 Sep 2022, 10:25 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:
It's what's taking place in the world, rather than what people say in this thread that matters. Personally I seriously doubt there are 50 to 70 genders. That's ridiculous in my opinion. The whole long list of preferred gender pronouns like "ze/hir/hir" etc is ridiculous too. And society is being told to conform to and except whatever, and by that I mean literally whatever. There's a drive to completely eliminate terms like mother, father, brother, sister etc. There's drive to teach the whole zillion genders and pronouns mess in schools to students at as young an age as possible. And it's easy to guess what happens to the teachers who don't go along with it. It has gone way beyond just accepting others.


That does seem ridiculous to me.
It's like some people are overcompensating in a panic.
I don't believe in cancel culture or brainwashing little kids.
Implement awareness over time, and be respectful.

imo that's all it should be about.



goldfish21
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29 Sep 2022, 10:31 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
It's what's taking place in the world, rather than what people say in this thread that matters. Personally I seriously doubt there are 50 to 70 genders. That's ridiculous in my opinion. The whole long list of preferred gender pronouns like "ze/hir/hir" etc is ridiculous too. And society is being told to conform to and except whatever, and by that I mean literally whatever. There's a drive to completely eliminate terms like mother, father, brother, sister etc. There's drive to teach the whole zillion genders and pronouns mess in schools to students at as young an age as possible. And it's easy to guess what happens to the teachers who don't go along with it. It has gone way beyond just accepting others.


That does seem ridiculous to me.
It's like some people are overcompensating in a panic.
I don't believe in cancel culture or brainwashing little kids.
Implement awareness over time, and be respectful.

imo that's all it should be about.

If it seems ridiculous it's because this is the far right wing media spin on all of this. This is the kind of nonsense tucker carlson is spouting off and suggesting that if people are respectful of someone's name and pronoun changes, then suddenly there will be some extreme scenario where brothers and sisters no longer exist and there's a list of 928732987429874 pronouns to memorize. Hyperbole for the sake of riling up right wingers.


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kraftiekortie
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29 Sep 2022, 10:31 am

I don't believe there's a "revolution" going on in terms of "50-70 genders."

Nobody I know, in either of my jobs, goes by any other gender pronoun than "he, she, or (rarely) they."



IsabellaLinton
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29 Sep 2022, 10:38 am

goldfish21 wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
It's what's taking place in the world, rather than what people say in this thread that matters. Personally I seriously doubt there are 50 to 70 genders. That's ridiculous in my opinion. The whole long list of preferred gender pronouns like "ze/hir/hir" etc is ridiculous too. And society is being told to conform to and except whatever, and by that I mean literally whatever. There's a drive to completely eliminate terms like mother, father, brother, sister etc. There's drive to teach the whole zillion genders and pronouns mess in schools to students at as young an age as possible. And it's easy to guess what happens to the teachers who don't go along with it. It has gone way beyond just accepting others.


That does seem ridiculous to me.
It's like some people are overcompensating in a panic.
I don't believe in cancel culture or brainwashing little kids.
Implement awareness over time, and be respectful.

imo that's all it should be about.

If it seems ridiculous it's because this is the far right wing media spin on all of this. This is the kind of nonsense tucker carlson is spouting off and suggesting that if people are respectful of someone's name and pronoun changes, then suddenly there will be some extreme scenario where brothers and sisters no longer exist and there's a list of 928732987429874 pronouns to memorize. Hyperbole for the sake of riling up right wingers.


idk who Tucker Carlson is, but yes it's fearmongering on the part of ... someone with an agenda.
That agenda is fuelled by fear, which is usually a fear of the unknown.
That's why I hope kids can see examples of many types of families, from an early age.
Commercial advertising (toxic gender roles) also needs to be revised.



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29 Sep 2022, 11:13 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
r00tb33r wrote:
not sorting by gender and "just being people" seems like a brilliant idea. Product of a genius. /sarcasm


So wait, you don't think people should be allowed to be people?

So if some hulking biker dude goes into the women's restroom or women's locker room, women are being bigoted or phobic if that bothers them?


Have you never been to a bar or restaurant that has one or two doors entering one large communal washroom with multiple stalls and sinks where both “hulking biker dudes,” (is that me? 6’2” about 215lbs & ride a motorcycle) as well as women in sleek dresses enter the same space at the same time, do their business, wash & dry their hands and then exit the washroom and return to their respective parties’ tables? :?

It’s really not a weird thing at all. It’s not like people are 2 up in a stall squatting over each other. :lol: And once you realize both the space and time efficiencies you’ll wonder why it isn’t more common.

No I've never been in such an establishment. Would you care to some of them to establish their existence?

I have no idea if they still do this but McSorley’s a famous Irish Pub in New York City did this in the ‘80s. Along with the back and white ale the only drinks they sold using it was considered a key part of the McSorely’s experience.

Also in that era if there was a huge line for the women’s room and no line for the men’s room in clubs or concerts occasionally the women would crash the men’s room. After a few awkward smiles and giggles people did their business and that was that.

Unless it is a one stall bathroom the binary bathroom system predominates. But it may be different for bathrooms in Gen Z spaces.

And with that I even though I am the OP I am getting the hell out of this thread.


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Matrix Glitch
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29 Sep 2022, 11:17 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
It's what's taking place in the world, rather than what people say in this thread that matters. Personally I seriously doubt there are 50 to 70 genders. That's ridiculous in my opinion. The whole long list of preferred gender pronouns like "ze/hir/hir" etc is ridiculous too. And society is being told to conform to and except whatever, and by that I mean literally whatever. There's a drive to completely eliminate terms like mother, father, brother, sister etc. There's drive to teach the whole zillion genders and pronouns mess in schools to students at as young an age as possible. And it's easy to guess what happens to the teachers who don't go along with it. It has gone way beyond just accepting others.


That does seem ridiculous to me.
It's like some people are overcompensating in a panic.
I don't believe in cancel culture or brainwashing little kids.
Implement awareness over time, and be respectful.

imo that's all it should be about.


I invite anyone to do some research into what I'm saying to see it for themselves. They'll see there's no need for me to exaggerate any of it.



Matrix Glitch
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29 Sep 2022, 11:21 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't believe there's a "revolution" going on in terms of "50-70 genders."

Nobody I know, in either of my jobs, goes by any other gender pronoun than "he, she, or (rarely) they."

I didn't make any of that up. All I did was google "how many genders are there?" Along with "how many preferred gender pronouns are there?", or "list of preferred gender pronouns".



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29 Sep 2022, 11:26 am

goldfish21 wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
It's what's taking place in the world, rather than what people say in this thread that matters. Personally I seriously doubt there are 50 to 70 genders. That's ridiculous in my opinion. The whole long list of preferred gender pronouns like "ze/hir/hir" etc is ridiculous too. And society is being told to conform to and except whatever, and by that I mean literally whatever. There's a drive to completely eliminate terms like mother, father, brother, sister etc. There's drive to teach the whole zillion genders and pronouns mess in schools to students at as young an age as possible. And it's easy to guess what happens to the teachers who don't go along with it. It has gone way beyond just accepting others.


That does seem ridiculous to me.
It's like some people are overcompensating in a panic.
I don't believe in cancel culture or brainwashing little kids.
Implement awareness over time, and be respectful.

imo that's all it should be about.

If it seems ridiculous it's because this is the far right wing media spin on all of this. This is the kind of nonsense tucker carlson is spouting off and suggesting that if people are respectful of someone's name and pronoun changes, then suddenly there will be some extreme scenario where brothers and sisters no longer exist and there's a list of 928732987429874 pronouns to memorize. Hyperbole for the sake of riling up right wingers.

It's all stuff that I looked up on my own out of curiosity. The actual facts of it all belays the need for any spinning or exaggerating. And no I didn't get my info from any right-wing or similar sources. I got it straight from the horse's mouth.



Last edited by Matrix Glitch on 29 Sep 2022, 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

goldfish21
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29 Sep 2022, 11:27 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't believe there's a "revolution" going on in terms of "50-70 genders."

Nobody I know, in either of my jobs, goes by any other gender pronoun than "he, she, or (rarely) they."

I didn't make any of that up. All I did was google "how many genders are there?" Along with "how many preferred gender pronouns are there?", or "list of preferred gender pronouns".


When I meet someone and am introduced to them by name, I don't go to google and ask 'how many different names are there?' and tell the person, sorry, can't call you by your name.. google says there are too many names.

Why would you do the same with someone's preferred pronoun? Makes no sense whatsoever.


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IsabellaLinton
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29 Sep 2022, 11:28 am

I mean, it’s ridiculous to have 70 pronouns and to get rid of words like brother and sister. I didn’t mean that your claim was ridiculous. I’m sure that is happening out there in some places, and it’s gone too far in some regards.

It’s like a viscous circle. The more people complain about it (generally right wingers), the more people will defend themselves with more pronouns and more exaggerated SJW behaviour. Rinse and repeat.

I wish both sides could just get real about it, and have an honest conversation about what this gender stuff really means.

I would explain more but I’m heading out the door. I wasn’t saying you were ridiculous and I wasn’t doubting what you claimed. At the same time, I believe in putting human rights first, and in respecting gender identity.



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29 Sep 2022, 11:31 am

goldfish21 wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't believe there's a "revolution" going on in terms of "50-70 genders."

Nobody I know, in either of my jobs, goes by any other gender pronoun than "he, she, or (rarely) they."

I didn't make any of that up. All I did was google "how many genders are there?" Along with "how many preferred gender pronouns are there?", or "list of preferred gender pronouns".


When I meet someone and am introduced to them by name, I don't go to google and ask 'how many different names are there?' and tell the person, sorry, can't call you by your name.. google says there are too many names.

Why would you do the same with someone's preferred pronoun? Makes no sense whatsoever.

I find out what's going on with the whole enchilada before talking about it on a public forum. Google doesn't say anything. It takes me to the sources that talk all about it.



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29 Sep 2022, 11:39 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I mean, it’s ridiculous to have 70 pronouns and to get rid of words like brother and sister. I didn’t mean that your claim was ridiculous. I’m sure that is happening out there in some places, and it’s gone too far in some regards.

It’s like a viscous circle. The more people complain about it (generally right wingers), the more people will defend themselves with more pronouns and more exaggerated SJW behaviour. Rinse and repeat.

I wish both sides could just get real about it, and have an honest conversation about what this gender stuff really means.

I would explain more but I’m heading out the door. I wasn’t saying you were ridiculous and I wasn’t doubting what you claimed. At the same time, I believe in putting human rights first, and in respecting gender identity.



When it comes to family member titles it's a new term like "birthing person" for a parent for example, rather than a pronoun.

If people think I'm making this stuff up, I can understand why. But in these cases fact is stranger than fiction.



Last edited by Matrix Glitch on 29 Sep 2022, 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

goldfish21
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29 Sep 2022, 11:41 am

The ironic part is you're literally the only person I've seen on the internet promoting 70-150 genders and titles like birth person or whatever flavour of the day you want to hate on while promoting it. :lol:


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