America’s new gun owners aren’t who you’d think

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Persephone29
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30 Sep 2022, 9:56 pm

In my opinion, gun ownership needs have evolved. They were always for protection against marauders, but if you go back to the accounts in settlements or immigrants who were sponsored by a land owner, the land owner was relied upon for protection. People were poor, they felt fortunate to afford seed for the next planting and the basics. If you tried to rob them what would you get, a plate of stew?
When the wars came and the militias were formed, the land owners had to raise their fair share of men and provide the weapons. The idea of the head of every house having a rifle became more and more a reality. And as people began to prosper and do more than just survive, the possibility of getting robbed became more and more reality, as well. These people had come from places where they had nothing and through hard work, they were finally getting ahead. And they weren't about to let anyone take it from them ever again.
Gun ownership is tied to freedom, first and foremost. But, it's also tied to past victimization, poverty and the determination to never be at the mercy of someone else again. Fast forward to now, when everybody who wants and can afford a weapon has one. The 'registration' laws are in effect, but the criminals don't register their weapons. So, any 'recall' of all guns would be pointless because the only people who reliably register their weapons are the ones who were never likely to use them in the commission of a crime. All the good people turn over their weapons and all the bad people keep theirs? And we know this...
We're never going to say, "Oh, let me turn over my gun to make society better in the U.S.," because we know the real dangers are never going to turn theirs in.
While I understand the worlds confusion and need to present what they feel are viable solutions to our 'gun problem.' The fact remains that it's in the constitution, it's never going to happen. The best advice I can give people who are afraid of dying at any given moment is don't come here. Or, if you're already here and it's too much to bear, move. It's a big world. There are lots of places to go where you won't be shot, but perhaps you'll just have less to protect. I'm used to it, it doesn't bother me. I know how to avoid conflict too.


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goldfish21
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01 Oct 2022, 7:43 am

It seems gun ownership is also tied to fear of not being able to buy/own guns anymore. Or at least that's what was reported about Obama being the greatest gun salesman in America, ever.. seeing as more guns were sold during his presidency than any other to date.

Just googled to see if that was still the case.. nope, Joey B takes the cake now. Americans have bought way more guns in the last 2 years than ever. This time I don't think it's because people believe Biden is about to cancel gun sales - haven't really seen any headlines like that this time around.. more so it's likely preparation for civil unrest - definitely been plenty of headlines about that.

Just scroll down the google results and skim the headlines - gun sales have been pretty cyclical depending on who's in the whitehouse:

https://www.google.com/search?q=most+gu ... e&ie=UTF-8


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Persephone29
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01 Oct 2022, 8:22 am

goldfish21 wrote:
It seems gun ownership is also tied to fear of not being able to buy/own guns anymore. Or at least that's what was reported about Obama being the greatest gun salesman in America, ever.. seeing as more guns were sold during his presidency than any other to date.

Just googled to see if that was still the case.. nope, Joey B takes the cake now. Americans have bought way more guns in the last 2 years than ever. This time I don't think it's because people believe Biden is about to cancel gun sales - haven't really seen any headlines like that this time around.. more so it's likely preparation for civil unrest - definitely been plenty of headlines about that.

Just scroll down the google results and skim the headlines - gun sales have been pretty cyclical depending on who's in the whitehouse:

https://www.google.com/search?q=most+gu ... e&ie=UTF-8


In 2017 there were 40 Million more guns than people in the US. I'm sure those numbers have grown. And those are just the guns sales they know have taken place. When facing numbers like that, it should be a little easier to comprehend why a female, minority would feel the need to own at least one gun for protection. Or any average person, for that matter. It's what they do with it after they buy it that's of utmost importance.

1. Practice using it
2. Secure it between uses

Ironically, these seem to be the hardest to follow through with.

I don't own any assault rifles. But, I'm not against them. If the people who were exercising their constitutional right to own one had taken steps to secure them the way they should have, many mass shootings might have been avoided. There should be prison sentences for parents who allow their children to get hold of these guns. They don't even have to shoot anyone, just getting hold of the gun should be enough to earn prison time for the careless owner.


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goldfish21
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01 Oct 2022, 8:44 am

Persephone29 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
It seems gun ownership is also tied to fear of not being able to buy/own guns anymore. Or at least that's what was reported about Obama being the greatest gun salesman in America, ever.. seeing as more guns were sold during his presidency than any other to date.

Just googled to see if that was still the case.. nope, Joey B takes the cake now. Americans have bought way more guns in the last 2 years than ever. This time I don't think it's because people believe Biden is about to cancel gun sales - haven't really seen any headlines like that this time around.. more so it's likely preparation for civil unrest - definitely been plenty of headlines about that.

Just scroll down the google results and skim the headlines - gun sales have been pretty cyclical depending on who's in the whitehouse:

https://www.google.com/search?q=most+gu ... e&ie=UTF-8


In 2017 there were 40 Million more guns than people in the US. I'm sure those numbers have grown. And those are just the guns sales they know have taken place. When facing numbers like that, it should be a little easier to comprehend why a female, minority would feel the need to own at least one gun for protection. Or any average person, for that matter. It's what they do with it after they buy it that's of utmost importance.

1. Practice using it
2. Secure it between uses

Ironically, these seem to be the hardest to follow through with.

I don't own any assault rifles. But, I'm not against them. If the people who were exercising their constitutional right to own one had taken steps to secure them the way they should have, many mass shootings might have been avoided. There should be prison sentences for parents who allow their children to get hold of these guns. They don't even have to shoot anyone, just getting hold of the gun should be enough to earn prison time for the careless owner.

If a gun is properly secured (trigger lock, locked inside a gun safe) then how exactly is buying it for protection any sort of justification for ownership at all? :? Can't really draw it and shoot someone who needs to die if it's safely double locked up and unloaded.


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Dox47
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01 Oct 2022, 1:30 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
If a gun is properly secured (trigger lock, locked inside a gun safe) then how exactly is buying it for protection any sort of justification for ownership at all? :? Can't really draw it and shoot someone who needs to die if it's safely double locked up and unloaded.


Funny you should mention that, as it was precisely that reasoning that was used to strike down some of the more draconian gun storage laws in various US cities, specifically Washington DC, which didn't allow handgun ownership at all and required that long guns not only be locked up, but disassembled, defeating the entire purpose of owning one for home protection. Heller wiped that one right on out and McDonald applied it to the states, while Bruen has extended the right to keep a gun outside the home for self defense, among other things.

Personally, I have a safe bolted to the floor in a closet that most of my guns live in when not in use, but the handgun that I carry outside the home moves from my belt to a magnet screwed to the back of my nightstand when I'm home, so it's out of sight but readily accessible for the proverbial bump in the night. It also gets a light makeover when it goes from my belt to my nightstand, acquiring an extremely bright mounted light and a silencer, so that I can be sure of what I'm shooting at in the dark and won't deafen myself with the blast if I have to fire a shot in the house, useful features that are too bulky to carry concealed throughout the day. The silencer actually has a dual purpose in that it's scary to most people, who only have ever seen them in the movies and thus associate them with spies and assassins and so might conclude that they really broke into the wrong house and that I wouldn't hesitate to shoot, making them more likely to surrender rather than trying me. Basically, it's a way of sending a signal that might make it less likely that I have to actually shoot an intruder, as I'd prefer not to have to kill someone if I can help it.


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goldfish21
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01 Oct 2022, 1:42 pm

There must be a lot more boogiemen in the USA if they’re recognized by federal judges as needing to be scared off by brandishing guns in the night.


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Dox47
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01 Oct 2022, 1:49 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
It seems gun ownership is also tied to fear of not being able to buy/own guns anymore. Or at least that's what was reported about Obama being the greatest gun salesman in America, ever.. seeing as more guns were sold during his presidency than any other to date.

Just googled to see if that was still the case.. nope, Joey B takes the cake now. Americans have bought way more guns in the last 2 years than ever. This time I don't think it's because people believe Biden is about to cancel gun sales - haven't really seen any headlines like that this time around.. more so it's likely preparation for civil unrest - definitely been plenty of headlines about that.

Just scroll down the google results and skim the headlines - gun sales have been pretty cyclical depending on who's in the whitehouse:

https://www.google.com/search?q=most+gu ... e&ie=UTF-8


This is largely true, I actually bought my first AR15 in 2016 when I thought for sure Hilary was going to win, as I wanted to get one before the prices spiked in anticipation of her pushing a ban (I was thinking I might flip it for cash if the prices went up enough). Then Trump won, and the bottom fell out of the AR15 market, all the companies had been running their assembly lines 24/7 in anticipation of an incoming Democratic administration pushing gun control and spiking demand, but with Trump in office the industry experienced what became known as the Trump Slump, and suddenly guns got really, really cheap, particularly the standardized models like the AR15 and the G3 Glocks that are off patent and thus have multiple manufacturers. I was able to buy multiple AR build kits for under $400 each and fell in love with the platform, which I'd previously turned my nose up at as boring and overpriced, once I realized just how modular and easy to work on it is and how many variations and modifications could be made to it. There's also the fun fact that the modular design makes it easy to skirt guns laws with it, as the only controlled part, the receiver, can be built into many different configurations, including rifles, pistols, shotguns, and "firearms" (configurations that don't fit any of the standard definitions and thus exist in a legal grey area), so when you buy a stripped receiver it transfers as an "other" that doesn't trigger any waiting periods or training requirements, plus the government doesn't know what you built it into. But I digress.

You could definitely see the effect you described here in Washington state, where our anti gun AG Turd Ferguson pushed through a ten round magazine restriction earlier in the year in a shady middle of the night legislative session, and the result was that basically every standard capacity magazine in the state was bought up overnight, and every gun company in the country prioritized shipping to Washington right up to the eve of the ban taking effect in July, flooding the state with more magazines than ever would have been sold had that jackass not pushed his stupid law on us. His law isn't even long for this world either, as the Bruen decision makes it unconstitutional, and it's going to fall along with the one in the PRK once the 9th circus stops pretending they don't understand the plain English of the ruling. I'd like to see the man afflicted with the most painful and undignified form of asscancer for screwing with my rights like this, but I'll settle for seeing his face when his crowning legislative achievement turns to ash in his mouth.


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Dox47
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01 Oct 2022, 1:51 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
There must be a lot more boogiemen in the USA if they’re recognized by federal judges as needing to be scared off by brandishing guns in the night.


Actually, statistically home invasion robberies are rarer in the US than they are in Canada and the UK, and inmate surveys indicate that the reason is that American burglars don't want to be shot by homeowners, so they take great pains to insure that no one is home before breaking in.


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goldfish21
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01 Oct 2022, 2:17 pm

Dox47 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
There must be a lot more boogiemen in the USA if they’re recognized by federal judges as needing to be scared off by brandishing guns in the night.


Actually, statistically home invasion robberies are rarer in the US than they are in Canada and the UK, and inmate surveys indicate that the reason is that American burglars don't want to be shot by homeowners, so they take great pains to insure that no one is home before breaking in.


Yeah, I was thinking you’d have to be a special kind of stupid burglar to break into a home in the USA while anyone was home.. bye bye face/entire blood volume etc.


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goldfish21
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01 Oct 2022, 2:23 pm

Dox47 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
It seems gun ownership is also tied to fear of not being able to buy/own guns anymore. Or at least that's what was reported about Obama being the greatest gun salesman in America, ever.. seeing as more guns were sold during his presidency than any other to date.

Just googled to see if that was still the case.. nope, Joey B takes the cake now. Americans have bought way more guns in the last 2 years than ever. This time I don't think it's because people believe Biden is about to cancel gun sales - haven't really seen any headlines like that this time around.. more so it's likely preparation for civil unrest - definitely been plenty of headlines about that.

Just scroll down the google results and skim the headlines - gun sales have been pretty cyclical depending on who's in the whitehouse:

https://www.google.com/search?q=most+gu ... e&ie=UTF-8


This is largely true, I actually bought my first AR15 in 2016 when I thought for sure Hilary was going to win, as I wanted to get one before the prices spiked in anticipation of her pushing a ban (I was thinking I might flip it for cash if the prices went up enough). Then Trump won, and the bottom fell out of the AR15 market, all the companies had been running their assembly lines 24/7 in anticipation of an incoming Democratic administration pushing gun control and spiking demand, but with Trump in office the industry experienced what became known as the Trump Slump, and suddenly guns got really, really cheap, particularly the standardized models like the AR15 and the G3 Glocks that are off patent and thus have multiple manufacturers. I was able to buy multiple AR build kits for under $400 each and fell in love with the platform, which I'd previously turned my nose up at as boring and overpriced, once I realized just how modular and easy to work on it is and how many variations and modifications could be made to it. There's also the fun fact that the modular design makes it easy to skirt guns laws with it, as the only controlled part, the receiver, can be built into many different configurations, including rifles, pistols, shotguns, and "firearms" (configurations that don't fit any of the standard definitions and thus exist in a legal grey area), so when you buy a stripped receiver it transfers as an "other" that doesn't trigger any waiting periods or training requirements, plus uthe government doesn't know what you built it into. But I digress.

You could definitely see the effect you described here in Washington state, where our anti gun AG Turd Ferguson pushed through a ten round magazine restriction earlier in the year in a shady middle of the night legislative session, and the result was that basically every standard capacity magazine in the state was bought up overnight, and every gun company in the country prioritized shipping to Washington right up to the eve of the ban taking effect in July, flooding the state with more magazines than ever would have been sold had that jackass not pushed his stupid law on us. His law isn't even long for this world either, as the Bruen decision makes it unconstitutional, and it's going to fall along with the one in the PRK once the 9th circus stops pretending they don't understand the plain English of the ruling. I'd like to see the man afflicted with the most painful and undignified form of asscancer for screwing with my rights like this, but I'll settle for seeing his face when his crowning legislative achievement turns to ash in his mouth.



Aaah, yes.. I’m curious where in the US constitution’s gun rights section does it mention AR receivers or high capacity magazines ? :?

..pretty sure they wrote stuff about having the right to bear arms that had been imagined & conceived.. like muskets. Slaughter machines hadn’t even been dreamt up yet. So weird to apply a written statement from the 1700’s to all weapons of war into perpetuity. IMO.

But I’m one of those people that liked the movie “Runaway Jury.” 8)


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Dox47
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01 Oct 2022, 2:59 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Aaah, yes.. I’m curious where in the US constitution’s gun rights section does it mention AR receivers or high capacity magazines ? :?

..pretty sure they wrote stuff about having the right to bear arms that had been imagined & conceived.. like muskets. Slaughter machines hadn’t even been dreamt up yet. So weird to apply a written statement from the 1700’s to all weapons of war into perpetuity. IMO.

But I’m one of those people that liked the movie “Runaway Jury.” 8)


Right next to the section where they described how the first amendment applied to the internet.


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Dox47
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01 Oct 2022, 3:10 pm

Own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended.


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goldfish21
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01 Oct 2022, 3:14 pm

When’s the last time four ruffians broke into yours or anyone you personally know’s home, necessitating a musket response?


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Persephone29
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01 Oct 2022, 6:18 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
It seems gun ownership is also tied to fear of not being able to buy/own guns anymore. Or at least that's what was reported about Obama being the greatest gun salesman in America, ever.. seeing as more guns were sold during his presidency than any other to date.

Just googled to see if that was still the case.. nope, Joey B takes the cake now. Americans have bought way more guns in the last 2 years than ever. This time I don't think it's because people believe Biden is about to cancel gun sales - haven't really seen any headlines like that this time around.. more so it's likely preparation for civil unrest - definitely been plenty of headlines about that.

Just scroll down the google results and skim the headlines - gun sales have been pretty cyclical depending on who's in the whitehouse:

https://www.google.com/search?q=most+gu ... e&ie=UTF-8


In 2017 there were 40 Million more guns than people in the US. I'm sure those numbers have grown. And those are just the guns sales they know have taken place. When facing numbers like that, it should be a little easier to comprehend why a female, minority would feel the need to own at least one gun for protection. Or any average person, for that matter. It's what they do with it after they buy it that's of utmost importance.

1. Practice using it
2. Secure it between uses

Ironically, these seem to be the hardest to follow through with.

I don't own any assault rifles. But, I'm not against them. If the people who were exercising their constitutional right to own one had taken steps to secure them the way they should have, many mass shootings might have been avoided. There should be prison sentences for parents who allow their children to get hold of these guns. They don't even have to shoot anyone, just getting hold of the gun should be enough to earn prison time for the careless owner.

If a gun is properly secured (trigger lock, locked inside a gun safe) then how exactly is buying it for protection any sort of justification for ownership at all? :? Can't really draw it and shoot someone who needs to die if it's safely double locked up and unloaded.


I didn't specify how it should be secured. A kid shouldn't be able to get hold of it. I have mine in a small gun case, with a lock. It's secured and it would take me about 2 minutes to get it. My dog would be barking, so I wouldn't need to rely on just my ears. I don't conceal carry, I just make my usual safe circuit and take my chances outside of my castle.


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cyberdad
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01 Oct 2022, 6:22 pm

It would seem a major reason for the uptake of gun registration and high powered weapons among minorities seems obvious
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... cans-surge



Last edited by cyberdad on 01 Oct 2022, 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Persephone29
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01 Oct 2022, 6:25 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Any reason my post was removed?


Pardon me, but you keep mentioning T****. And it's gone out of fashion.


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