Indonesia to ban sex outside of marriage

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cyberdad
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06 Dec 2022, 1:02 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
KitLily wrote:

We went to buy our 16 year old daughter new ankle boots. She wanted some with pencil heels, very elegant. But I said no, she must have boots with low heels and grippy soles so she can run if necessary. She walks from her college to the bus in the dark, I want her to be able to sprint out of trouble if she has to, not break an ankle.


I wish they'd force abusers and rapists to wear pencil heels along with the ankle bracelet.
It would make a nice look and help give us the advantage.


In addition I think parents should also download electronic beepers to their kids phones that set of an alarm when a registered pedophile is within 200m of their child



KitLily
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06 Dec 2022, 7:09 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
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I get that women are more afraid but aren't most cases of rape committed by someone the victim knows rather than strangers on the street?

It doesn't go straight to rape though, there is a vast range of nasty things that can happen that aren't rape:

Shouting abuse, groping, rubbing up against someone, name calling, throwing things, upskirting, general threatening, following, mugging, spraying something, spiking drinks, hitting.

Many more that I can't think of right now. These may seem trivial compared to rape but when you're alone/ at night/ in an unfamiliar place (or all 3), they are scary- we don't know what the man's intention is. What is his goal? Raping or killing us? Trying to be funny? Anything in between? One of the 'minor' offences can be the prelude to worse.

e.g. many times I've been going somewhere on my own/ at night/ in an unfamiliar place (or all 3) and a man has shouted 'ugly b**ch' at me, even approached to shout in my face. He turns to his gang of laughing mates, all jeering and mocking. I stop for a second in shock. What should I do? Run? Shout rude things back? Laugh? Erm... And what happens with each of those responses? If I run, would they chase me? If I shout rude things back, would it make them angry, or lead them on? If I laugh, is that giving the message that shouting rude things at women they don't know is fine and okay?

So many calculations to make in a split second. What. Should. I. Do?

And secondly, this sort of thing happens every day to women. Time after Time after Time after Time after Time after Time after Time after Time after Time after Time after Time after Time after Time...

It gets wearing, tiring, it drains us. Every day, strangers on the street making rude comments or doing rude things to us. We are exhausted, yet have to be on the alert every second, just in case. Every. Second.





Thank you for such a brilliant post, Kit. ^

I'd add exploitation, forced parenting, and trafficking to your list. Not to mention femicide.


You're welcome.

Yes of course I couldn't possibly think of every single type of violence against women, there will always be something I forget.

I don't think men realise what we put up with every single day, it's a woman's life. It's not always 'serious crime' like rape. It's the constant undermining, pushing our boundaries, trying to get a reaction.

I've decided if one more man hassles me on the bus, I will shout 'Leave me alone, rude, frightening stranger!' To make it clear to the public that it is not a 'lover's tiff' or 'a private matter.' It is a man I do not know hassling me for absolutely no reason.


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Last edited by KitLily on 06 Dec 2022, 7:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

KitLily
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06 Dec 2022, 7:10 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
KitLily wrote:

We went to buy our 16 year old daughter new ankle boots. She wanted some with pencil heels, very elegant. But I said no, she must have boots with low heels and grippy soles so she can run if necessary. She walks from her college to the bus in the dark, I want her to be able to sprint out of trouble if she has to, not break an ankle.


I wish they'd force abusers and rapists to wear pencil heels along with the ankle bracelet.
It would make a nice look and help give us the advantage.


haha yes. It would be great.


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KitLily
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06 Dec 2022, 7:14 am

cyberdad wrote:
In addition I think parents should also download electronic beepers to their kids phones that set of an alarm when a registered pedophile is within 200m of their child


What about the non-registered paedophiles?

I downloaded apps onto mine and my daughter's phones that locate her to within a few metres. Unfortunately they only work with Wi-Fi and drain the battery extremely quickly, so aren't that useful :roll: If she was in an area with no Wi-Fi it wouldn't help and obviously if kidnappers took her phone away it's no good. It would just be 'she was last seen at X location.'

It's a big worry.


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Jono
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06 Dec 2022, 7:26 am

KitLily wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
In addition I think parents should also download electronic beepers to their kids phones that set of an alarm when a registered pedophile is within 200m of their child


What about the non-registered paedophiles?

I downloaded apps onto mine and my daughter's phones that locate her to within a few metres. Unfortunately they only work with Wi-Fi and drain the battery extremely quickly, so aren't that useful :roll: If she was in an area with no Wi-Fi it wouldn't help and obviously if kidnappers took her phone away it's no good. It would just be 'she was last seen at X location.'

It's a big worry.


GPS locators don't require an internet connection though, I'm not sure what kind of app you're using. It's the same technology used in Apple devices for things like "find my mac" or "find my iPhone". If it's activated, you can locate it via GPS as soon as it get's turned on if they're stolen. I would have thought that that's the kind of technology that they'd use in apps for child monitoring. Maybe your particular kind of phone doesn't have that capability and that's why it requires wifi.



Last edited by Jono on 06 Dec 2022, 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

KitLily
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06 Dec 2022, 7:28 am

Jono wrote:

GPS locators don't require an internet connection though, I'm not sure what kind of app you're using. It's the same technology used in Apple devices for things like "find my mac" or "find my iPhone". If it's activated, you can locate it via GPS as soon as it get's turned on if they're stolen.


Really! Now that's useful. Is it the mobile network that is used? But they still drain the batteries like anything :( We need ones that don't drain the batteries.


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IsabellaLinton
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06 Dec 2022, 8:28 am

Did you try Life 360, KitLily?



cyberdad
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06 Dec 2022, 3:56 pm

KitLily wrote:
What about the non-registered paedophiles?
.


This is a scary topic. One that isn't discussed in normal conversation. The reality is that most heterosexual men find young girls sexually attractive once they hit a certain age. It's just most of us don't act on these urges or entertain these thoughts because of social conditioning. For example an attractive school girl walks past I don't look.

Unfortunately a lot of men if given the opportunity might become predators. I think this is referred to in psychology as a subcategory of pedophilia and it's a spectrum.



KitLily
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07 Dec 2022, 3:42 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Did you try Life 360, KitLily?


Yes, it's a battery drainer :?


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KitLily
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07 Dec 2022, 3:51 am

cyberdad wrote:
KitLily wrote:
What about the non-registered paedophiles?
.


This is a scary topic. One that isn't discussed in normal conversation. The reality is that most heterosexual men find young girls sexually attractive once they hit a certain age. It's just most of us don't act on these urges or entertain these thoughts because of social conditioning. For example an attractive school girl walks past I don't look.

Unfortunately a lot of men if given the opportunity might become predators. I think this is referred to in psychology as a subcategory of pedophilia and it's a spectrum.


That's the problem isn't it: how do girls and women tell which men are predators and which are not? You all look the same to us, there's no neon flashing sign over the ones who will act on their urges.

So we must treat you all as if you are dangerous. Unfair but true.

We have to hope that benevolent men will help us if we are in danger.

e.g. distracting the man who is attacking us. You can ask him a question such as: 'hey mate, what's the time? My phone's gone dead.' 'Hey mate, where's the fish and chip shop?' 'Can you tell me the way to _____please?' Something innocent like that.

A friend online said she was going somewhere late at night and a man started following her. She didn't know where to turn, there was no help nearby, so she went up to the biggest man she could see and asked, 'please help me. That man is following me, can you distract him while I get away?'

LUCKILY...the man was kind and said 'sure.' And he distracted the follower while my friend ran for it.

That was risky and she was lucky. Because the big man could ALSO have been a predator, but she had no choice at that time.

This is what we need men to do. Help us when we are in trouble. You don't have to get into a fist fight, just distract the predator somehow while we get away. Generally they are cowards and prey on women, so when a man gets involved, all their bravado disappears.


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cyberdad
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07 Dec 2022, 6:15 am

KitLily wrote:
That's the problem isn't it: how do girls and women tell which men are predators and which are not? You all look the same to us, there's no neon flashing sign over the ones who will act on their urges.


I guess the safest course of action is not to engage with men unless they are introduced to you through a trusted family member or friend. These are some of the risks women face if they start chatting to a strange man on the train or while having a drink at the bar,

One of the repurcussions of this sex ban in Indonesia is it will make it much more dangerous for young women as there will be more sex deprived single men roaming the streets.



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07 Dec 2022, 8:25 am

cyberdad wrote:
KitLily wrote:
That's the problem isn't it: how do girls and women tell which men are predators and which are not? You all look the same to us, there's no neon flashing sign over the ones who will act on their urges.


I guess the safest course of action is not to engage with men unless they are introduced to you through a trusted family member or friend. These are some of the risks women face if they start chatting to a strange man on the train or while having a drink at the bar,

One of the repurcussions of this sex ban in Indonesia is it will make it much more dangerous for young women as there will be more sex deprived single men roaming the streets.


Actually, that's not what will make it more dangerous for women. What will though is that women will not be able able to report sexual assaults to police without being charged themselves. Besides, people will have sex outside of marriage regardless of what the law says, there is no time in history when such laws have ever stopped that from happening and they are only usually only ever enforced on women, not on men. (women get horny too, don't they?).



IsabellaLinton
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07 Dec 2022, 9:56 am

KitLily wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
In addition I think parents should also download electronic beepers to their kids phones that set of an alarm when a registered pedophile is within 200m of their child


What about the non-registered paedophiles?

I downloaded apps onto mine and my daughter's phones that locate her to within a few metres. Unfortunately they only work with Wi-Fi and drain the battery extremely quickly, so aren't that useful :roll: If she was in an area with no Wi-Fi it wouldn't help and obviously if kidnappers took her phone away it's no good. It would just be 'she was last seen at X location.'

It's a big worry.


I hate to even think about these topics but I've been through it myself.
My advice for you and your daughter in the event of abduction is to leave DNA or items, like breadcrumbs.
Keep your fingernails long so you can scratch them -- to get their DNA.
Bite the person, again for DNA but also bite mark ID.
Drop a shoe, drop your wallet, pull out some hair, whatever you can leave behind.
Pull their hair or touch their clothes to get their DNA / fibres.
Spit on the ground for DNA.
Break a finger nail and leave it there.
Personalise yourself.
Talk about your family and friends etc. so you are a real person to them and not just a prize.
Do everything in your power not to leave with them.
Fight to the death if you have to, to avoid going in their vehicle.
Don't assume you can get where you're going and then escape.
Run in zig zags.
Run the opposite direction of what they'd expect / the opposite of where they're going.
Make a hell of a lot of noise.
Yell FIRE -- people are more likely to call emergency services than if you yell HELP.
Roll underneath a parked car if you have no other escape, assuming you're smaller than them.
The first hour is critical as you know.



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07 Dec 2022, 10:20 am

I understand the reasoning behind all this monitoring-----it's a pity there have to be perverts out there.

But.....it really rankles me. I wouldn't want my mother monitoring me like that.

Fortunately, I grew up in the 60s/70s, before cell phones, and I lived in an area which had very few pay phones. I could go out from sunup to sundown without some helicopter parent breathing down my throat, planning "play dates" for me.



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07 Dec 2022, 10:53 am

This is nuts.

Biological fact is that sex has existed for far longer than the man made concept of marriage.

To suggest that one Has To Be Married in order to bone is riiiiiiidiculous.

LOL, imagine if I were Indonesian I'd have to have been married 618 times so far. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Even if I ever DID get married, I don't think I'd travel to a place with this sort of law on the books and pump money into their economy. Plenty of other beautiful places to travel to that don't oppress their citizens/visitors like this.


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07 Dec 2022, 10:55 am

Laos is also a beautiful place.

The trouble is: they don't allow a man/woman combo to share a hotel room, unless they're married.