Indonesia to ban sex outside of marriage

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IsabellaLinton
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07 Dec 2022, 8:55 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I understand the reasoning behind all this monitoring-----it's a pity there have to be perverts out there.

But.....it really rankles me. I wouldn't want my mother monitoring me like that.

Fortunately, I grew up in the 60s/70s, before cell phones, and I lived in an area which had very few pay phones. I could go out from sunup to sundown without some helicopter parent breathing down my throat, planning "play dates" for me.



Same. My parents didn't do anything to protect me in terms of supervision. I was alone all the time: walking to and from school by myself from age 5, and roaming outside whenever I wanted (I prefer dark, so I liked to go out at night. I liked to hide in the bushes of people's back yards and listen to crickets.)

My parents never told me about sex, or about predators. Nothing. I was SA when I was 7 but I didn't have a clue what it was all about, or what to do. I didn't tell anyone. When I was about 13 my parents gave me a 14 carat gold whistle which was a slim little tube I could wear on a long necklace. They used to laugh about it being a "rape whistle". I don't think that's what it was meant to be at the jewellery store but my parents called it that without giving me any information. I remember it was a very quiet, almost inaudible sound, so it wouldn't have worked if I'd tried.

My daughter learned about SA the hard way because of what I went through when she was little. There was also a suspected case against her when she was young but despite a police investigation it remained inconclusive. She doesn't remember it but I think it's in her subconscious. She is very proactive about self-protection at night or in groups of people, and with internet safety. I've never put a tracker on her phone, mostly because she doesn't really go anywhere. I pay for her phone so I know I could get records from the phone company without a court order, if needed. She also has location data on her social media and her best friend can always see where she is (I'll ask her what it's called but it's just between the two of them.) My car has a black box which tells where it's been and all the diagnostics including when windows went up or down, the speed, location, and other info. I can't access that directly but at least I know it's there. Any time she uses Uber or Lyft she puts it on my account so I can watch the car driving her home. She prefers it that way. I keep screenshots of the licence plate and the driver's name. I guess every little bit helps.

I hate to say but it's a privilege for most men that they don't have to worry about assault, trafficking, and gender-based violence. Of course men are still vulnerable to all of the above, but it's much less likely and I don't think it's engrained in their psyches the way it is for girls, women, and transwomen. Some woman tried to kidnap my son in a shopping mall when he was 12. I was about 20 feet away with an obstructed view, and another woman intervened to stop it. I'm grateful for that woman every day of my life.



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08 Dec 2022, 12:59 am

Quote:
Indonesia to ban sex outside of marriage


What a f-ing non-f-ing joke. :mrgreen:


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And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

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08 Dec 2022, 12:50 pm

cyberdad wrote:
I guess the safest course of action is not to engage with men unless they are introduced to you through a trusted family member or friend.


But then...it is well known that most rapes (and murders) are done by people the victim knows, so that is equally dangerous.

So what are we to do? Avoid strange men and also men we don't know? Just avoid men completely?

I think it's also more dangerous now because there are simply more humans around. When I was little in the 1970s, the Earth's population was about 4.5 billion. Now it's double that. So there are just more dangerous people out there...


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08 Dec 2022, 12:52 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I hate to even think about these topics but I've been through it myself.
My advice for you and your daughter in the event of abduction is to leave DNA or items, like breadcrumbs.
Keep your fingernails long so you can scratch them -- to get their DNA.
Bite the person, again for DNA but also bite mark ID.
Drop a shoe, drop your wallet, pull out some hair, whatever you can leave behind.
Pull their hair or touch their clothes to get their DNA / fibres.
Spit on the ground for DNA.
Break a finger nail and leave it there.
Personalise yourself.
Talk about your family and friends etc. so you are a real person to them and not just a prize.
Do everything in your power not to leave with them.
Fight to the death if you have to, to avoid going in their vehicle.
Don't assume you can get where you're going and then escape.
Run in zig zags.
Run the opposite direction of what they'd expect / the opposite of where they're going.
Make a hell of a lot of noise.
Yell FIRE -- people are more likely to call emergency services than if you yell HELP.
Roll underneath a parked car if you have no other escape, assuming you're smaller than them.
The first hour is critical as you know.


Thanks Isabella! Awful to think about it but it seems we have to. At first I thought you meant real breadcrumbs, but then I realised, lol.

Like I made sure my daughter has boots with sturdy, grippy heels so she can run if she has to.


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KitLily
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08 Dec 2022, 12:57 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I understand the reasoning behind all this monitoring-----it's a pity there have to be perverts out there.

But.....it really rankles me. I wouldn't want my mother monitoring me like that.

Fortunately, I grew up in the 60s/70s, before cell phones, and I lived in an area which had very few pay phones. I could go out from sunup to sundown without some helicopter parent breathing down my throat, planning "play dates" for me.


Same here, I was a 1970s kid- but we were still not allowed to go onto the heath and play there, due to weirdos who lurked there.

And also...with all the monitoring options available today...if a child goes missing, the parents will be victim blamed like anything.

'Why weren't the parents monitoring the child?' 'Why were they out alone?' 'Why weren't the parents more careful?' Why why why why why. And the parents may get the blame for their child being kidnapped. So it's safer to monitor your kids for your own sake, as well as theirs.


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08 Dec 2022, 1:08 pm

@ KitLily,

I asked my daughter what she uses with her bff to know where each other is. She said it's called Location Services and it's on iPhone. I don't know what kind of phones you have, or if you've already tried that. She also said if you both have Snapchat you can use the Snapchat map?

Image

I was also thinking of Apple Air Tags but apparently you have to be within 100m for it to work.

Will take a look at apps that don't kill batteries, later on, if you'd like.



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08 Dec 2022, 1:43 pm

Thanks Isabella, any help you can give is appreciated. My daughter is only 16.

Recently she was meeting her college group at the railway station. She was early and there were weirdos outside so she had to buy a ticket to go inside the building. If she had felt safe waiting she could have got the group discount with her college group but she had to pay full price to be safer... :x


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08 Dec 2022, 2:25 pm

KitLily wrote:
Thanks Isabella, any help you can give is appreciated. My daughter is only 16.

Recently she was meeting her college group at the railway station. She was early and there were weirdos outside so she had to buy a ticket to go inside the building. If she had felt safe waiting she could have got the group discount with her college group but she had to pay full price to be safer... :x


She's in college at 16?



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08 Dec 2022, 3:15 pm

KitLily wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I think it's also more dangerous now because there are simply more humans around. When I was little in the 1970s, the Earth's population was about 4.5 billion. Now it's double that. So there are just more dangerous people out there...


The late 1960s saw the end of the nuclear family and the urbanisation into new housing estates mean't people started avoiding their neighbors so the world we all live in became colder and less friendly.

I know people make "sea changes" and move to the countryside to be part of a local community where they know everyone. My sister temporarily lived in a suburb in rural Victoria outside of Melbourne where everyone knew each other. My nephew was born she used to leave him with neighbors and by the time he was 5 he was walking around by himself outside as the street knew him and kept an eye on him.



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09 Dec 2022, 8:47 am

Jono wrote:
KitLily wrote:
Thanks Isabella, any help you can give is appreciated. My daughter is only 16.

Recently she was meeting her college group at the railway station. She was early and there were weirdos outside so she had to buy a ticket to go inside the building. If she had felt safe waiting she could have got the group discount with her college group but she had to pay full price to be safer... :x


She's in college at 16?


Yes? She's at Further Education college after she took GCSE exams at school.


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KitLily
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09 Dec 2022, 8:51 am

cyberdad wrote:
The late 1960s saw the end of the nuclear family and the urbanisation into new housing estates mean't people started avoiding their neighbors so the world we all live in became colder and less friendly.

I know people make "sea changes" and move to the countryside to be part of a local community where they know everyone. My sister temporarily lived in a suburb in rural Victoria outside of Melbourne where everyone knew each other. My nephew was born she used to leave him with neighbors and by the time he was 5 he was walking around by himself outside as the street knew him and kept an eye on him.


Yes, you hit the nail on the head there. People live on their own separate tracks now, not interacting.

Hahahaha. Yes. We moved to the countryside to get out of London. But the village we moved to is very inward-looking and kind of inbred. Everyone is related to everyone else and it's a little clique. I used to be good at making friends, but it didn't work here. My husband is an expert at making friends, but he didn't make any here, all his friends live in other towns/villages. My daughter has lived here from birth and everyone knows her, but all her friends live in other towns/villages. It is not a friendly village.

Counting the days til we move somewhere that is 4x the size, a little town that is more welcoming. I'm fed up with Stepford.


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09 Dec 2022, 9:02 am

"College" in the UK is rather similar to "vocational school" in the US. Or it could be a "Sixth-Form College," where there is preparation to take the A-Levels, which would provide qualifications to get into University.

In the US, people seek trades qualifications within a self-contained "trade" school, or there are courses within 2-year colleges. I should say "trades," and other sorts of qualifications, like x-ray technician or medical coder.

When somebody is going to "college" in the UK, they are not going to "university," unless they're going to a certain "college" within somewhere like Cambridge or Oxford. In the US, "college" is almost always "university."

In France, I believe, "college" is actually equivalent to middle school.



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09 Dec 2022, 9:47 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
"College" in the UK is rather similar to "vocational school" in the US. Or it could be a "Sixth-Form College," where there is preparation to take the A-Levels, which would provide qualifications to get into University.

In the US, people seek trades qualifications within a self-contained "trade" school, or there are courses within 2-year colleges. I should say "trades," and other sorts of qualifications, like x-ray technician or medical coder.

When somebody is going to "college" in the UK, they are not going to "university," unless they're going to a certain "college" within somewhere like Cambridge or Oxford. In the US, "college" is almost always "university."

In France, I believe, "college" is actually equivalent to middle school.


Thanks KraftieKortie!

It's Sixth Form College (age 16-18) where students take A levels or vocational courses. My daughter is taking a Higher Diploma in Art and Design. They go onto university from there. We generally call it 'school' (age 4-16), 'college' (age 16-18) and 'university' (age 18+)

I think in France it is collège which is age 11-15, then the lycée which is 16-18.


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kraftiekortie
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09 Dec 2022, 9:56 am

Interestingly, some university/college students in the US continue to refer to attending college as "going to school." I've heard even doctoral candidates say that.

Informally, especially in sports, colleges could be "four-year schools."



KitLily
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09 Dec 2022, 10:01 am

Oh god that's confusing!


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kraftiekortie
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09 Dec 2022, 10:11 am

In the US, there are "colleges" which are components of universities, like Cambridge and Oxford have colleges (e.g., "the College of Dentistry at New York University."

We have both "2-year" and "4-year" colleges which confer university degrees, but they are their own entity, and are not part of a university (e.g., Marymount Manhattan College, where I got my bachelors).

The 2-year colleges never confer bachelors degrees, though---only associates degrees, and you can transfer to a 4-year college with an associates degree. Some people start in 2-year colleges (usually known as "community colleges"). Some people actually start in 4-year colleges.

In both 2-year and 4-year colleges, there are certificate programs where you could obtain vocational-type qualifications, though in practice most of these programs are within 2-year colleges.