Donald Trump has been indicted.

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omg the irony in this post..

Biden's track record as potus is actually pretty good - hence the jobs creation, deficit reduction etc.

Don't know enough about tulsi gabbard to comment on her politics, but if you're promoting her I'm guessing she's one of those democrats that may as well be a republican.

Which corrupt goons? Please be specific in their names as well as the specific corruption they're involved in and have been convicted of vs. merely said to be corrupt on fox news. Polarization is more a result of biased media than actual policies by anyone in government.

Who's pandering to a select group of people? Pretty sure politicians are casting as wide a net as they can to capture as many votes as they can.. well, except for republican politicians who seem to be going ever farther right as well as white while ignoring centrists, leftists, and any melanated Americans.

"Burning everything," is a result of far right wing biased media promoting culture war issues because republican politicians don't have any policies to run their platform on. That's why the fringe right are literally banning and burning books, proudly displaying their ignorance and the ignorance they wish to thrust upon their children who won't be taught any variety of perspectives in their upbringings.. all of which is a part of the way out there whacko s**t of those to the right of politics in the USA today; focused on getting American history banned from being taught in schools, hating on trans kids and their families, withdrawing medical services from women, and taking a bow to russia's putin and his system of oligarchy all while not having a single clue that a vote for their favourite culture war shouty-shout talking head representative is a vote to reduce their own educations, healthcare, pensions, social services etc as the republican party seeks to have mind control over morons while enriching their corporate Billionaire donors and elevating them to the level of fascist adviser & confidant to whomever their false idol of the moment happens to be.

Gross. Glad I live in Canada where we just have regular corrupt politicians jerking each other off instead of all that crazy BS.

Last edited by goldfish21 on 26 Mar 2023, 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I don't know that much about Gabbard. She was a candidate in the 2020 Democratic "primary" but I don't know if she is currently or ever was a card-carrying Democrat.

What I do know is she's a big supporter of Vladimir Putin and this acquaintance of ours who always votes "third party" has spoken highly of her. He is also a big proponent of taking Russia's issues with Ukraine seriously and the evilness of NATO.

I don't care to do any further research on Gabbard.

As I figured; she’s nuts.

Sorry, but I see a lot of democrats who list 'far right' candidates as a big reason for the divide. But when a conservative suggests a more moderate democrat as a similar solution it's a 'no go.' That's why the divide remains.

..because they’re suggesting someone with a label as a democrat who has gross maga-esque politics. That’s why it’s a no go.

Last edited by goldfish21 on 27 Mar 2023, 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

I apologize if this comes across as picking on you. I don't mean to. But why we have this divide? It has nothing to do with who the Democrats put up for election.

I don't see Tulsi Gabbard as moderate; I see her as a little bit nuts. Inconsistent. She also isn't a Democrat anymore; she officially left the party.

Biden is a moderate Democrat. Bernie Sanders is not.

Biden has a history of working across the aisle. Democrats let go of boatloads of popular priorities in electing him. He recently sided with Republicans against a priority of his own party. Alaskan oil leases if I recall. Or something like that. Are you aware of that? Biden is a classic, moderate Democrat. He has been seen that way his entire career. A bit establishment, with a troublesome son, but moderate.

I'm not onboard with all Democrat party policy ideas myself.

It wouldn't matter who the Democrats put up. The right wing media and the Russian propaganda bot system would make sure half the country saw them as something they weren't. None of this split is about actual policy anymore; its anger for the sake of being angry, occurring to varying degrees on both sides of the aisle, and there is no rational solution to that beyond learning how to not fall for it.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 27 Mar 2023, 12:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

Aisle; but otherwise yes - agreed.

edited. Thanks.

She's nuts to YOU, why do you assume you're the best judge? In my experience with democrats, 'nuts' is a term they whip out when they don't like the person's stance on their pet passions.

I want a leader who focuses on a few things only : spending (stop it), defense (build it), and taking care of old or disabled people. If a person waffles while they figure out how it's done, I'll grant them a little clemency. That goes for both sides.

Biden is corrupt, he knew he had aspirations beyond the senate and sent his son to do his dirty work. The Biden family has benefitted financially from Hunter's dealings with Ukraine and China. In your heart, I think you know this, but you are so blinded by your own desire to have your party in the White House that you're willing to overlook it.

The only thing that happens when democrats are unwilling to consider a more moderate candidate is TRUMP. So while it's easy for the far left to sit back and pretend they have absolutely nothing to do with it, they helped to put Trump in office just as much as his supporters. When you are unwilling to compromise, you get the extreme candidate as the manifestation of frustration's only outlet.

During the midterms the Democrats give money to the most MAGA candidates in the Republican primaries with the correct assumption that it would help those candidates the win the nomination but would lose in the general election.

It will matter who they put up. While the effort to demonize the Democratic nominee will be quite successful it will not be completely successful. Sans something radical happening Biden will have a better chance to win then AOC.

IMHO the role of Russians and bots in general are overblown. The Republicans were quite successful at demonizing Democrats before bots came along. We had a Civil War before bots. I am not saying they have no role but at most they play a complementary role. In a tight election if they did not exist the Dem might lose an election they would have won election sans bots. But in a tight election you can say that about many factors.

It strains credulity that the progressives do not use bots and won’t learn how to use Artificial Intellegence.

Because two wrongs don’t make a right.

1. She is nuts.

2. You want a leader that stops spending? The I guess you've been a democrat voter your whole life then, eh? republicans claim to be the party of fiscal responsibility in their blah blah blah to voters, yet they're the ones who rack up debt and then when a democrat president comes in they have to get the country's finances back under control pretty much every time - the biggest example ever in the history of the USA being donnie trumplestiltskin who massively ballooned the federal debt bigglier than any other president in the history of the USA.

3. Corrupt presidents and their kids? Even IF hypothetically the Bidens are making some $ off of Joe's name, how much is it? A couple Mill? Maybe ? Now have a look at what trumpty dumpty and his kids just did.. never sold his businesses or stopped running them, took in Millions and Millions from foreign dignitaries via his hotels, ivanka was granted a bunch of patents from China while she was working in the white house, eric & don jr continued selling donnie's real estate all over the world - hundreds and hundreds of Millions worth while the orange guy still headed the company while he was president, his son in law got a $2 BILLION investment from the saudi's 6 months after leaving office, and hell what's her complicit face Melania even had a jewellery line she and the orange guy tried hawking straight on the white house website! There's no way you can whine that Hunter Biden, a Lawyer, scored a job and a paycheque on the board of some company and not scream from the rooftops about the trumps endlessly enriching themselves from taxpayers or abusing their political offices. WTF.

4. It's already been explained to you that democrats made a massive sacrifice in not supporting a progressive candidate that should have been in office, like Bernie Sanders, in order to put a more centrist moderate like Biden in the white house.

Former National Enquirer publisher testifies before Trump grand jury

What I know is that no one has shown me anything close to resembling proof that Biden is corrupt or benefiting from his son's misuse of his name. Hunter is a grown man responsible for his own actions, and while there is proof that Hunter tried to profit from his father's political career, there is no credible proof that his father did or even knew about what his son was doing. Hunter holds absolutely no political power on his own and does not function as any type of advisor to Biden. The "proof" of Biden Sr's corruption that has been shown to me on this board has unverifiable provenance, and thus does not meet a viable standard of proof. But I've also lived long enough to know that absolutely no one is perfect, and that if someone is perfect they likely aren't a very good leader, so there is a certain amount of "questionable" that I am willing to accept. To a point.

Trump started as a symptom, not a cause. Or, at least, he was until he let it all get to his head and tried to ensure he would never lose power. At this point in time, his fans are fanatical, but it didn't start that way. It started with people feeling mad and frustrated and looking for a candidate who seemed to "get" what they were feeling. His supporters back in 2016 weren't in it for the policy, they were in it for the sense of being heard, regardless of whether or not they actually were. I have conversations from that year still on my Facebook and probably here, as well. I know what my friends who supported Trump were saying and feeling.

I will concede that crazy is a matter of personal opinion, but the kind of scattered ideology and over-hyped personality I consider crazy, by nature, will never be accepted by a majority as moderate. You need someone much more bland if broad acceptance as a moderate is the goal. And lets be honest, this is why I find this conversation so funny, Biden has always been bland. He wasn't viewed as corrupt until it became a mission to make sure he was viewed that way, after Trump picked him early on as the one most likely to be able to beat him in an election and, thus, started to hammer on the theme. And, yet, Biden was still considered moderate enough by enough people, or the lesser of two evils by enough people, to win the 2020 election. By then, Trump had lost the support of many Republicans, moving into the realm of "crazy" and/or "dangerous" for them.

Regardless of the details, however, we can't stop the dangerous trends developing in our country until we address what has made so many people feel so angry. If it isn't one madman walking into that emotional void, it will be another, and madmen have an unfortunate habit of being able to disguise themselves and fool people. Any of us, and I am aware I can't count myself out of it, could get snared. The worry is that voters won't realize what they've chosen until its too late.

You want spending under control but to keep military spending and keep social security / disability. Well, do the math. There isn't much left to play with after that. What there IS to play with is the tax system, and while the tax system tends to sit on the official revenue side of the equation, there is a whole lot of spending equivalent built into it. Every tax break is, economically, just as much an expenditure as the obvious ones on the budget side. For individuals, the home mortgage interest deduction is a giant budget expenditure-equivalent subsidizing home ownership. Another is the lower capital gains rate afforded on stock and capital asset sales. Real estate investment comes with immense tax benefits in the way of tax free exchanges and the ultimate tax planning tool: free basis step up at death. For corporations, tax credits for research and development probably take the lions share, along with some huge pandemic related benefits. I'm not saying these are bad things, but they should be viewed in the same vein as a budget expenditure, which they are not.

I could write books on that concept if I didn't have a real life to return to. Point being, it is never as simple as the political discourse tries to make it look.