Harry Tracy, Desperado!

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06 Aug 2024, 10:30 pm

On this date, one hundred twenty two years ago, turn-of-the-century desperado died after a gun battle on a ranch near the town of Davenport, Washington. He is credited with killing eight men, escaping from two prisons, and having committed numerous hold ups.

https://www.wildwestextra.com/harry-tra ... ch-part-1/

https://www.legendsofamerica.com/harry-tracy/

https://spokanehistorical.org/items/show/321

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cyberdad
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07 Aug 2024, 5:21 pm

Fascinating where common words we use originate.

naturalplastic
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07 Aug 2024, 6:07 pm

cyberdad wrote:

Fascinating where common words we use originate.

????

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07 Aug 2024, 6:19 pm

Quote:

Desperado

From obsolete Spanish desperado, past participle of desperar, archaic form of desesperar (“to despair”), from Latin disperare (“to despair, to lose hope”), from prefix dis- + sperare (“to hope”). Doublet of desperate.

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naturalplastic
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07 Aug 2024, 6:51 pm

So he was talking about the one word "desperado"?

Like every other grade school kid in the English speaking world who every sat in front of a horse opera on TV I correctly deduced that the word "desperado" is derived from the Spanish word for "desperate person". Every word that has to do with the old west is derived from Spanish.

As we contemplate entomology ...lets hear some Linda Rhondstadt.

https://youtu.be/yUg10CPelvo

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08 Aug 2024, 3:03 am

Oh I thought that was the word "desparado" - in Australia we use it to refer to somebody who is desperate

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08 Aug 2024, 8:34 am

Sounds like he was out riding fences for too long.

He should have come to his senses and let somebody love him before it was too late.

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08 Aug 2024, 5:25 pm

cyberdad wrote:

Oh I thought that was the word "desparado" - in Australia we use it to refer to somebody who is desperate

Well, yes, a desperado or outlaw by his very nature acted out in desperation as he was on the run from the law for having committed crimes.

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08 Aug 2024, 5:28 pm

roronoa79 wrote:

Sounds like he was out riding fences for too long.

He should have come to his senses and let somebody love him before it was too late.

I recall how years ago, when a local author had written Harry Tracy The Last Desperado, the local news covering the story had played The Eagles song.

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08 Aug 2024, 5:34 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Oh I thought that was the word "desparado" - in Australia we use it to refer to somebody who is desperate

Well, yes, a desperado or outlaw by his very nature acted out in desperation as he was on the run from the law for having committed crimes.

It's got a comical/humorous element in Australia through it's colloquial use to pertain to somebody who is desperate and willing to do anything to get something or somebody.

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08 Aug 2024, 6:12 pm

cyberdad wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Oh I thought that was the word "desparado" - in Australia we use it to refer to somebody who is desperate

Well, yes, a desperado or outlaw by his very nature acted out in desperation as he was on the run from the law for having committed crimes.

It's got a comical/humorous element in Australia through it's colloquial use to pertain to somebody who is desperate and willing to do anything to get something or somebody.

Our two countries are separated by a common language.

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08 Aug 2024, 6:48 pm

Yes. Here in the States it bascially means "a fugitive from justice", and "an outlaw", especially one out of the legends of the old West. Americans rarely break the word down in their heads to even associate it with "being desperate".

Your word "desparado" probably evolved seperately, and out of the 20th Century British habit of sticking "oh" on the end of words (like turning the word "cheer" into "cheerio", or turning "command" into "commando raid"). Whereas our word's oh ending comes from the archaic Spanish spoken in what is now the Western US before we Anglos took over.

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08 Aug 2024, 7:26 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

Quote:

The term commando originally derives from Latin commendare, to recommend, via the Dutch word kommando, which translates as "a command or order" and also roughly to "mobile infantry regiment". This term originally referred to units of Boer mounted infantry, who fought during the Xhosa Wars and the First and Second Boer Wars. The Dutch word kommando, in turn, originated from the Portuguese term comando, used in India in the sense of a group of troops under an autonomous command that performed special missions during a battle or siege. The word was adopted into Afrikaans from interactions with the Portuguese in their nearby African colonies, in whose language the word comando means "command". In South Africa similar troops operated in small detachments, usually traveling on horseback, and launched rapid attacks against British troops. During the Second World War, both the British and the Germans decided to reuse this term to designate the new special operations troops they had formed (the British designated commandos and the German Kommandos). Later the term was used by other countries to designate some of their elite forces.

tl;dr: The Brits didn't add the 'o' to commando, it was already there when they borrowed the word.

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09 Aug 2024, 2:01 am

So an example of convergent evolution of words?

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09 Aug 2024, 8:16 am

Could well be.

There are other examples. Like in more ancient words in the English language...that have related meanings, AND similar sounds, but are of totally different origins.

Like the word "meal" in like "corn meal" is NOT related in origin to the word 'meal' as in "a repast". The meal in cornmeal comes from "mill" milling etc...having to do with grinding. The meal as in "three square meals a day" has a different origin in the Germanic words for "time".

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09 Aug 2024, 10:53 am

cyberdad wrote:

So an example of convergent evolution of words?

The word was borrowed from the Dutch word kommando.

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