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The NRA was caught sending a spy into an anti-gun group... should this case be prosecuted as a crime?
Yes, it is definitely criminal. 6%  6%  [ 3 ]
No, there was nothing wrong with what the NRA did. 51%  51%  [ 24 ]
Maybe, it isn't criminal, but it was definitely unethical. 43%  43%  [ 20 ]
Total votes : 47

jrknothead
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03 Aug 2008, 2:49 am

NRA Sends Spy Into Anti-Gun Groups

I know this is illegal if done by one company against another, but is it illegal in this case?

I don't think there's any law forbidding an NRA employee from joining an anti-gun group, so long as no trade secrets are stolen... an anti gun group wouldn't seem to have any trade to speak of or to keep secrets about...



Dox47
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03 Aug 2008, 3:48 am

I'm certainly not surprised, well maybe a little bit that they got caught. The smarter way to do this would have been to farm the job out to one of their affiliated groups, create a layer between them and this women, but they are a lobbyist group, not an intelligence agency.

If I recall, a few years ago Micheal Moore tried to hatch a plot where he would join the NRA and encourage his liberal audience to also join and elect him president so he could disband it, so it's not like they are the first to try something like this. As an on and off member of the NRA, I'm happy to see that they are doing something to fight back against some of these fringe groups, and not doing it with their hands tied either.



jrknothead
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03 Aug 2008, 3:53 am

I have been telling libertarians and democrats for years that the best way to effect change is to join the republican party and vote in the primaries... I sincerely believe that if every activist joined the party would change drastically, but so far no takers...



oscuria
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03 Aug 2008, 5:01 am

Image

I would be wary of letting her in any group. She looks a bit not right. I can picture her doing Lucille Ball-esque antics inside the anti-gun org.


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slowmutant
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03 Aug 2008, 5:10 am

Don't you think eventually the spy would be found out? What if it were some anti-gun spy infiltrating the NRA?



jrknothead
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03 Aug 2008, 6:16 am

I'm a member of the NRA, and I wasn't asked by them how I felt about about guns before they'd let me join... I'm sure a lot of the members have opinions that differ with the NRA in some way... sharing their ideology is not a requirement for membership...

I'm sure that they'll take your $20 membership fee regardless of how you feel about guns, and I've never heard of them refusing membership to anyone...

If an anti-gun spy wanted to join, it wouldn't bother me in the least... in fact, they might learn something...

The NRA is about freedom to exercise one's Second Amendment Rights, or freedom not to if that is one's choice. It's the anti-gun people that insist that the choice be taken away.



slowmutant
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03 Aug 2008, 6:38 am

Is this more about freedom of choice than it is about the guns themselves?



cyberscan
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03 Aug 2008, 9:13 am

jrknothead wrote:
I have been telling libertarians and democrats for years that the best way to effect change is to join the republican party and vote in the primaries... I sincerely believe that if every activist joined the party would change drastically, but so far no takers...


I'm on board with this idea. In fact, I joined the Republican Party to vote for Ron Paul.


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M02
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03 Aug 2008, 9:33 am

What is the NRA anyway?



jrknothead
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03 Aug 2008, 9:36 am

slowmutant wrote:
Is this more about freedom of choice than it is about the guns themselves?


For me it's more about the oath I took when I joined the Army, to protect and defend the constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic...

Every police officer and elected official in this country has taken the same oath... only I don't see very much protecting or defending going on...

The constitution clearly states that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Whenever I hear an elected official or police officer state that we need new laws that infringe on the citizens' rights to keep and bear arms, I consider that a breach of their oath to protect and defend that portion of the constitution...



Tensho
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03 Aug 2008, 9:39 am

I see nothing wrong with that but I wouldnt call it spying. I mean I am a person completely against Autism Speaks but I look at their forums to see what people there think and learn their reasons. But I think any Charity or Political group must always be totally open. They shouldnt have secrets so the only threat from spies is if they have hidden agendas to be discovered.



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03 Aug 2008, 9:54 am

Tensho wrote:
I see nothing wrong with that but I wouldnt call it spying. I mean I am a person completely against Autism Speaks but I look at their forums to see what people there think and learn their reasons. But I think any Charity or Political group must always be totally open. They shouldnt have secrets so the only threat from spies is if they have hidden agendas to be discovered.


I have to agree with that. I don't think that is it immoral to collect information about a group by joining it. I would really really like the government and police to collect information about terrorist by doing that.

I do have a problem with people taking over a group to destroy it. A very informative anti-cult website had their domain bought by some Scientologist so that they could get all their information about cults. Now they run the website and it is mostly useless.



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03 Aug 2008, 2:59 pm

I'm an NRA member and the anti's have created such Trojan Horses as the AHSA (American Hunters and Shooters Assoc.) and now the Union Sportmans Alliance to spread black propaganda and deliberate BS. Various people from NRA, CCRKBA etc have had an interest and kept tabs on the anti's for decades as they have on us. I would have a problem with the leadership of NRA not doing their job by keeping abreast of what the opposition is up to.



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03 Aug 2008, 3:10 pm

I don't have any idea what the NRA would gain by having a spy, in an anti gun group, they hate guns! I am sure Micheal Moore was a member of the NRA for years before he became a film maker, I didn't care for what he put Mr Heston though in his film, that was to low, since Heston had alzheimers, I lost all respect for him after that stunt.



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03 Aug 2008, 3:34 pm

I believe it ^^^ would benefit the NRA to know what proposed legislation is in the pipeline before it hits the sub committee floor so they could prepare a response since a lot of propasal by D'Amato, Schumer et al originate with the Brady campaign and similar organizations.



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03 Aug 2008, 3:36 pm

Charlton Heston might have been less than a saintly human being, his film legacy notwithstanding. He was a hero to many by way of the movies he acted in and the roles he played, but Hestons' film career couldn't speak to what kind of man he really was.