Obama to Seek New Assault Weapons Ban

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Macbeth
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03 Mar 2009, 4:25 am

MrMisanthrope wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
...So in fact TRUE. Incarcerated, enslaved, institutionalized or brigand.. these are the same as of sound mind and body, sensible men who were not criminals, or mentally disturbed, or a danger to themselves or others. It might serve you well to stop automatically opposing what I write and start actually reading it. That or you are implying that if a man is wandering lose, regardless of his mental faculties, he should be allowed access to firearms.


No sir. In fact FALSE. If one is NOT enslaved (an entirely different subject) or NOT incarcerated (i.e. not free to leave the place of incaceration/enslavement), one is, or at least was considered to be a Free Person, capable of and under Natural Right to own, possess and carry weapons.

This INCLUDED brigands, for one does not become a brigand until the act. Once one is a Brigand, even then as long as one is FREE one has the right to defend ones self, property and nation with arms. That the brigand may ans should be killed in the commission of his aggerssive act of violence against another is, again a different matter.

Who is to judge "a man is wandering lose, regardless of his mental faculties"? If he is loose, then he has not been "adjudicated" - which, when the laws were written, meant "subsequently incarcerated".

Do you wish to set some arbitrary standard by which some "authority" dictates that Colored Person A may not own a firearm but White Person B may? (or Jewish/Christian, or Hutu/Tutsi, or whatever)? That's been tried and has shown only to lead to genocide.

Maybe next week all AS persons shall be barred, regardless of proficiency/competency, because some "authority" dicates that AS now equals a "mental defective" (lovely term that... see what the Nazi's did with that term...)

Let me put this simply:

Every (Free, as in un-incarcerated) man, woman, and responsible child has an unalienable individual, civil, Constitutional, and human right to obtain, own, and carry, openly or concealed, any weapon -- rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything -- any time, any place, without asking anyone's permission.

This Right is derived from the fundamental Right to Exist.

If any being has a Right to Exist, it has the Right to individually defenend its individual existence.

To defend one's existence one must have both the will and the means.

To have the Means one must have both the training and the tools.

Animals are born with ot the training and tools... Instinct, Tooth and Claw.

Humans are born with neither, and must LEARN and MANUFACTURE the means of self defense.

The most effective tool of Self Defense - the defene of simpe existence - currently developed is the Firearm.

To reject, ban or otherwise disuade by authority the use of the most effective tools for self defense by the general population is to suggest that the lives of The People are not worth preserving... that the lives of The People, as individuals, are Worth Less than the lives of the Government Officials who would remove their means of self preservation.

Any Person or Government that suggests that the life of ANY Free Person is WOrth Less than the life of any other Free Person is suggesting that the Government has the authority to take that life at will.

I don't know about yours, but, my life is not WorthLess than the life of some Authoritarian Thug sent to oppress/kill me.


And you honestly believe that Jefferson et al were all for unlimited firearms ownership regardless of calibre (gun or person.) Fine. So what do you say of those people who do purchase military grade weaponry, and then uses it in an irresponsible or criminal manner, or who would overthrow your government in favour of say.. another Reich, or a communist state?

Addendum: Even owning guns etc did not help the south, who had the right to secede. That right was violated by government, by force. A whole nation of free individuals (by your definition indeed.) Do you genuinely think that access as a private individual to high grade firepower will actually prevent wholesale government oppression, because at the moment all this talk of rights sounds like a sop to keep the public happy from a government that is quite capable of putting down even open rebellion (as it has done before.)? What OTHER methods are there in your political arsenal that might be more effective? Do you trust the vote more than the gun, or vice versa? At what point do you feel you could openly rebel? What does your government have to do to cause that? It would seem that your civil liberties have already been curtailed by your government in the past 8 years or so. How much more?


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03 Mar 2009, 2:15 pm

Macbeth wrote:
...And you honestly believe that Jefferson et al were all for unlimited firearms ownership regardless of calibre (gun or person.) Fine. So what do you say of those people who do purchase military grade weaponry, and then uses it in an irresponsible or criminal manner,

People who misuse the tool deserve the punishment coming to them. It is the fault of the tool user, not the tool.
Quote:
or who would overthrow your government in favour of say.. another Reich, or a communist state?

Bring it on. Not all Revolutions are successful and not all Revolutions have a philosophical foundation emicable to popular support. Unlike IngSoc, the Population of the US has not (yet) become totally besotted with the idea of an overarching Nanny State with absolute power, nor would they support any such uprising.
Quote:
Addendum: Even owning guns etc did not help the south, who had the right to secede. That right was violated by government, by force. A whole nation of free individuals (by your definition indeed.) Do you genuinely think that access as a private individual to high grade firepower will actually prevent wholesale government oppression, because at the moment all this talk of rights sounds like a sop to keep the public happy from a government that is quite capable of putting down even open rebellion (as it has done before.)? What OTHER methods are there in your political arsenal that might be more effective? Do you trust the vote more than the gun, or vice versa? At what point do you feel you could openly rebel? What does your government have to do to cause that?


I will have to address this a bit differently: It does not matter whether armed defense against an oppressor is immediately "successful". What matters is the attempt. Would you say that the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising was a success, or failure? It would not have been possible at all were it not for access to "illegal" arms. Yet the attempt was made. Why? Because A Free Person can never be enslaved, only killed.

As long as arms are available to Free Persons, they can at least make the attempt to defend themselves. That is the fundamental Right of Existence that Gun Bans attempt to deny.

As for "At what point do you feel you could openly rebel? What does your government have to do to cause that?", in the main, for what little consensus there is, it would boil down to the use of US Military &/or Non US Military troops within the borders of the country to abrogate the Constitution, whether it be the nationalization of the Press or the forcible confiscation of small arms, or any other similar violation.


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03 Mar 2009, 3:06 pm

Here is another example of one of those "lost causes" where having arms did not immediately make a difference, yet made ALL the difference in the end:

On March 2, 1836, a small group of Anglo settlers and native Mexicans gathered in a tiny village on the Brazos River to declare their independence from Mexico and its bloodthirsty dictator, Generalissimo Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna.

For the Texians, as we were known then, and Tejanos, this was no mere act of civil disobedience. Their civil rights and civil liberties were being violated and their government was forcibly seizing their goods and wealth, as well as their guns.

A charismatic leader, Santa Anna rapidly rose to take Mexico’s highest office. He promised to protect the poor from the wealthy and powerful, but instead centralized the government and delivered a tyranny even more terrible.

The Mexican army was the largest and best-trained in the Western Hemisphere. Their orders were clear – slash and burn their way through Coahuila y Tejas, take back the town of San Antonio de Bexar, move north, crush the rebellion and execute its leaders.

The only thing between these simple farmers, lawyers and doctors and the hot lead and slashing bayonets of the “Napoleon of the West” was a crumbling stone church along the main road through Texas.

Around 180 volunteers were huddled inside the Alamo, holding off as many as 5,000 Mexican soldiers as long as possible to buy their fellow patriots some time to declare independence and raise a resistance.

They refused Santa Anna’s offer of mercy to any man who left the fort, which came with a promise to slaughter everyone else, despite not knowing that same offer to rebels at Goliad ended with Santa Anna executing those who accepted his "generosity."

Flying a flag of no quarter, Santa Anna lived up to his word to kill all inside when a pre-dawn assault on March 6 finally breached the walls after 13 days of resistance. Every Texian and Tejano defender was killed, but recapture of the Alamo came at a demoralizing price. Fewer than 200 rebels killed around 600 of the Western Hemisphere’s best soldiers and wounded others.

The stubborn resistance bought the freedom fighters time. The Texas Declaration of Independence was signed at Washington-on-the-Brazos on March 2. Santa Anna’s crimes against liberty were announced to the world before he could capture the rebellion’s leaders and tighten his dictatorial grip over the rebellious colony.

A small band of colonists, armed only with simple hunting rifles and hastily assembled into a makeshift militia, now fled ahead of the massive military juggernaut rampaging north through Texas, burning towns to the ground in its wake. Many Texians were angry, wondering why the leader of their forces, former Tennessee governor Sam Houston, was retreating from Santa Anna rather than fighting.

But they weren’t exactly retreating. General Houston knew an army of thousands, which had marched over 3,000 miles from central Mexico at breakneck speed was exhausted and had overstretched its supply lines. And they knew the valiant sacrifice at the Alamo deeply wounded the Mexican Army. As they lured Santa Anna further north, they waited for their moment to strike. It was a bold gamble with seemingly slim odds of success, as Santa Anna was better armed, better trained, had an exponentially larger force and would stop at nothing to exterminate the rebellion.

Well, the beautiful thing about liberty is that it eventually gives you an opportunity to win it back.

For the Texians and Tejanos, that moment came on the afternoon of April 21. Santa Anna, a brilliant military strategist, had not only split his weary army, he camped his contingent on a wedge of land hemmed in by thick swamps and the San Jacinto River. The arrogant Santa Anna had overreached. The freedom fighters seized the opportunity, charging down the hill into the much larger Mexican camp.

The attack came as a total surprise. As the rebel militia hurtled towards the camp, some Mexican soldiers returned fire and others feebly attempted to retreat into the only directions not blocked by Texians and Tejanos – the nearly impenetrable swamps and the San Jacinto River.

The short battle was a mind-boggling defeat. The outnumbered militia of farmers, doctors and lawyers killed over half the Mexican force of 1,200, wounded more than 200 and captured over 700 more in less than 20 minutes. They lost only nine of their own.

Among those captured was the bold, cocky, arrogant Generalissimo, the “Napoleon of the West,” the once-inspirational hope who changed Mexico from a constitutional republic into a centralized superstate. Only the rebels didn’t know it. Santa Anna ordered a lowly soldier to hand over his uniform, hoping the rebels wouldn’t know who they captured.

His cowardly disguise would have worked, had his soldiers not seem him being led back to the camp and started chanting his name. Disgraced and humbled, he agreed to a simple trade. Give them Texas, and they would give him his life. Unlike Santa Anna, the Texians and Tejanos actually kept their promise of mercy.

And therein lies the lesson of Texas Independence Day. Liberty can be violated, infringed and outlawed, but the transformational leaders behind it eventually overreach. Their arrogance, pride and hope to change a nation in their image lead them too far. That’s when liberty presents the opportunity for once-inconceivable victory those bold enough to declare their independence and win it back...

Sometimes even with only "small arms".


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06 Mar 2009, 1:48 pm

The drafters of the Constitution did indeed intend for private citizenry to have access to artillery and other heavy weapons; as of course the citizens of a representative and free nation must necessarily be able to exercise some military autonomy in defense of their communities (either from external aggressors or internal, as the case may be with a tyrannical government).

The founders, at least those of whom looked upon the federal beast with a jaundiced and suspicious eye, never intended to create a central power-elite in the halls of the federal government vested with a total monopoly on military force. As that psychotic little Red-Commie dwarf Mao said, "Political power grows from the barrel of a gun".

But back to the issue I alluded to earlier, I would point out that General Jackson's near-run but brilliant defense of New Orleans was chiefly made possible due to the numerous pieces of dug-in artillery at his disposal, and the finely trained artillery-men at his command.

And may I ask, sir, do you know from whence many of those cannons and well-trained crews came from? Why, from Jean Lafitte of course, a private... ahem... entrepreneur of a sea-borne nature that contributed large numbers of men to the defense of the embattled city, provided guns and crews for several artillery companies, and offered highly trained and very well regarded artillery-men for the American war effort on land and at sea.

If it were not for his privately owned ships of war, trained crews, and extensive collection of military hardware, then the near-run defense of New Orleans would have easily turned in to an unfortunate rout of the American forces.

As an aside, our Constitution even has provisions for hiring private ships of war to supplement our naval forces in times of war.

If you study the civil war, you will quickly find that at the beginning most of the standing militias and state defense forces in the South were equipped by the donations made by local businessmen. Private charity and public service by upstanding citizens provided a significant portion of the military hardware used by the South in the opening days of the war. And yes sir, those private men were perfectly able to go out and buy their own damned canons, if they were able to scrape together through donation and charity the enormous amount of money required.

It was not until the late 1930's that the federal government even entertained the idea of restricting private access to weapons. If you actually read the findings in U.S. v. Miller, and note that neither the defendant nor his attorney showed up for the trial, you will quickly realize precisely what the justices meant when they said: "We have been shown no evidence that would lead us to conclude that a short-barreled shotgun is a military weapon, and hence cannot conclude that it is protected by the second amendment." The justices believed, rightly, that the private citizens of our nation had a right to possess military weapons.


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06 Mar 2009, 2:33 pm

Modern Era:

What the Panther Taught the Eagle - A Modern Folk Tale

Quote:
"These men are here to freely exercise their divine and, yes, constitutional rights...to defend ourselves and carry armed and loaded weapons..."


No, the speaker is not Charlton Heston, or anyone else associated with the NRA or other "gun rights" groups. These words were spoken by Malik Z. Shabazz, an attorney for the New Black Panther Party, commenting on about 50 armed black activists counterdemonstrating against the Ku Klux Klan in Jasper, Texas.

The Panther's affinity for Marxist dogma notwithstanding, their stand demonstrates the true meaning and power behind the Second Amendment's guarantee that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. But the incident also speaks loudly for how rights are selectively recognized by the authorities.

Imagine the reaction had the police moved in and attempted to disarm the demonstrators. The reality is, they dared not. For had they met with resistance, they would have been forced to call in overwhelming power, which would surely have resulted in Panther deaths. Ever opportunistic politicians and a feeding-frenzied media would then do their utmost to inflame the situation to their best advantage. Can anyone doubt that this would further result in nationwide riots and the very real possibility of urban warfare?

Fifty men with guns exercised their rights, and the state was afraid to do anything about it.

Now imagine the reaction had the Klan marched armed. Public sympathies would have demanded their arrest. Had a bloodbath resulted, the political, media and popular sentiment would be "serves 'em right." The resulting public reaction would be celebratory.

The truth is, the Panthers applied the right to bear arms in exactly the way it was intended to be-- in defense of their lives and their rights. Their presence deterred violence against them. They did not engage in unwarranted violence. Their stand should be applauded as an example by all who believe this is a right of free people.

But until the authorities extend the same reaction to all of us, regardless of race, political affiliation or popularity, Constitutional freedoms will not be restored. As the Panthers have demonstrated, the only way for this to happen is for the authorities to fear the consequences, not from random groups of "gun nuts" and "extremists," but from our neighbors and countrymen.

------------

Bottom line: We all must all be able to keep and bear arms, regardless of race, color, creed, affiliations...the sole criteria is that we conduct ourselves peaceably, non-aggressively, and do not initiate force and victimize others.

Hate what the Panthers stand for? Hate what the Klan stands for?

That doesn't matter. It's like free speech. You have a right to advocate communism, atheism, racism, just as much as I have a right to endorse their polar opposites. It's the old line "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

Do you really want to try that without the means of defense?

What neither of us have a right to do is force our beliefs and will on others, that is, to enslave them. Guns in peaceable but resolute hands provide a last resort individual check against that should the communal social balances fail.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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06 Mar 2009, 4:10 pm

Right now the media is saying it's because of the War On Drugs in Mexico...our assault weapons are ending up in the hands of drug gangs in olde Mexico so the government wants to ban certain assault rifles again.



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06 Mar 2009, 4:21 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Right now the media is saying it's because of the War On Drugs in Mexico...our assault weapons are ending up in the hands of drug gangs in olde Mexico so the government wants to ban certain assault rifles again.

Except that that is utterly bogus.

The Narcos are using Full Auto Military weapons... not the semi-auto cosmetic "assault rifles" available in the US.

The only Full Autos in the US are either (A) known about and tightly controlled by the BATFE or (B) completely illegal and "banned" anyway.

Why in the heck would Mexican Narcos want US semi-autos when there are Full Autos available in Mexico?


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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06 Mar 2009, 4:27 pm

MrMisanthrope wrote:
The Narcos are using Full Auto Military weapons... not the semi-auto cosmetic "assault rifles" available in the US.

The only Full Autos in the US are either (A) known about and tightly controlled by the BATFE or (B) completely illegal and "banned" anyway.

Why in the heck would Mexican Narcos want US semi-autos when there are Full Autos available in Mexico?


You should copy that, go over to CNN dot com, and paste it in either a comment or an email.



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06 Mar 2009, 4:31 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
MrMisanthrope wrote:
The Narcos are using Full Auto Military weapons... not the semi-auto cosmetic "assault rifles" available in the US.

The only Full Autos in the US are either (A) known about and tightly controlled by the BATFE or (B) completely illegal and "banned" anyway.

Why in the heck would Mexican Narcos want US semi-autos when there are Full Autos available in Mexico?


You should copy that, go over to CNN dot com, and paste it in either a comment or an email.

I suppose I could try again... But IMEX they don't particularly care to hear reasoned opinions, normally preferring blithering pro-gun screamers that make all gun owners look crazy or people that support the anti-gunowner position.

AFAIC THEY need to prove THEIR assertion. When an "investigative reporter" actually buys an Full Auto "assault weapon" - as are being used by the narcos in Mex - from ANY US gunshow, THEN and ONLY THEN will they have the beginnings of a talking point.

Until then, they are simply lying.


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Abu_Zarqawi
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09 Mar 2009, 8:20 am

most rational compassionate people burn the 2nd amendment and piss on its ashes just to put a stop the alarming firearm-related death rate in the US but i guess innocent people dying aren't as important as a f*****g piece of paper. USA number 1, indeed.



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09 Mar 2009, 9:42 am

Abu_Zarqawi wrote:
most rational compassionate people burn the 2nd amendment and piss on its ashes just to put a stop the alarming firearm-related death rate in the US but i guess innocent people dying aren't as important as a f***ing piece of paper. USA number 1, indeed.

You are right... the 2nd amendment grants us nothing. Id only expresses a preexisting condition - the Right to individual self preservation in the face of hostility.

Given that any schmuck with a drill, hacksaw and some pipe can build a submachinegun in a cave, any sort of "gun ban" that affects only those who are not predisposed to be aggressively violent/criminal will havve zero effect on criminals killing innocent people.

What allows the criminally violent to exist is their lack of fear of consequences. When they have passive victims, they win...

Which is why, in the US anyway, gun controll has been advanced and championed by criminals ever since the Sullivan Act in NYC to a current bill written and pushed by Felon/"ex" Black Panther/Domestic Terrorist Bobby Rush.


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09 Mar 2009, 10:47 am

hahahha if i walk down a regular street in the US i have a a greater chance of being shot than in any other western country. for you that probably just symbolizes freedom or something but i personally dont want to get shot. and the absolute easiest way to keep the populace from being shot is by not having any guns from the beginning.

but it doesnt really matter now, the inferiority complex inherent in the american male has created a situation in which there are so many guns in circulation thats regulating it is pretty much impossible. obama can ban all the guns he wants, but for every gun that isn't sold in gun-store, ten will be sold on the black market

seriously you're all pretty f****d. what laws you have wont matter, you'll be seeing kids accidentally shooting themselves or others, columbines and v-techs, gang shootouts and random killings for a long time to come. and with a financial crisis in full spin, it'll probably escalate

and all because of a piece of paper and the phallic insecurity of american men. lol.



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09 Mar 2009, 11:58 am

Abu_Zarqawi wrote:
hahahha if i walk down a regular street in the US i have a a greater chance of being shot than in any other western country.

By a criminal who is already "prohibited" from owning firearms anyway.
Quote:
for you that probably just symbolizes freedom or something but i personally dont want to get shot.

For me it "symbolizes" nothing. Firearms are tools.
Quote:
and the absolute easiest way to keep the populace from being shot is by not having any guns from the beginning.

A fundamental impossibility. They are simply too easy to make. Take a trip to the Kyhber Pass sometime.
Quote:
but it doesnt really matter now, the inferiority complex inherent in the american male has created a situation in which there are so many guns in circulation thats regulating it is pretty much impossible.

Again, you completely fail to understand that outside of the urban cesspools, a Firearm is simply a tool, and people in the US have been using those tools for legitimate purposes since the first settlement on this continent.
Quote:
obama can ban all the guns he wants, but for every gun that isn't sold in gun-store, ten will be sold on the black market

The first sensible thing you have said thus far. This, by the way, is exactly the situation as it obtains everywhere firearms are banned.
Quote:
seriously you're all pretty f****. what laws you have wont matter, you'll be seeing kids accidentally shooting themselves or others, columbines and v-techs, gang shootouts and random killings for a long time to come. and with a financial crisis in full spin, it'll probably escalate

All the more reason to be able to defend myself from the criminals who would try to take violent advantage of it.
Quote:
and all because of a piece of paper and the phallic insecurity of american men. lol.

Nope. All because I have the fundamental Right to defend/preserve my life with the best tools available.

But, don't take my word for it:

Mohandas K. Gandhi wrote:
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest. If we want the Arms Act to be repealed, if we want to learn the use of arms, here is a golden opportunity. If the middle classes render voluntary help to Government in the hour of its trial, distrust will disappear, and the ban on possessing arms will be withdrawn." Mohandas K. Gandhi, Autobiography: The Story of My Experiments with Truth, Chapter XXVII, Recruiting Campaign, Page 403, Dover paperback edition, 1983


The Dalai Lama wrote:
"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." (May 15, 2001, The Seattle Times)


'St.' Augustine wrote:
Though defensive violence will always be 'a sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." A.D. 354-430


Thomas Aquinas wrote:
"Without doubt one is allowed to resist against the unjust aggressor to one’s life, one’s goods or one’s physical integrity; sometimes, even 'til the aggressor’s death... In fact, this act is aimed at preserving one’s life or one’s goods and to make the aggressor powerless. Thus, it is a good act, which is the right of the victim." [There are three conditions under which legitimate self-defense must lie:] "That he who is the target of the force is an aggressor and an unjust aggressor... That the object of the defence is an important good, such as the life, physical integrity or worthy goods... [and] That defensive violence is proportionate to aggression." [Under these conditions,] "One is also allowed [not required] to kill other people’s unjust aggressor." Dizionario ecclesiastico ("Ecclesiastic dictionary", UTET, 1959)


Of course, as someone whose avatar is of a mad dog killer who uses weapons illegally anyway... well, no wonder you might feel concerned that the victims of terrorism might have access to defensive weapons. :roll:


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09 Mar 2009, 2:25 pm

"(5) who, being an alien— "

That made me lol ^^; , as if aliens did not have any means to defend themselves...<.< Only in a US document would i have seen this XD .

I'm mostly anti-gun =.= i'd rather fight with my fists than take the easy way and shoot someone with a deadly ranged projectile -.-

Oh and for all those who value the right to possess firearms.... Inspired by Nozick much? <.< (according to Robert Nozick, the state should not force you to do anything you do not want to, and that includes : the right to sell your body, the right to not wear a helmet when you're riding a bike, the right to not save a person who's life is in danger)



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09 Mar 2009, 2:58 pm

phil777 wrote:
"(5) who, being an alien— "That made me lol ^^; , as if aliens did not have any means to defend themselves...<.< Only in a US document would i have seen this XD .

(5) who, being an alien—
.....(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
.....(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(26)));

But yeah, it is a pretty stupid statement, because those predisposed to do things illegally aren't going to care if what they are doing is illegal...QED.

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'm mostly anti-gun =.= i'd rather fight with my fists than take the easy way and shoot someone with a deadly ranged projectile -.-

There have been three instances where I have been faced with life-threatening violence by others. In no case would physical fighting have been prudent, but in all cases the attack was halted by the simple expedient of displaying a firearm and saying "Stop". I did not have to shoot anyone. As for it being "easy"... well, obviously you have no experience with firearms or you would not claim that. Shooting a gun might be "easy" in a technical sense ... but shooting a gun accurately, under stress, is quite difficult. Next time you're at the Pub, sprint around the block a few times then pop immediately into the pub and try to play a game of darts...while someone is screaming at you ant threatening to hurt you. That might come close.

FWIW, I am more than adequately trained in hand-to hand self defense - as a result of being even BETTER trained in hand to hand offense. However, it is not often in ones best interests to try to fight a group of people intent on doing you harm. This is one of those areas where a firearm excels. Likewise, the aged or infirm do not have the physical capacity of the young & strong. A firearm makes up for their inability to carry a policeman everywheree they go.

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Oh and for all those who value the right to possess firearms.... Inspired by Nozick much? <.< (according to Robert Nozick, the state should not force you to do anything you do not want to, and that includes : the right to sell your body, the right to not wear a helmet when you're riding a bike, the right to not save a person who's life is in danger)

Sounds reasonable to me. I will have to look him up.


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I'm not Jesus. Stop punishing me for other people's sins.

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phil777
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09 Mar 2009, 3:31 pm

Hrm, well obviously a gun gives you an advantage -.- This is actually the biggest thing with humans, since we have technologies, we don't need to develop physical traits that could determine who's strongest (like most other animals do). What i am against though, is how excessive the harm a gun can bring towards somehow who would fight unarmed. (Heh, don't you often see in movies that the guy shooting the hero in the back is a coward?).

I'd also note that huh... The farther you are from someone, the less empathy you feel, the harder it is for you to strike her/him down. I doubt the people that dropped the nuclear bomb or launch missiles get to see the face of those they've killed, which makes it easier for them to strike without any back feeling. Try stabbing or hitting someone at close range, it's not as easy as one might think.