Reason to not kill myself?

Page 7 of 8 [ 115 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

dorkseid
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2020
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,354
Location: Tarkon Galtos

18 Sep 2021, 5:26 pm

badRobot wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
I have never experienced love or intimacy with a woman. The only relationship I've ever was in was with an narcissist who abused me psychologically. The relationship was extremely unsatisfying, but I was afraid if I left no other woman would ever want me again. I never felt any attraction to my ex and was only in the relationship out of desperation. That relationship ended more than a decade ago, and no other woman has wanted to date or have sex with me since then. There were no "up periods" punctuated by "down periods". I had simply always been undesirable, unwanted, and unlovable. This is not my subjective perception, but an objective fact.

Love doesn't make you happy. You can love and be loved only when you are happy. "Up period" is not something that happens to you, this is something you create yourself.


So its a Catch 22.



dorkseid
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2020
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,354
Location: Tarkon Galtos

18 Sep 2021, 5:31 pm

Jakki wrote:
If your only experience with relationships have been abusive ones. Then what would you have to guage other better relationships by...... Sometimes it seems to take alotta of life experience . In order to guage what is good for ones self . :nerdy:


( be your own best friend)
(( other people may notice)).


I've already burned through 50% of my life expectancy at best. If I need a plethora of experience gained through enduring countless failed relationships, and have only had one such relationship and need to go through many others, then what does that leave me with to look forward to?



badRobot
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 824

18 Sep 2021, 5:41 pm

dorkseid wrote:
badRobot wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
I have never experienced love or intimacy with a woman. The only relationship I've ever was in was with an narcissist who abused me psychologically. The relationship was extremely unsatisfying, but I was afraid if I left no other woman would ever want me again. I never felt any attraction to my ex and was only in the relationship out of desperation. That relationship ended more than a decade ago, and no other woman has wanted to date or have sex with me since then. There were no "up periods" punctuated by "down periods". I had simply always been undesirable, unwanted, and unlovable. This is not my subjective perception, but an objective fact.

Love doesn't make you happy. You can love and be loved only when you are happy. "Up period" is not something that happens to you, this is something you create yourself.


So its a Catch 22.

No, it is not, you can become a happy person. Not in false socio-cultural sense, but in true "capable of experiencing joy" meaning of happiness, the opposite of "depressed".



dorkseid
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2020
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,354
Location: Tarkon Galtos

18 Sep 2021, 10:07 pm

I just got done reading an old Marvel comic: Defenders #50. The villain, Scorpio, keeps ranting about how he could never succeed in life. How everything has always blown up in his face. How women have always rejected him. Because he is 52, he feels that his scheme is last chance at achieving any significance. He created his own genetically engineered henchmen, the Zodiac, including a woman named Virgo whom he meant to be his partner. He saw Virgo as his last chance for happiness. But alas, she did not survive. The story ends with Scorpio taking his own life. He may have been a mad man, but I can't help but relate to the feeling that has passed a certain point because of age where there are no opportunities left to have the life he wanted.



idntonkw
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

Joined: 29 Apr 2020
Age: 37
Posts: 477
Location: Boston

19 Sep 2021, 2:14 am

Don't hate yourself for being different. Some people are bad at math, other people are bad at dating and social stuff. Many of us are in the same unfortunate position as you are. I understand the struggle.



dorkseid
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2020
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,354
Location: Tarkon Galtos

19 Sep 2021, 5:35 am

People who are bad at math are not forever alone and unwanted.



badRobot
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 824

19 Sep 2021, 6:18 am

dorkseid wrote:
I just got done reading an old Marvel comic: Defenders #50. The villain, Scorpio, keeps ranting about how he could never succeed in life. How everything has always blown up in his face. How women have always rejected him. Because he is 52, he feels that his scheme is last chance at achieving any significance. He created his own genetically engineered henchmen, the Zodiac, including a woman named Virgo whom he meant to be his partner. He saw Virgo as his last chance for happiness. But alas, she did not survive. The story ends with Scorpio taking his own life. He may have been a mad man, but I can't help but relate to the feeling that has passed a certain point because of age where there are no opportunities left to have the life he wanted.

This is storytelling 101. To write a good villain, make him relatable, represent common misconceptions, mistakes and fallacies. Like misbelief that one needs to achieve some recognized significance to be happy. Or putting all your hope for happiness into a woman.



kuze
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 4 Sep 2021
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 92
Location: UK

19 Sep 2021, 7:37 am

Dorkseid, if I had half my life without a decent partner I would want to find why, and I wouldn't stop util I had some credible answers. Forums are a decent sticky plaster when things go dark, but actual help with this is going to take speaking to a human with experience and knowledge in this area. Whatever your experiences in the past, if you dont like the psychologist, therapist, or psychiatrist you end with just try again. However, if you find you are not satisfied with whoever they put in front of you, then you may want to ask yourself why and do something about it.

What I am saying is that the only person that can make the difference to your life is you. If you choose to take action and persist with that action then you are already on the road to recovery. However, if you are content with perpetual sticking plasters, you will go round in circles and nothing long term will change for the better.

Best of luck with your future 8)

kuze


_________________
'I am that which you seek to destroy'


badRobot
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 824

19 Sep 2021, 7:44 am

dorkseid wrote:
People who are bad at math are not forever alone and unwanted.

Some of them are and a fair share of those people falsely believe this is the reason why they are unhappy.



Fenn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Sep 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,404
Location: Pennsylvania

19 Sep 2021, 12:02 pm

badRobot wrote:
I don't get why educated people still take these pseudoscientific theories seriously.


Because people are complicated - and trying to understand them requires some kind of model.

This particular book was written my a clinical psychologist who worked with Borderline Personalty Disorder people who were experiencing real pain, and he found this theory helped him to make sense of these clients and help them, when other forms of therapy do not. It also helps me to understand the feeling I have, based on my experience of "double mindedness". Sometimes it seems like a part of me which has been standing in the wings steps into the spotlight and I say and do things I would never do when some other part of me is on center stage. It also correlates with a metastudy I read that shows that for people who are diagnosed BPD via DSM criteria they are unusually resistant to therapy - and the therapies that work best are DBT (Dielectic Behavior Therapy) and Psychodynamic (which does this "inner child" and "go back and look at your whole life, especially your formative years, and the people who raised you when you were small and vulnerable and when you were still forming"). I have done a lot of CBT (Cognitive therapy) and ACT (acceptance and commitment therapy) and I still have big issues I need to work on. Basically, like Dorkseid, I have experienced a lot of emotional pain, and trying to avoid more of the same sometimes gets in the way of making progress - growing. ADHD and ASD are real neurological conditions, and they complicate other stuff like thinking and emotions - all of which are a part of me. I need some way to make sense of me - and I am determined to try things - including things I have not tried.


_________________
ADHD-I(diagnosed) ASD-HF(diagnosed)
RDOS scores - Aspie score 131/200 - neurotypical score 69/200 - very likely Aspie


badRobot
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 824

19 Sep 2021, 12:36 pm

Fenn wrote:
badRobot wrote:
I don't get why educated people still take these pseudoscientific theories seriously.


Because people are complicated - and trying to understand them requires some kind of model.

Model supposed to reflect objective reality with some level of accuracy and approximation. These models are completely made up and do not reflect any aspect of objective reality of how human brain/mind works or contribute to better understanding at all. One might as well take astrology seriously. This is tabloid backpage material, not something we should bring up in context of mental health.



Fenn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Sep 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,404
Location: Pennsylvania

19 Sep 2021, 12:50 pm

dorkseid wrote:
But my life has objectively never experienced any kind of "up turn".

I have never experienced love or intimacy with a woman. The only relationship I've ever was in was with an narcissist who abused me psychologically. The relationship was extremely unsatisfying, but I was afraid if I left no other woman would ever want me again. I never felt any attraction to my ex and was only in the relationship out of desperation. That relationship ended more than a decade ago, and no other woman has wanted to date or have sex with me since then. There were no "up periods" punctuated by "down periods". I had simply always been undesirable, unwanted, and unlovable. This is not my subjective perception, but an objective fact.


Dorkseid,
Again - I am not in any way saying the real emotional pain you have experienced is not real. Being unlucky in love is hard - the kind of relationship you are talking about has to do with intimacy and intimacy always has the essential risk of vulnerability - it is when we are vulnerable that we can be hurt. It sounds like you were vulnerable, you were hurt, and you don't want to be vulnerable again because you don't want to be hurt again. But by not being vulnerable you don't see intimacy as an option either. So you feel stuck. I can relate to all of those things from my personal experience. I have been vulnerable, I have been hurt, I don't want to be hurt again - but the "walls" I put up to protect me add to my loneliness - which is itself hurtful. So i feel stuck - I want more intimacy but I don't want to be hurt. I have a big write up from a very smart psychologists a few years ago. He correctly pointed out that I have highs and lows, perhaps not because I am bipolar (like my uncle, who is diagnosed bipolar) but because of emotional highs and lows. There is an old song "fools rush in where angles fear to tread" - I rush into relationships and over expose myself - I don't really understand people and my people skills are poor and all learned from books - nothing really natural about my approach to people - then I start to feel hurt and I fear that hurt is all there is and I pull back and put up walls again.
I hear you saying that you see more downs then ups, and even that you cannot see any ups - but the downs feel very clear and objective - plain for anyone to see - and no-one could see them otherwise.
Here are some things to consider:
You could decide to be happy without a girlfriend or wife. You could accept that guy-gal relationships are hard for you and let them be and look for other areas of happiness. I have experienced the fact that I can have a "Magic magnifying mind" and when I focus on the bad stuff if becomes bigger - when I focus on the good stuff it becomes bigger.
You could decide that the trouble you have had dating is not so much a part of you but something you could change. This was the route I decided to go at one point in my life - the books I mentioned. The solution was not perfect, but I was able to make progress. I knew how to read. I could go to the library and book store and search on Amazon and find books with names like "1001 ways to be romantic" and "a cowboy's guide to romance". I still have some of these books. The goal was not a Miracle Cure but simply self improvement. I was able to make progress, I found the progress encouraging and I continued to make more progress.
You could seek professional help - it may be the pain you feel is a kind of hypersensitivity - part of the autism condition is often hypersensitivities - there may be medication which could help reduce the hypersensitivity and make it more possible to feel the good stuff more readily - which in turn would make it more possible to increase the good stuff. I, for example take a SSRI which reduces my anxiety, and that helps with my emotional pain. I think I may simply have been born with a neurological, objective, hypersensitivity - so it is ok for me to decide to take doctor's advice and try the medication. I still have feelings and thoughts and, again I am not looking for a Miracle Cure but simply self improvement. I had to come to the point in my life where I had decided that fighting anxiety was taking too much energy too much of the time. The medication doesn't "fix everything" but it does help. I also take a medication for ADHD, a SNRI - and that helps too.
I am looking for a new shrink right now. I just fired my old one. I didn't feel we were moving in the right direction. I may have been wrong but I am not done yet. I have worked with a number of psychologists over the years, some have helped some have not - but the important thing is that I am willing to try, and keep trying.
You could reach out to peer support - in a way that is what you are doing here - there are many support groups, some free. I have participated in a number of them.

I am also going to challenge your statement that there is no good in your life. Again I want to restate I am not questioning or trying to minimize your pain. You may be dealing with clinical depression or any number of things I am not dealing with, or unaware of. But even accepting the painful part of your life - you can read and write english, so you are not "non-communicative" like some people on the spectrum. You have a room mate so you are able to live independently of your parents - some people on the spectrum are not. You are well to do enough to own a cell phone or computer so you can post here on WP - or you are cleaver enough to get access to such tech even if it is not tech you can own. There are people in the world who don't have this type of thing. I have read some of your posts on WP and I know you are intelligent, and not easily bullied or swayed by other people's opinions. You are aggressive in defending yourself and your point of view and opinion.
And I hardly know you - I bet if you really decided to refute your "dorkseid should die" voices you could come up with a lot better list of assets than that.
If you were willing to risk just a little bit more vulnerability you might also be open to a little bit more intimacy, and do so in a safe way you were OK with.


_________________
ADHD-I(diagnosed) ASD-HF(diagnosed)
RDOS scores - Aspie score 131/200 - neurotypical score 69/200 - very likely Aspie


badRobot
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 824

19 Sep 2021, 1:43 pm

Fenn wrote:
You could decide to be happy without a girlfriend or wife. You could accept that guy-gal relationships are hard for you and let them be and look for other areas of happiness. I have experienced the fact that I can have a "Magic magnifying mind" and when I focus on the bad stuff if becomes bigger - when I focus on the good stuff it becomes bigger.
You could decide that the trouble you have had dating is not so much a part of you but something you could change. This was the route I decided to go at one point in my life - the books I mentioned. The solution was not perfect, but I was able to make progress. I knew how to read. I could go to the library and book store and search on Amazon and find books with names like "1001 ways to be romantic" and "a cowboy's guide to romance". I still have some of these books. The goal was not a Miracle Cure but simply self improvement. I was able to make progress, I found the progress encouraging and I continued to make more progress.

Trying to deliberately internalize the idea that he doesn't need a girlfriend to be happy or whatever, will never work and will not make him any happier. Because this idea isn't the the cause, but result if being unhappy. Whatever you believe is almost completely irrelevant if, for example, there is build up of Quinolinic acid in your brain due to lack of regular exercise. It is just impossible to have any kind of "up turn", have positive outlook and subjectively feel happy until you address all these deficits.



G.2.0
Butterfly
Butterfly

Joined: 30 Jan 2021
Gender: Female
Posts: 13

19 Sep 2021, 2:16 pm

If I met you in real life I'd be your friend, I wouldn't reject you :(


_________________
ADHD and ASD diagnoses.

Love a good pun.


Fenn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Sep 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,404
Location: Pennsylvania

19 Sep 2021, 2:42 pm

badRobot wrote:
Trying to deliberately internalize the idea that he doesn't need a girlfriend to be happy or whatever, will never work and will not make him any happier. Because this idea isn't the the cause, but result if being unhappy. Whatever you believe is almost completely irrelevant if, for example, there is build up of Quinolinic acid in your brain due to lack of regular exercise. It is just impossible to have any kind of "up turn", have positive outlook and subjectively feel happy until you address all these deficits.


badRobot,

Perhaps it is better if you and I simply agree to disagree.

You seem to feel quiet strongly about your position.

You might find this study instructive

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3513859/


_________________
ADHD-I(diagnosed) ASD-HF(diagnosed)
RDOS scores - Aspie score 131/200 - neurotypical score 69/200 - very likely Aspie


badRobot
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 824

19 Sep 2021, 3:59 pm

Fenn wrote:

badRobot,

Perhaps it is better if you and I simply agree to disagree.

You seem to feel quiet strongly about your position.

You might find this study instructive

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3513859/

What exactly do you disagree with? If I would say that your car will not start if gas tank is empty or battery is missing or fuel pump disconnected would you disagree? If any of those are true, I don't think any sane person would insist on theory that car doesn't start because there are horse and sloth spirits living in the engine and engine doesn't start when sloth spirit emerges to the surface.

I'm sorry if I sound too harsh, but I just can't wrap my mind how insane these theories sound when you look at them critically.

And I'm not doing it for the sake of argument, I'm trying to help OP and others who are looking for solution.