Framework for Care of Upset Person

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magz
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26 Oct 2021, 2:16 am

Good morning.

Indeed, I expect you to agree to disagree when trying to support other members.
Discuss opinions, information and beliefs only in appropriate parts of the forum (which is outside of any support threads).
This applies to everyone on this forum who has any strong opinion on any topic.
This is not my personal opinion, it's the official policy of moderating WrongPlanet.net.

Thank you.


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badRobot
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26 Oct 2021, 3:40 am

magz wrote:
Indeed, I expect you to agree to disagree when trying to support other members.
Discuss opinions, information and beliefs only in appropriate parts of the forum (which is outside of any support threads).
This applies to everyone on this forum who has any strong opinion on any topic.
This is not my personal opinion, it's the official policy of moderating WrongPlanet.net.


Have any OP ever specifically asked you to prevent my further participation in their threads because they asked me to leave them alone, but their request was ignored by me?

I don't recall anyone ever asking me to leave their thread.

Narrative you use to justify you actions is delusional. No people ever were harmed by my actions offering my advice. No person ever asked me to leave their threads. Every time there was some long ongoing discussion on this subject, it was a mutually initiated/accepted debate in appropriate parts of the forum. You have no right to show up to tell me to stop providing my points just because these points don't align with your beliefs. Disagreements are OK, debates are ongoing disagreements.

You are saying you are doing it to prevent drama, but in reality, every time there is anything like drama involving myself and my opinion, it always involves you and couple other members being hostile against me over this delusional narrative.



magz
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26 Oct 2021, 4:09 am

The accusations you are making against me are examples of personal attacks that are not allowed on WrongPlanet.net.


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badRobot
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26 Oct 2021, 4:10 am

magz wrote:
The accusations you are making against me are examples of personal attacks that are not allowed on WrongPlanet.net.


Have any OP ever specifically asked you to prevent my further participation in their threads because they asked me to leave them alone, but their request was ignored by me?

And again, criticizing some actions I find questionable is not a personal attack.



Last edited by badRobot on 26 Oct 2021, 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

badRobot
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26 Oct 2021, 4:15 am

magz wrote:
Ask all the people who asked you to leave their The Haven threads weather you made them uncomfortable or not.

This is narrative in your head.

In reality no OP ever asked me to leave their thread. If you believe otherwise and act out of this belief, how would you call it?



magz
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26 Oct 2021, 4:23 am

badRobot wrote:
Have any OP ever specifically asked you to prevent my further participation in their threads because they asked me to leave them alone, but their request was ignored by me?

Imagine I have too much work to keep record on who reports what - because this is irrelevant. I see members fighting, I intervene.
The rules have been explained. They apply to everyone. You are allowed to post only within them.


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badRobot
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26 Oct 2021, 4:32 am

magz wrote:
badRobot wrote:
Have any OP ever specifically asked you to prevent my further participation in their threads because they asked me to leave them alone, but their request was ignored by me?

Imagine I have too much work to keep record on who reports what - because this is irrelevant. I see members fighting, I intervene.

In other words, NO.

magz wrote:
The rules have been explained. They apply to everyone. You are allowed to post only within them.


I do not break any rules.



badRobot
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26 Oct 2021, 4:40 am

Again, this is narrative in your head.

magz wrote:
Ask all the people who asked you to leave their The Haven threads weather you made them uncomfortable or not.


In reality no OP ever asked me to leave their thread. If you believe otherwise and act out of this belief, how would you call it?

You really don't see that it is you who starts a very real drama and hurts very real people in attempts to prevent some hypothetical drama and to protect some imaginary "all the people"?



magz
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26 Oct 2021, 4:46 am

If you don't see responses like "will you leave?" or complains on your behavior as asking you to leave, then you should start.

You do break rules against personal attacks by accusations similar to those you're casting at me now.


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26 Oct 2021, 4:59 am

magz wrote:
If you don't see responses like "will you leave?" or complains on your behavior as asking you to leave, then you should start.

This happens only in instances of real drama you or couple other members here start by attacking my opinion. I have never seen any complaints of my behavior except from you and these very members in these very arguments you start over hypothetical scenarios in your head and imaginary people I hurt. And now you bring up results of your and these members actions as examples of MY behavior?

NONE of that would happen without your ungrounded hostility over some imaginary scenarios.

magz wrote:
You do break rules against personal attacks by accusations similar to those you're casting at me now.


No I don't.

Quote:
Attacking an opinion, belief or philosophy is acceptable, but attacking the person making the comments is not.



magz
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26 Oct 2021, 5:15 am

We've had this conversation before, over similar accusations of delusional thinking you made about a different user. I really have more patience when I am the one attacked.
You repeat the same arguments and pick the same fight. I don't know, maybe you genuinely believe it's impossible you ever did anything harmful. If true, then reconsider the concept of delusional thinking. If not, accept moderation.

Thank you. Over and out - I have different duties than this conversation. Have a nice day.


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badRobot
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26 Oct 2021, 5:22 am

magz wrote:
We've had this conversation before, over similar accusations of delusional thinking you made about a different user. I really have more patience when I am the one attacked.
You repeat the same arguments and pick the same fight. I don't know, maybe you genuinely believe it's impossible you ever did anything harmful. If true, then reconsider the concept of delusional thinking. If not, accept moderation.

Thank you. Over and out - I have different duties than this conversation. Have a nice day.


- You are insensitive monster! Your behavior is horrible! You hurt people! Ask all the people who asked you to leave!
- Can you name one person who asked me to leave? Who did I hurt? Why you think my behavior is horrible?
- If I throw you a fish, would you leave?
- No one ever asked me to leave, I don't believe my behavior is horrible. Can you name one person or give me example of horrible behavior?
- Ha!! !! What about "If I throw you a fish, would you leave?" are you stupid? And being demanding asking for evidence of your horrible behavior is the best example of your horrible behavior!

Yeah, so much for "all the people who asked me to leave". If you actually unable to see absurdity of this argument, this is what delusional is by definition.



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26 Oct 2021, 8:30 am

Thank you, Magz, for handling this thread so well.



Fireblossom
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26 Oct 2021, 10:06 am

Whoa, you guys have been busy.

badRobot wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I'd suggest the location of a thread is a strong indication of what the poster is after. If one wants primarily advice there's multiple subforums for that, one of which will likely be suitable for their post. If they're posting in The Haven they're communicating that support is desired.


Good point. When I started using the forum, I stayed clear of the Haven (and PPR), not even reading anything here, due to the rules here seeming complicated compared to the rest of the forum. Maybe I should return to that policy.


I don't find this approach correct in general. This is a moral dilemma. Depressed poster always after confirmation of their negative beliefs, this is vicious circle of depression. Blindly and unconditionally following this approach means a lot of people end up stuck in "The Haven" forever without any hope to improve.


I definitely see where you're coming from, but I think I personally don't have much of a responsibility over the other users here. What I do have is the responsibility to follow the rules if I stick around.

The way I see it, if one doesn't like the rules of the community they're in, be it online or in real life, they have three options:
1. Grit their teeth and follow the rules anyway
2. Leave
3. Try to discuss and negotiate about possible better rules with those in charge

In an ideal world I'd use option 3 all the time, but more often than not it's like talking to a brick wall, so I tend to use options 1 and 2.

In the Haven's case I haven't really bothered with option 3 'cause while I don't entirely agree with the rules and don't see them serving the needs for peer support that I have, they seem to serve more people than they bother so I don't want to make things more complicated. Therefore, when it comes to the Haven, it's option 1 for me, and 2 if it gets too stressing at some point. I can still use the rest of the forum even if I ditch the Haven.



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26 Oct 2021, 10:08 am

That's how I see it



Fnord
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26 Oct 2021, 10:10 am

Fireblossom wrote:
... The way I see it, if one doesn't like the rules of the community they're in, be it online or in real life, they have three options:
1. Grit their teeth and follow the rules anyway
2. Leave
3. Try to discuss and negotiate about possible better rules with those in charge

...
Option 4: Offer well-intended suggestions that might improve things for all concerned, even if it means conforming to those rules yourself.

It is kinda fun to see the mods implement helpful guidelines that I have suggested -- a little ego-boost goes a long way!