Seriously, why is there so much Misogyny on WrongPlanet?!

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IsabellaLinton
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26 Mar 2023, 12:28 pm

I think it should be in L&D because that's what it's about, for the most part.
Another option would be Mod Attention, especially if we want to rewrite some rules.



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26 Mar 2023, 12:35 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
KitLily wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
So...just dont go there. I avoid it.
I don’t think people should have to avoid a forum because of misogyny, especially if it’s one they want to post in. It’s not at all fair to women who struggle with romance too. Those who regularly write misogynistic posts/threads shouldn’t be allowed to run the show which has been a large part of the problem in L&D, I believe. I think people should just report harmful posts and/or create discussions that are more female-friendly.


^^this. Exactly right *clapping*

Saying 'don't go into that forum' is the online equivalent of saying 'women shouldn't walk in certain areas because it's dangerous for them.' How is that fair? We deserve to go where we want and places should be made safe for everyone.


I remember at one point being told not to go into PPR. While I appreciate the sentiment and the warning, I thought that was really unfortunate because I studied Philosophy but I couldn't discuss it in an informed, academic way without certain members acting like it was a no holds barred political street fight, or making it about an American election at that time. I don't like discussing politics and don't follow politics apart from political philosophy but no one was into that. It seemed that people thought the rules didn't apply if I stepped into PPR because the mentality was "enter at your own risk" (??) even though it's governed by the same rules as WP and actually has even more specific or defined rules against bullying, harassment, and personal attacks. My thought was that PPR shouldn't be "enter at your own risk", if the rules were enforced as written. I don't go there much anymore but I think things have possibly (possibly ?!) improved in the last three years.

As for L&D, my point with this ^ is that L&D has earned the same bad reputation for becoming a bloodbath. I think that's regrettable because it could be a helpful resource for people of all genders or with all types of relationship history to support each other. I think CF and the mods have done an excellent job with damage control but it's an ongoing effort as we've all seen, and we all have to be vigilant about keeping sexist or harmful attitudes in check by reporting and following up if we aren't satisfied with the outcome, or if the person continues. Ideally I think all the "I can't get a date with a woman" threads should be combined into one area with a sticky of advice. Those people do have a right to support and their feelings / mental health matter as much as anyone else, provided they aren't being hostile toward women or espousing any political ideology which would be against the rules.

There are lots of other dating topics relevant in L&D. I've tried to start a few, like the one about Disagreements, and one about Narcissists & Liars. Is the Red Flag thread in L&D? (Probably -- sorry, should check.) I'd love to see "Dating after Divorce", "Dating after Trauma", "Dating as a Single Parent", etc. as well as tips on cohabitation, marriage, breakups, divorce, etc. Dating is a lot more complex than "How to meet a girl". Trans and NB members should be comfortable in L&D as well without being corralled into the LGBTQ+ subforum, which isn't necessarily about dating. We had a new member (sorry their name escapes me) who is NB, but felt uncomfortable in L&D. Actually I suppose they're the OP of this thread (silly me!) The fact that they came to WP and were confronted with blatant misogyny is really troubling. It says a lot about our public reputation and the future of this site if we sit back and think nothing can be done. CF is onboard so I hope this thread serves as a wake-up call that we won't tolerate sexist or transphobic ideology against any member of Wrong Planet.

I'd be happy to help write specific rules for L&D if CF is interested in an update. I invite anyone else to contribute as well, including the OP. It would be great to represent a range of voices including all genders and orientations. That's not to be political or malign any existing members, but to support the ones who may be too intimidated to speak up.
Hey, it's alright if you didn't remember my username, I don't always remember everyone's usernames on here, either!! :P :oops: Sometimes all I have to go on to jog my memory is a pfp, and that can do the trick!! :lol: Seriously, though, thank you for mentioning me and bringing up my concerns, that was really kind of you!! And big thanks to Cornflake, the moderator, too!! He's been a huge help in bringing up the rules for the haven, since I'm still pretty new here and don't entirely know how WrongPlanet works yet, hehehe!! :o :D :) :mrgreen:



BraveFig
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26 Mar 2023, 12:38 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I think it should be in L&D because that's what it's about, for the most part.
Another option would be Mod Attention, especially if we want to rewrite some rules.

Good thinking!! Tbh, Idk which one would be more appropriate, but both sound like good choices, tho!! :o :D :)



longshot
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26 Mar 2023, 3:23 pm

I'll state for the record that, I've never posted in the L & D forum, as I've not been in actual relationship literally since 1997; and even from that period I've never taken out my hostilities or grievances towards any women.. Many of the social scenarios which, I have failed out have been my own doing, and even when there has been circumstances not pertaining to me, I don't point fingers at others. I, myself try to maintain a sense of honor and compassion..



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27 Mar 2023, 9:15 am

I have a theory.

Since we're forbidden from saying guys have it harder than gals when it comes to dating, I won't say that. Here's what I will say, however: Guys on the spectrum have a harder time than neurotypical guys when it comes to dating. As a result, a lot of guys on the spectrum might go misogynist in frustration (over his failures with women)



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27 Mar 2023, 9:37 am

And in the process they're shooting themselves in the foot.

SkinnyElephant wrote:
Guys on the spectrum ... might go misogynist in frustration (over his failures with women)



KitLily
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27 Mar 2023, 10:51 am

jimmyjazzuk wrote:
There are feminist forums that are toxic. I think the internet makes people angry and discontent and its natural to blame the 'other'. Often i have to check myself in order not to become the thing i dislike. To remember there are people on the other end of the internet cable. Its all a big waste of time anyway, resentment just breeds more resentment.


This is true. It's just that men tend to be in more positions of power and so their voices get listened to more. As you say, we need to check ourselves sometimes.


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MaxE
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27 Mar 2023, 11:54 am

To me this exemplifies the inherent problem with running an autism forum. Consider a forum for deaf people. They share roughly the same experience and occur in equal numbers by gender. Not saying it doesn't exist, but I doubt misogyny is anywhere near the level of concern on such a site. I have reason to believe deaf people prefer to be in relationships with other deaf people. Whereas not only are women here struggling with misogyny in general but specifically on the part of men on WP i.e. autistic men, as a consequence WP is not a safe space for them.

I don't think there'll ever be a way to have a civilized discussion here of this topic.

I suggest some new rules. This topic should be forbidden on WP except in the Women's Forum. In addition, anything said on WP can be reported as misogynistic on the strength of that accusation i.e. it's deemed misogynistic if reported as such by anyone, and will be removed.

EDIT I mentioned relationships because this issue seems to mostly apply to the L&D forum even though this thread was created in the Haven.


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The Grand Inquisitor
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27 Mar 2023, 1:08 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Ideally I think all the "I can't get a date with a woman" threads should be combined into one area

As someone who would be affected by this potential change, I don't like this idea at all. Putting our threads behind an extra subfolder can only decrease their visibility. Why?

It's kind of otherising, as if people are sick of hearing our issues so we're relegated to a niche side-pocket of the site that people are less likely to click on

Most threads in L&D consist of recurring themes anyway. I don't see why the "I can't get a girlfriend" threads are different enough to warrant a different location.



Last edited by The Grand Inquisitor on 27 Mar 2023, 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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27 Mar 2023, 3:44 pm

MaxE wrote:
In addition, anything said on WP can be reported as misogynistic on the strength of that accusation i.e. it's deemed misogynistic if reported as such by anyone, and will be removed.
That's pretty much what happens already (except it's not necessarily an automatic post removal: any report is examined in context first), with valuable input from our female members - who would understand better than me, a mere male, what misogyny looks like.


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cyberdad
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27 Mar 2023, 3:54 pm

As somebody who voluntarily chosen not to post in L&D. I see there is a risk to not allow people to share their emotions/thoughts as with stifling other forms of thinking by banning or removing it

I myself don't think in a way that can be described as misogynistic but in recounting my 20 year old self and how it transformed it may provide an important role model for young men here on WP a life lesson not to go through what I went through. Perhaps the choice of words might be inflammatory (I accept that) but why is it wrong to share authentic experiences?



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27 Mar 2023, 4:12 pm

cyberdad wrote:
why is it wrong to share authentic experiences?
It's not wrong, but the way in which they're described WRT relationships often is.


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rse92
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27 Mar 2023, 4:27 pm

I think a lot of what some people find to be misogyny here is not exactly that. It exists here, but I've also seen the term used to try to shut down, or shut up, honest debate.



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27 Mar 2023, 4:50 pm

That's taken into account with any report on any topic.
It's never a case of someone simply saying a comment is misogynistic and bam, the post is gone.


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IsabellaLinton
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27 Mar 2023, 5:10 pm

The Grand Inquisitor wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Ideally I think all the "I can't get a date with a woman" threads should be combined into one area

As someone who would be affected by this potential change, I don't like this idea at all. Putting our threads behind an extra subfolder can only decrease their visibility. Why?

It's kind of otherising, as if people are sick of hearing our issues so we're relegated to a niche side-pocket of the site that people are less likely click on

Most threads in L&D consist of recurring themes anyway. I don't see why the "I can't get a girlfriend" threads are different enough to warrant a different location.


Perhaps I worded that a little clumsily. I didn't mean it should all be in its own subforum away from L&D. Of course your struggles are relevant to L&D and for a lot of autistic men (and women ... and people). What I was suggesting was for there to be a big "support thread" on that topic within L&D, with resources available. I didn't mean it should just be a sticky, since people seldom read stickies. I mean the thread can be there with resources linked to a sticky.

The issue of male mental health is very important to me, and I think you know I've done a lot to try and help or support men here whether it's with dating, self-esteem, sexual assault, gender identity, or any issue of equal rights. You know I speak up against misandry (in fact I used to see misandry even more than misogyny, and I said so repeatedly.) Maybe there are too many of you to be put into one thread because it would be hundreds of pages long. I get that. I'm not sure what the solution is, but at the same time it isn't fair that the entire L&D is known as a place for men to lament their loneliness. It has that stereotype, even though LOVE is a huge topic on its own not just with regard to finding love, and DATING means ... actually dating -- which is very difficult to navigate once it starts. The subforum isn't called "Wanting Love and Not Dating". I'm sorry if that sounds sarcastic because that wasn't my intent, but it's true. I think it should be a subforum for all aspects of LOVE and all aspects of DATING or relationships, in their many stages.

People like yourself who have specific mental health struggles on the topic can still use The Haven for individual advice, so I don't think anyone would be ignored or brushed aside.

Those are just my thoughts anyway. Everyone is welcome to share theirs, since I'm certainly not in charge of L&D and don't want to pretend I am.



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27 Mar 2023, 5:36 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Im a guy, and I sidestep L+D as much as I can, and I was addressing everyone of any gender.

But yes...it should be a resource available to anyone.

But the mods already do a lot of their work there, and it doesn't help.


I came here initially because I needed a break from PPR.
And I am very much into psychology.
I found this forum fascinating.