Seriously, why is there so much Misogyny on WrongPlanet?!

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cyberdad
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31 Mar 2023, 3:24 am

Rexi's point that 20% of single men get most single women is perhaps the crux of the current situation in western society which crosses borders and eras (this was a problem as far back as the 1990s)

The issue is how does one offer solutions to young men without being labelled a misogynist



DuckHairback
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31 Mar 2023, 5:51 am

cyberdad wrote:
Rexi's point that 20% of single men get most single women is perhaps the crux of the current situation in western society which crosses borders and eras (this was a problem as far back as the 1990s)

The issue is how does one offer solutions to young men without being labelled a misogynist


Where does this statistic come from? When I read that in Rexi's post I assumed it was some kind of mistake.

And what do we mean by 'get' women? Sleeping with them, or being in a relationship with them? Because if it's the former, once you 'get' a woman, she doesn't remain 'got'. If she's not in relationship then she's presumably available? Or is she just waiting for one of those lucky 20% of guys to have a free slot where he can fit her in?

Because unless there are 20% of guys who are currently managing harems of 5 women each, at any given time there must be somewhere near 80% of women who are unattached. Maths isn't my strong point but something here isn't adding up for me.

It's so dumb. I've written this before but people don't want to hear it. GO OUTSIDE. Sit in a town for an hour or two and just look at people. Look at the couples you see. Look at the guys who seem to have female partners. They're not all good looking. In fact MOST of them are not good looking. Believe your eyes. And that doesn't mean they must be rich. Some of them are just nice people to be around.

Some people are saying that the misogyny starts when men are rejected by the women they approach and they see other men having success where they've failed. But it seems to me that the misogyny is starting way before that, in the attitudes to what 'getting' a woman means. In some of the L&D threads it really comes across that some guys see getting a woman as some kind of validation, some kind of relief from their sexual frustrations, some kind of box they can tick to say they're no longer a virgin. These can, I suppose, be fringe benefits, but they shouldn't be the main attraction. And what person would want to be those things primarily to someone else?

It just seems to me that some guys have fundamentally misunderstood the reason for having a partner and instead of questioning their attitudes and making themselves more attractive (no, not necessarily going to the gym and getting a job) they blame women or 20% of other men for taking more than their share.


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31 Mar 2023, 5:52 am

cyberdad wrote:
Rexi's point that 20% of single men get most single women is perhaps the crux of the current situation in western society which crosses borders and eras (this was a problem as far back as the 1990s)

The issue is how does one offer solutions to young men without being labelled a misogynist


Dude, I'm tired of hearing that because it's mathematically impossible, considering that men and women make up about roughly 50% of the population each.



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31 Mar 2023, 5:55 am

DuckHairback wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Rexi's point that 20% of single men get most single women is perhaps the crux of the current situation in western society which crosses borders and eras (this was a problem as far back as the 1990s)

The issue is how does one offer solutions to young men without being labelled a misogynist


Where does this statistic come from? When I read that in Rexi's post I assumed it was some kind of mistake.

And what do we mean by 'get' women? Sleeping with them, or being in a relationship with them? Because if it's the former, once you 'get' a woman, she doesn't remain 'got'. If she's not in relationship then she's presumably available? Or is she just waiting for one of those lucky 20% of guys to have a free slot where he can fit her in?

Because unless there are 20% of guys who are currently managing harems of 5 women each, at any given time there must be somewhere near 80% of women who are unattached. Maths isn't my strong point but something here isn't adding up for me.

It's so dumb. I've written this before but people don't want to hear it. GO OUTSIDE. Sit in a town for an hour or two and just look at people. Look at the couples you see. Look at the guys who seem to have female partners. They're not all good looking. In fact MOST of them are not good looking. Believe your eyes. And that doesn't mean they must be rich. Some of them are just nice people to be around.

Some people are saying that the misogyny starts when men are rejected by the women they approach and they see other men having success where they've failed. But it seems to me that the misogyny is starting way before that, in the attitudes to what 'getting' a woman means. In some of the L&D threads it really comes across that some guys see getting a woman as some kind of validation, some kind of relief from their sexual frustrations, some kind of box they can tick to say they're no longer a virgin. These can, I suppose, be fringe benefits, but they shouldn't be the main attraction. And what person would want to be those things primarily to someone else?

It just seems to me that some guys have fundamentally misunderstood the reason for having a partner and instead of questioning their attitudes and making themselves more attractive (no, not necessarily going to the gym and getting a job) they blame women or 20% of other men for taking more than their share.


Yes, such a statistic is completely impossible even if you're just talking about having sex rather than being in committed relationships.



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31 Mar 2023, 6:08 am

DuckHairback wrote:
...Some people are saying that the misogyny starts when men are rejected by the women they approach and they see other men having success where they've failed. But it seems to me that the misogyny is starting way before that, in the attitudes to what 'getting' a woman means. In some of the L&D threads it really comes across that some guys see getting a woman as some kind of validation, some kind of relief from their sexual frustrations, some kind of box they can tick to say they're no longer a virgin. These can, I suppose, be fringe benefits, but they shouldn't be the main attraction. And what person would want to be those things primarily to someone else?

It just seems to me that some guys have fundamentally misunderstood the reason for having a partner and instead of questioning their attitudes and making themselves more attractive (no, not necessarily going to the gym and getting a job) they blame women or 20% of other men for taking more than their share.

These men literally behave as if they view women as just f**k sleeves and as if they desire nothing else out of them than sex, and behave completely f*****g unhinged around women due to it (AKA every single woman they see they say they want to f**k, and will basically start eventually sexually harassing them and pressuring them to give into them if they actually get to talk to them), and then throw tantrums when women aren't attracted to and give into that s**t. But no, it's all women's fault and the fake ass "20% of men" who supposedly are "stealing" women from them, by, I don't know, not being unhinged and treating women with respect, I guess???



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31 Mar 2023, 6:13 am

DuckHairback wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Rexi's point that 20% of single men get most single women is perhaps the crux of the current situation in western society which crosses borders and eras (this was a problem as far back as the 1990s)

The issue is how does one offer solutions to young men without being labelled a misogynist


Where does this statistic come from? When I read that in Rexi's post I assumed it was some kind of mistake.

And what do we mean by 'get' women? Sleeping with them, or being in a relationship with them? Because if it's the former, once you 'get' a woman, she doesn't remain 'got'. If she's not in relationship then she's presumably available? Or is she just waiting for one of those lucky 20% of guys to have a free slot where he can fit her in?

Because unless there are 20% of guys who are currently managing harems of 5 women each, at any given time there must be somewhere near 80% of women who are unattached. Maths isn't my strong point but something here isn't adding up for me.

It's so dumb. I've written this before but people don't want to hear it. GO OUTSIDE. Sit in a town for an hour or two and just look at people. Look at the couples you see. Look at the guys who seem to have female partners. They're not all good looking. In fact MOST of them are not good looking. Believe your eyes. And that doesn't mean they must be rich. Some of them are just nice people to be around.

Some people are saying that the misogyny starts when men are rejected by the women they approach and they see other men having success where they've failed. But it seems to me that the misogyny is starting way before that, in the attitudes to what 'getting' a woman means. In some of the L&D threads it really comes across that some guys see getting a woman as some kind of validation, some kind of relief from their sexual frustrations, some kind of box they can tick to say they're no longer a virgin. These can, I suppose, be fringe benefits, but they shouldn't be the main attraction. And what person would want to be those things primarily to someone else?

It just seems to me that some guys have fundamentally misunderstood the reason for having a partner and instead of questioning their attitudes and making themselves more attractive (no, not necessarily going to the gym and getting a job) they blame women or 20% of other men for taking more than their share.

"Or is she just waiting for one of those lucky 20% of guys to have a free slot where he can fit her in?" - personally I got too many dates in the past since a very young age and it has messed with my health. I'm also dating Pepe rn, so I'm not waiting. Neither was I ever when single.

I'm not talking about myself.

That's what some men believe. On dating sites it's more male centered for sure (something to do with risk taking deters women), I have only visited lesbian dating sites.


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31 Mar 2023, 6:14 am

Fairfield wrote:
DuckHairback wrote:
...Some people are saying that the misogyny starts when men are rejected by the women they approach and they see other men having success where they've failed. But it seems to me that the misogyny is starting way before that, in the attitudes to what 'getting' a woman means. In some of the L&D threads it really comes across that some guys see getting a woman as some kind of validation, some kind of relief from their sexual frustrations, some kind of box they can tick to say they're no longer a virgin. These can, I suppose, be fringe benefits, but they shouldn't be the main attraction. And what person would want to be those things primarily to someone else?

It just seems to me that some guys have fundamentally misunderstood the reason for having a partner and instead of questioning their attitudes and making themselves more attractive (no, not necessarily going to the gym and getting a job) they blame women or 20% of other men for taking more than their share.

These men literally behave as if they view women as just f**k sleeves and as if they desire nothing else out of them than sex, and behave completely f*****g unhinged around women due to it (AKA every single woman they see they say they want to f**k, and will basically start eventually sexually harassing them and pressuring them to give into them if they actually get to talk to them), and then throw tantrums when women aren't attracted to and give into that s**t. But no, it's all women's fault and the fake ass "20% of men" who supposedly are "stealing" women from them, by, I don't know, not being unhinged and treating women with respect, I guess???


There are very few FERAL incels in L&D these days.
I heard it was a BIG problem before I started reading the posts there.



DuckHairback
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31 Mar 2023, 6:19 am

Fairfield wrote:
These men literally behave as if they view women as just f**k sleeves and as if they desire nothing else out of them than sex, and behave completely f*****g unhinged around women due to it (AKA every single woman they see they say they want to f**k, and will basically start eventually sexually harassing them and pressuring them to give into them if they actually get to talk to them), and then throw tantrums when women aren't attracted to and give into that s**t. But no, it's all women's fault and the fake ass "20% of men" who supposedly are "stealing" women from them, by, I don't know, not being unhinged and treating women with respect, I guess???


I think, if you tend to evaluate women purely on their looks and their value to you as a sexual partner, then it's probably easy to assume that women evaluate men purely on superficialities as well, and that's why the 20% with good bodies/high salaries/nice cars getting all the women thing sounds plausible to some.


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Rexi
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31 Mar 2023, 6:33 am

Rexi wrote:
DuckHairback wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Rexi's point that 20% of single men get most single women is perhaps the crux of the current situation in western society which crosses borders and eras (this was a problem as far back as the 1990s)

The issue is how does one offer solutions to young men without being labelled a misogynist


Where does this statistic come from? When I read that in Rexi's post I assumed it was some kind of mistake.

And what do we mean by 'get' women? Sleeping with them, or being in a relationship with them? Because if it's the former, once you 'get' a woman, she doesn't remain 'got'. If she's not in relationship then she's presumably available? Or is she just waiting for one of those lucky 20% of guys to have a free slot where he can fit her in?

Because unless there are 20% of guys who are currently managing harems of 5 women each, at any given time there must be somewhere near 80% of women who are unattached. Maths isn't my strong point but something here isn't adding up for me.

It's so dumb. I've written this before but people don't want to hear it. GO OUTSIDE. Sit in a town for an hour or two and just look at people. Look at the couples you see. Look at the guys who seem to have female partners. They're not all good looking. In fact MOST of them are not good looking. Believe your eyes. And that doesn't mean they must be rich. Some of them are just nice people to be around.

Some people are saying that the misogyny starts when men are rejected by the women they approach and they see other men having success where they've failed. But it seems to me that the misogyny is starting way before that, in the attitudes to what 'getting' a woman means. In some of the L&D threads it really comes across that some guys see getting a woman as some kind of validation, some kind of relief from their sexual frustrations, some kind of box they can tick to say they're no longer a virgin. These can, I suppose, be fringe benefits, but they shouldn't be the main attraction. And what person would want to be those things primarily to someone else?

It just seems to me that some guys have fundamentally misunderstood the reason for having a partner and instead of questioning their attitudes and making themselves more attractive (no, not necessarily going to the gym and getting a job) they blame women or 20% of other men for taking more than their share.

"Or is she just waiting for one of those lucky 20% of guys to have a free slot where he can fit her in?" - personally I got too many dates in the past since a very young age and it has messed with my health. I'm also dating Pepe rn, so I'm not waiting. Neither was I ever when single.

I'm not talking about myself.

That's what some men believe. On dating sites it's more male centered for sure (something to do with risk taking deters women), I have only visited lesbian dating sites.

We've gotta keep in mind men here are also on the spectrum and some can barely make 1 friend in a lifetime, and good impressions on first dates don't come naturally, the opposite, so their hopes are probably even lower than the hopes of NT men who had relative success, because of these things.


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31 Mar 2023, 6:35 am

Rexi wrote:
We've gotta keep in mind men here are also on the spectrum and some can barely make 1 friend in a lifetime, and good impressions on first dates don't come naturally, the opposite, so their hopes are probably even lower than the hopes of NT men who had relative success, because of these things.


I thought it a simple fact that most men on the spectrum don't find a partner.



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31 Mar 2023, 6:52 am

Rexi wrote:
We've gotta keep in mind men here are also on the spectrum and some can barely make 1 friend in a lifetime, and good impressions on first dates don't come naturally, the opposite, so their hopes are probably even lower than the hopes of NT men who had relative success, because of these things.


Yeah, you're right and it's really unfortunate. I guess I'm lucky because I did find a partner, but I was a virgin until 23 so I do know something about sexual frustration and the difficulty of finding love. I was friends with my partner for 4 years before she was ready to consider me a romantic partner. Friends first is a very valuable approach, particularly for ASD people because you get past the superficialities.

But I think it's also important, and it might even be something that can be mitigated to some extent, if autistic men are encouraged to think about what it means to be in a relationship - that there is a purpose there beyond sex and procreation. They might even find themselves enjoying non-sexual aspects of a relationship that they didn't imagine they would, or weren't aware existed.

The problem with incel and these various 'pill' ideologies is that they don't seem to encourage this at all. They seem to encourage what seems to me a wrong-headed way of thinking about male/female relationships in general. They put men and women in opposition to each other and reject commonality. It seems to me to be a victim mentality where men have stronger desires than women, and that makes women the gatekeepers of male satisfaction. That's just going to lead to misogyny.


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31 Mar 2023, 7:29 am

DuckHairback wrote:
Rexi wrote:
We've gotta keep in mind men here are also on the spectrum and some can barely make 1 friend in a lifetime, and good impressions on first dates don't come naturally, the opposite, so their hopes are probably even lower than the hopes of NT men who had relative success, because of these things.


Yeah, you're right and it's really unfortunate. I guess I'm lucky because I did find a partner, but I was a virgin until 23 so I do know something about sexual frustration and the difficulty of finding love. I was friends with my partner for 4 years before she was ready to consider me a romantic partner. Friends first is a very valuable approach, particularly for ASD people because you get past the superficialities.

But I think it's also important, and it might even be something that can be mitigated to some extent, if autistic men are encouraged to think about what it means to be in a relationship - that there is a purpose there beyond sex and procreation. They might even find themselves enjoying non-sexual aspects of a relationship that they didn't imagine they would, or weren't aware existed.

The problem with incel and these various 'pill' ideologies is that they don't seem to encourage this at all. They seem to encourage what seems to me a wrong-headed way of thinking about male/female relationships in general. They put men and women in opposition to each other and reject commonality. It seems to me to be a victim mentality where men have stronger desires than women, and that makes women the gatekeepers of male satisfaction. That's just going to lead to misogyny.


The pills are only a part of a person's beliefs, each individual is different. Some don't even have pill ideologies. That's why I proposed the community is important, sharing points and experience, as well as support because sometimes this can even lead to suicide ideation or other problems. I don't believe showing hostility or discrimination to these people especially in the haven would pay off to anyone. It's not impossible to understand the humanity and problems of the others.


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31 Mar 2023, 7:53 am

I've been asked about statistics and I've been warned I will be thrown off this forum.

The world's largest survey of men and women evert undertaken was by Pew Research who in 2020 surveyed single American men and women
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-tren ... americans/

There are two interesting statistics
1.63% of men under 30 describe themselves as single, compared with 34% of women in the same age group.
2.Never-married single men and women are about equally likely to have never been in a relationship (35% and 37%, respectively).

the number that's most interesting is 37% of women whom have never been in a relationship. When cross reference that against women who are single it provides some scary news for single men

If 34% of women are single (not attached) and in the same survey 37% have never been in a relationship it means
a) nearly 2/3 women are not single
b) the other third have never been in a relationship (but here's the question, do they want to be in a relationship with just any man? or are they waiting for a "high value man"?

Now in my experience I have come across a lot of single women who are highly selective about whom they sleep with but choose not to be in a relationship. In sharp contrast the single men I come across all desperately want a partner.

This would suggest there is 1 in 3 men who are likely never going to find love (this number has been verified in numerous publications) and as time goes the situation is only going to get worse. If you want to see the future, then look at Japan where at the moment 42% of men are virgins
https://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/20/asia ... index.html

Again I am not sure why I have been called a misogynist for merely reporting what is fact



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31 Mar 2023, 8:16 am

It's easy to think that you are right, knowledgeable, but it pays off listening to a different experience or pov and not taking it personally. That comes with different views.

People should not be calling each other such things, which is far more weighty than posting statistics in an invite to discuss. Also if misinterpretation of intent is a thing, then you should be able to explain what you mean and be taken just as seriously for it for your case. That's not protecting each other and the only ones capable of offering proper protection are the mods.

I know these things can be taken the wrong way, but I can understand dating isn't easy for men. As a woman, I don't feel a need to reject the statistics or the hardships of men.


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31 Mar 2023, 8:30 am

Quote:
Now in my experience I have come across a lot of single women who are highly selective about whom they sleep with but choose not to be in a relationship. In sharp contrast the single men I come across all desperately want a partner
People can be highly selective and still really want a partner or relationship. Some have learned, through experience, that there are far worse things than being single which could make them more selective when it comes to future partners.

People often share statistics without fully appreciating the nuances behind them.

Many people live lives of quiet desperation. Just because they aren’t complaining about it doesn’t mean the feelings aren’t there. Expecting someone else to fill a void is problematic IMO.


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Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 31 Mar 2023, 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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31 Mar 2023, 8:33 am



If I got called something often enough that it became a problem, I'd take a closer look at my own self, first...